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Trojan

Smith slags off the current format

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If the game does go back to licencing, that'll be it for me.  I'll watch Shaw Cross and forget about the pro game.  And I won't be on my own.  One sure way to kill off clubs like Fev, and eventually the game is to go back to licencing.  I think a lot of the game's current ills can be traced back to licencing.  Our poor international performances, the lack of interest by neutrals in Wembley finals, and the general disenchantment with the game, as expressed in the letter to LE the other week.

Edited by Trojan
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I'm not going to bother addressing some of the specific points you made as it's been done a thousand times over. However I will make one point that I hope you don't take as a personal insult but rather as a reality check it's intended to be.

The loss of your support and the small number of fans who would do as you threaten, would be far less of a blow to the sport of RL than the loss of the Catalan Dragons, to take just one of the current potential outcomes of P&R.

Edited by damp squib
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Whilst I don't agree with some of Tony Smiths points it is refreshing to see a coach feel free to express his honest views - I guess as a result of the fact that he's leaving 

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Think he contradicts himself a bit about Licensing and then mentions the Crusaders set up. And licensing saw many problems as for me there was no transparency and some Clubs lied etc and shouldnt have been given a licence.

I do think we need minimum standards brought back. We now have clubs running around in SL with No Reserve grade or Academy teams and wonder why players have poor standards. We have players sat on the side line for months who then get to play a game and wonder why they didnt go so well. Players need to be playing regularly and put to the test at a level for them and then the failings worked on in training. Currently we have nothing like this and wonder why the standards are poor. How does this help prepare England players both now and in the future?

However I do agree with a lot of what he says. The Super 8s is not a great system in my opinion, as the Part timers struggle to win despite often putting up great performances. It seems the 8s are a way to have hopefully a bit of excitement in the MPG, but the others games are nothing games really.

We rarely see a high quality game. We see exciting SL games now and then, but the standards are poor and compared to the NRL way off. How often are the top players forced into a tough intense game? You look at the NRL and most games players are pushed to the limits and players/teams are forced to do something special to win especially in the playoffs. Teams playing each other 4 or even more times a year I feel dilutes the atmosphere. 

I would just have home and away with 1 team going down. The team coming up though must meet the minimum standards but then so should all teams in SL. Those that fail would be relegated. More should be made about the League Winners, as think Cas winning it has largely been brushed over. I would just have a top 4 - 1v4 and 2 v3 and winners GF at Old Trafford

Edited by Lounge Room Lizard
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54 minutes ago, damp squib said:

I'm not going to bother addressing some of the specific points you made as it's been done a thousand times over. However I will make one point that I hope you don't take as a personal insult but rather as a reality check it's intended to be.

The loss of your support and the small number of fans who would do as you threaten, would be far less of a blow to the sport of RL than the loss of the Catalan Dragons, to take just one of the current potential outcomes of P&R.

Do you think it's just Fev fans who feel as I do?  And once the rot starts who knows where it will end.  The current format seems to be going some way to prevent a further attenuation of the game, but those who long for a return to the comfort zone of licencing are selfish and think only of themselves and their own clubs, with no regard for the long term damage being done to the whole game by licencing.  As for poor crowds at Fev and in the Championship generally, they've been declining since the advent of SL.  And the gulf in standards has been widening.  Why?  Because there isn't enough cash to finance a Super League and a competitive Championship.  Super League has been a disaster for clubs like mine.  But they soldier on through all the hardships.  But once that carrot of promotion is taken away who knows what's next.  Apart from today's debacle and apparently against Widnes, Fev have been competitive in all the Middle 8 games. So have the other non SL sides.  But the greedy barstewards in SL want to go back to their security blanket.

Edited by Trojan
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Lost some respect for Smith this week.

To me he just sounds like someone feeling sorry for himself and who is lashing out and blaming everyone else for his own failure.

Thought he had more class than that.

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Well done Tony....I agree with every word you said. We have players like Daryl Clark and Ben Currie who are some of England's best players preparing to play the Aussies in the world cup by playing against Featherstone and Halifax. That can't be right. 

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3 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Well done Tony....I agree with every word you said. We have players like Daryl Clark and Ben Currie who are some of England's best players preparing to play the Aussies in the world cup by playing against Featherstone and Halifax. That can't be right. 

If they were as good as you say they are they wouldn't be lining up against Featherstone.

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3 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Well done Tony....I agree with every word you said. We have players like Daryl Clark and Ben Currie who are some of England's best players preparing to play the Aussies in the world cup by playing against Featherstone and Halifax. That can't be right. 

And London ;)

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I don't like the current format at all but the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place where it cannot satisfy everyone. I was a fan of licensing but can totally understand the points made by Trojan. I think the main problem is that there just aren't enough 'big' clubs in Rugby League and this makes any solution less than ideal. However for me the current system is certainly not the answer.

My ideal solution would be probably along the lines of having Super League 1 and 2 with 2 up and 2 down with some sort of minimum requirements to get into Super League 2 such as ground, finance, full time playing squad, academy teams etc (Basically have licensing for the top 2 divisions). Hopefully with the rise of Toronto, and hopefully other well backed Canadian\North American teams, and possibly additional French teams this can give the game more bigger and well financed clubs that can make something like this more feasible.

I think in RL there are 3 tiers of club, the big 6 who are well financed and get good crowds, another 8-10 or so that are too big for the Championship but struggle in Super League and basically want the game pegged back to the lowest common denominator, and then the rest that are a combination of part time, have no ground, have periodic financial trouble or are a new club struggling to compete. For me this rest category have no hope of getting into Super League under any system, barring some miraculous change in their fortunes. I'd also say the vast majority of these clubs are very happy to compete against other part time clubs at their own level. Under such a system they could then apply for a place in Super League 2 if they feel like they are up to it and meet the requirements.

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2 hours ago, Trojan said:

If the game does go back to licencing, that'll be it for me.  I'll watch Shaw Cross and forget about the pro game.  And I won't be on my own.  One sure way to kill off clubs like Fev, and eventually the game is to go back to licencing.  I think a lot of the game's current ills can be traced back to licencing.  Our poor international performances, the lack of interest by neutrals in Wembley finals, and the general disenchantment with the game, as expressed in the letter to LE the other week.

Under licensing your club became a stable progressive community based sporting organisation

 

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2 hours ago, Trojan said:

If the game does go back to licencing, that'll be it for me.  I'll watch Shaw Cross and forget about the pro game.  And I won't be on my own.  One sure way to kill off clubs like Fev, and eventually the game is to go back to licencing.  I think a lot of the game's current ills can be traced back to licencing.  Our poor international performances, the lack of interest by neutrals in Wembley finals, and the general disenchantment with the game, as expressed in the letter to LE the other week.

Agreed I prefer promotion and relegation, funny for an Oldham fan who have just been relegated. The licensing thing turns the superleague into a members club effectively. Shuts out other clubs.Its quite simple really, if your good enough you go up,if not you go down.It works in other sports.

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2 hours ago, damp squib said:

I'm not going to bother addressing some of the specific points you made as it's been done a thousand times over. However I will make one point that I hope you don't take as a personal insult but rather as a reality check it's intended to be.

The loss of your support and the small number of fans who would do as you threaten, would be far less of a blow to the sport of RL than the loss of the Catalan Dragons, to take just one of the current potential outcomes of P&R.

I disagree. Firstly it would not just be a small number of fans.

Secondly, Catalans would probably bounce back without loss of core French support. It surprises me that uk fans who fight their corner appear to have little faith in them and their French supporters.

Also, the expansionist fans here in the UK would just switch their interest to another team such as Toronto or Toulouse, whoever is winning. 

 

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21 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

Agreed I prefer promotion and relegation, funny for an Oldham fan who have just been relegated. The licensing thing turns the superleague into a members club effectively. Shuts out other clubs.Its quite simple really, if your good enough you go up,if not you go down.It works in other sports.

After what it did to your club over the years? Don't members clubs admit new members?

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1 minute ago, Niels said:

I disagree. Firstly it would not just be a small number of fans.

Secondly, Catalans would probably bounce back without loss of core French support. It surprises me that uk fans who fight their corner appear to have little faith in them and their French supporters.

Also, the expansionist fans here in the UK would just switch their interest to another team such as Toronto or Toulouse, whoever is winning. 

 

I'm an expansionist fan.

I want all clubs to prosper

I want the sport to grow geographically and demographically

My allegiance is to rugby league.

Your last sentence shows an ignorance of people's motivation and point of view that is very dispiriting.

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4 minutes ago, Niels said:

I disagree. Firstly it would not just be a small number of fans.

Secondly, Catalans would probably bounce back without loss of core French support. It surprises me that uk fans who fight their corner appear to have little faith in them and their French supporters.

Also, the expansionist fans here in the UK would just switch their interest to another team such as Toronto or Toulouse, whoever is winning. 

 

Catalan may bounce back but if they don't it could set RL in the northern hemisphere back decades. Crusaders and London are both out of the SL now so it would mean the entire top level RL in the whole northern hemisphere would be contained within two counties.

And people on this forum claim the NRL is not pro expansion.

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3 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

After what it did to your club over the years? Don't members clubs admit new members?

I didn't mention what it did or didn't do for my club,all I said is that I prefer the"if your good you go up, if you not you go down".We went down because we weren't good enough, simple. I just don't like licensing that's all.Whether you are promoted or relegated should depend on what goes on on the fuel of play.That's my view.

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42 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

Under licensing your club became a stable progressive community based sporting organisation

 

Under licencing, my club's crowds declined, the international side struggled, attendances at CC ties declined, neutrals appear to have stopped going to Wembley finals, crowds generally appear to be down, and Bradford Bulls went bust twice.

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6 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

I didn't mention what it did or didn't do for my club,all I said is that I prefer the"if your good you go up, if you not you go down".We went down because we weren't good enough, simple. I just don't like licensing that's all.Whether you are promoted or relegated should depend on what goes on on the fuel of play.That's my view.

If promotion and relegation are decided purely on the field of play, then we can't have rules regulating what teams put on the field of play. You can't have quota,s or squad limits or salary caps.

 

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11 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

I'm an expansionist fan.

I want all clubs to prosper

I want the sport to grow geographically and demographically

My allegiance is to rugby league.

Your last sentence shows an ignorance of people's motivation and point of view that is very dispiriting.

If you want all of the above why do you support licencing?

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3 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

Catalan may bounce back but if they don't it could set RL in the northern hemisphere back decades. Crusaders and London are both out of the SL now so it would mean the entire top level RL in the whole northern hemisphere would be contained within two counties.

And people on this forum claim the NRL is not pro expansion.

I don't know why you think I am not pro expansion. I like clubs in Rhodes, Turkey and I also recently watched Medway Dragons. 

 

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1 minute ago, Trojan said:

Under licencing, my club's crowds declined, the international side struggled, attendances at CC ties declined, neutrals appear to have stopped going to Wembley finals, crowds generally appear to be down, and Bradford Bulls went bust twice.

Crowds went up, 2012 was our best attended season in the pro era, challenge cup final crowds were higher than they are now, the international side was as good as it always was. Bradford Bulls have gone bust under P+R and we had only had it a year. 

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