Two more North America rugby league sides.

[Krzzystuff]

7 hours ago, Evil Homer said:

How are they any different from Toronto Wolfpack? Apart from that the bloke in the middle is probably worth more money than everyone currently involved in the sport put together.

The Wolfpack are run properly, have awesome marketing and commercial partners and are working their way up to the top...how does that team in the picture compare?

[Krzzystuff]

7 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

The embarrassing thing, as one of our Canadian colleagues mentioned in another post, is Perez is doing, in a couple of years, what we haven't done since inception.  

Seems strange that having a vision and trying to make it reality is 2nd nature to him yet foreign to us.  

I think it's a big case of some fresh perspective. There are different mindsets in NA to Europe and the UK so things that are accepted as the norm to you / us make no sense to the other. Also the world is a much smaller place than it ever was so there is also a big component of it being the right time. This wouldn't have worked 20 years ago, maybe even 5.

 

[Krzzystuff]

5 hours ago, Plan of Attack said:

Withe a bit of luck he might set 12 teams up and they can all play in their own league instead of causing chaos in ours after all any one can win championship 1 with a budget of 1.8million when all the other teams have built on a budget of 1/10th of that

And just how many people are knocking on the door to spend 1.8 million in league 1 again? We're working our way up from the bottom without complaint, naturally we don't want to be there and are doing everything we can to ensure we get promoted. Don't see anything wrong with following the rules and winning.

[Krzzystuff]

5 hours ago, Plan of Attack said:

They might make a lot of money but you can bet the other 11 teams will see sod all of it, if they bring >50 fans to Craven park, the Shay,Spotlands, Post office road (or whatever it is called nowadays) ETC next year I will be very surprised

Hmmm so those record attendances at the teams we played away weren't there because of us? Think a similar thing will happen next year and they've already stated they will be more active in getting the UK based fans to games next year.

Hopefully all if this pointless whining is a form of therapy for you mate.

[Krzzystuff]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and anything can happen but as a Canadian I don't see Detroit being on the map for many many years. There is a huge difference in the way people approach sport here to you guys in the UK as well so a lot of the things you guys take as norms are foreign to us and just make us scratch our heads, the reverse is also true.

Biggest example is the need to have local players on your team, nobody cares here...at all...honestly.

We should know in a few months what's going on and hopefully it's not Hamilton and we can go from there.

In the meantime get ready for an amazing year in the Championship, I hope Sky gets more coverage in the UK  for the league.

[Niels]

9 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Hmmm so those record attendances at the teams we played away weren't there because of us? Think a similar thing will happen next year and they've already stated they will be more active in getting the UK based fans to games next year.

Hopefully all if this pointless whining is a form of therapy for you mate.

I think you are underestimating championship clubs. It will be an experience playing against Toronto but we won't be expecting a record attendance.

One of my club's highest gates this year was aganst Sheffield because of a marketing initiative highlighting a local charity.

What I am saying is that it is not  necessarily the name of the away team that increases the crowd. 

 

 

[Krzzystuff]

9 minutes ago, Niels said:

I think you are underestimating championship clubs. It will be an experience playing against Toronto but we won't be expecting a record attendance.

One of my club's highest gates this year was aganst Sheffield because of a marketing initiative highlighting a local charity.

What I am saying is that it is not  necessarily the name of the away team that increases the crowd. 

 

 

Do I should have been more specific. Not expecting to break records, just wanted to state that we will most likely pull in extra spectators to ever game because of the names on the team sheets and likely because people want to see us fail. Whatever gets people out there and talking about it eh.

[Niels]

6 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Do I should have been more specific. Not expecting to break records, just wanted to state that we will most likely pull in extra spectators to ever game because of the names on the team sheets and likely because people want to see us fail. Whatever gets people out there and talking about it eh.

Thanks for your reply. Yes I am sure we will market the game well and it will be a good attendance. 

I want every team to fail when they play us lol - however I know what you mean. Hopefully some new fans will want to come again which will be very productive also. 

[Bob8]

13 hours ago, Evil Homer said:

If we're talking about the New England Patriots then sure, but I'm not sure even Perez could wrangle that. As for Hamilton, I see no incentive for the TiCats to do this since RL would essentially be a competitor and especially as the CFL season overlaps with RL so it wouldn't even be their primary focus for most of the season. I also don't see any type of situation where people would be interested or passionate about a subordinate team, which is essentially what this would be. Unless this is a move to 'steal' the CFL like another poster keeps suggesting.

The Patriots play in a location very, very far out of Boston in the middle of nowhere. 

You are quite right, it would not be possible nor suitable.

[Bob8]

13 hours ago, walter sobchak said:

If it is to be Boston would they take the name of the current USRL club the boston13's and play at the university ground??

I can think of no reason for them to link up with the amateur team and vice versa.  This was not done in Toronto and amateur and professional are very different models.

[Bob8]

9 hours ago, Plan of Attack said:

They might make a lot of money but you can bet the other 11 teams will see sod all of it, if they bring >50 fans to Craven park, the Shay,Spotlands, Post office road (or whatever it is called nowadays) ETC next year I will be very surprised

Are you still keen on the system of sponging money off bigger clubs?  Personally, I find sponging a pathetic way of making ends meet.  We probably just have different approaches to life.

[Copa]

I’m mostly looking forward to improving my jersey collection.

[DoubleD]

6 hours ago, Evil Homer said:

We're not trying to 'make a statement', we trying to expand the sport and to suggest that Detroit isn't a good enough market when we currently have top teams in places like Warrington, Castleford and Salford is a little strange. But yeah, better tell Man Utd and Real Madrid that their 2014 friendly which drew 109,000 people there was a waste of time or the 110,000 people that go to watch Michigan Wolverines every week that they aren't worthy of supporting RL.

The whole ideology behind this project is for these teams to attract sufficient commercial revenues through sponsorship and tv revenue so they become self sufficient. For that reason yes they do need to make a statement of intent as there’ll be far less interest from US tv companies in a team from what is known as the worst city in the US. There are also no direct flights from Manchester either so subsiding travel is also an issue. Oh and the small fact that they don’t play rugby there. 

So again, I look forward to seeing the business plan for this city, perhaps you could assist? Or we could just stop plucking names out of a hat which have no real basis.......

[Bob8]

7 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Has anyone on that side of the Pond actually suggested Detroit at all? This does seem to be a self-generated argument which has nothing to do with the more widely-rumoured expansion locations of Hamilton and Boston.

Quite.

Normally, I see dishonest arguments on both sides.  With this, it is a great deal of one side just making stuff up.

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I can think of no reason for them to link up with the amateur team and vice versa.  This was not done in Toronto and amateur and professional are very different models.

Whilst they are very different models, it would be folly of them not to engage with any grassroots development. These are potential supporters, and even players. This has often been overlooked by many SL clubs where they've ignored or become disengaged with community level which is to their own detriment. If you foster that relationship, you have an avenue for ticket sales to the wider public, and you can also help develop pathways for top youngsters

[Getmefood]

12 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I have no doubt Eric can achieve his goals and make his NA teams a success in the terms he's set out, and of course he derserves great credit for his passion for rugby league and the entrepreneurial zeal he's shown.

I just still have grave doubts his goals coincide with my goal for a thriving British rugby league. We shall see.

So I will continue to both watch, enjoy and indeed cheer for the Wolfpack, which I do, while at the same time monitoring developments with great scrutiny to see that the best players aren't being sucked out of our game and viable British clubs aren't demoted to promote cash rich overseas teams. 

I hope the RFL do the same.

There's nothing really stopping rugby league from thriving in Britain/Europe except in some cases rugby union. Also when the RFL step up its marketing and get teams set up in Ireland, Scotland, maybe places like Serbia and Italy tied to a French League then we could have a thriving British/European Rugby League.

[southstand loiner]

6 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

Do I should have been more specific. Not expecting to break records, just wanted to state that we will most likely pull in extra spectators to ever game because of the names on the team sheets and likely because people want to see us fail. Whatever gets people out there and talking about it eh.

well the York v Toronto produced the biggest York gate for many a year

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

Whilst they are very different models, it would be folly of them not to engage with any grassroots development. These are potential supporters, and even players. This has often been overlooked by many SL clubs where they've ignored or become disengaged with community level which is to their own detriment. If you foster that relationship, you have an avenue for ticket sales to the wider public, and you can also help develop pathways for top youngsters

I am typing this while wearing my Boston 13s shorts.  I used to play for them and still use the shorts as my gym shorts.  Certainly, they should be engaged.  But, it is a single, fairly small, amateur club.

[Anita Bath]

16 hours ago, Sick39ed said:

Boston would be a great Market! Hamilton, where is that?

45 mins drive (outside of rush hour) to the west on Toronto on Lake Ontario.  Its an old steel industry city, hence going through major industrial decline. It is also the home of the Canadian mafia - the latest 'take out' occurred in June this year - a reprisal for a previous leadership kiling of 20 years ago.

Dont be enticed by the Lake Ontario location, the steel industry pumps its ###### out into the lake so it is not inhabitable. 

It relates closely to Toronto for its sporting viewing/teams in everything but the CFL where the Tiger Cats and Toronto's Argonauts are sworn enemies. Argos fans and Toronto folks in general refer to Hamilton as 'stinky town'. The Tiger Cats have a storied history but like the city have been without success for much of the last 30 years - In the nine team league they have won the championship once during that period, back in 1999. Only the winnipeg blue bombers have been less successful during that period  The stadium was built with public money to host the pan am games football (soccer) tournament.  The TiCats have a sweetheart deal from the City for its use.  I would say there is no way on earth the owner of the TiCats (he likes to refer to himself as the caretaker, not the owner) he will be paying for the travel and accommodation of opponents.  He has already signed up to own a new 2nd tier 'soccer' team starting in 2018 at the stadium.

The stadium is in an old run down part of the city (that once thrived when steel was king). Historically housed post war eastern european immigrants who worked in steel. Very few bars, restaurants and what are there are of a spit and sawdust variety.

There is an airport but  passenger flights limited to a small number of domestic routes (Montreal, Calgary, Winnipeg) that fly only once or twice a day.

[JonM]

It's maybe worth pointing out that Perez's opening comment is "I can't really say where they are right now" followed by "I don't know where the Hamilton rumour came from."

As usual, he's doing a great job at getting the media interested and producing a juicy story, without actually confirming anything.

[PatrickB]

What a strange combination of cities Hamilton, Toronto and Boston would make as first 3 teams.

I live in Cambridge which is closer to Hamilton than it is to Toronto, but I still don't see Hamilton as a logical choice for one of the next 2 franchises.
 

The stadium is lovely but in a weird location, and if partnership with Ti-cats is an issue, the mgmt has absolutely zero track record of on field success in Canadian Football, and I'm not even sure there is any financial success to speak of. Outside of sports, thought the CEO has been successful in the past, hence having the money to buy the team.

But why would you divide your market around Toronto before you go elsewhere and expand your market with each new team.

Let's assume for a while at least we think about the eastern part of North America only because for the foreseeable future we are in a league with teams in the UK.

I could see Montreal, Boston, New York, and maybe even Halifax Nova Scotia as reasonable target locations. 

Boston, Montreal and NY obviously are markets in the same size range as Toronto, or even much larger in NY's case.

All 3 within a 60-90 minute flight of Toronto, and 4-6 hours of the UK.

Halifax, a similar sized city as Hamilton, also is only 2 hour so flight to Toronto, and I expect roughly a 4 hour flight to or from UK.

Halifax also does not have any other major league sports teams to compete with, just college sports and minor league hockey in a different season. One drawback is stadium. The current capacity of Saint Mary's University stadium is 4k although they have ability to add temporary seating up to 11k.

 

 

[JoneslessBishop]

I entirely trust Perez to make the right choices, and if he isn't sure about Boston and Hamilton, I am sure he is just putting some rumors out there to speed up the process with Montreal and NYC as he definitely wants at least 1 new N Am team at the start of 2018.

 

The key part of the interview for me is that he is not getting arrogant and demanding teams go straight into SL. He is suggesting that teams will be happy entering the pyramid wherever they can.

 

5-6 American teams within a decade sounds incredible. Will totally revolutionize our sport. 2 conferences is a feasible end game, adding a couple of a French teams and London to a non-heartland one, with the heartland conference ensuring max derbies. 1 set of cross-conference games, so heartland teams only play others home or away, means there would only be 4 'no away fans' games per season and minimize heartland travel.

 

In the mean time, a 14 team SL from next season, with 2 teams coming up automatically, should allow for Toronto, and thus Project North America, to continue to progress, without it being at the expense of any heartland teams.

[Big Picture]

52 minutes ago, JoneslessBishop said:

I entirely trust Perez to make the right choices, and if he isn't sure about Boston and Hamilton, I am sure he is just putting some rumors out there to speed up the process with Montreal and NYC as he definitely wants at least 1 new N Am team at the start of 2018.

The key part of the interview for me is that he is not getting arrogant and demanding teams go straight into SL. He is suggesting that teams will be happy entering the pyramid wherever they can.

5-6 American teams within a decade sounds incredible. Will totally revolutionize our sport. 2 conferences is a feasible end game, adding a couple of a French teams and London to a non-heartland one, with the heartland conference ensuring max derbies. 1 set of cross-conference games, so heartland teams only play others home or away, means there would only be 4 'no away fans' games per season and minimize heartland travel.

Your approach to 2 divisions (not conferences, a conference would normally have divisions within it) is way too heartland-centric.  You can't put London, Toulouse and Catalans in the same division as the American franchises, that would make travel very unbalanced.  You would have equal numbers on each side of the Atlantic instead, e.g a European Division and an American Division with 5-6 franchises each at the outset and each growing from there at the same rate to keep then in balance.  That way, the amount of transatlantic travel is equal for all franchises making a level playing field.

[John WP Fan]

15 hours ago, Frog said:

I know this is a forum and a talking shop of sorts but Toronto worshippers should get a sense of reality . It's a team of Englishmen in aTWP kit with a clever marketing operation.

We know that and we find nothing wrong with that. It's how sports work over here. Of course we love to see a Canadian earn his way into the lineup, but this is a new sport here and it will take a generation to develop real numbers of players with enough skill to play at this level. There is no lack of reality. We are excited about our new team in a fabulous sport, and we think it's going to continue to grow here. The development of local players will happen, but it will take many years.

 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, John WP Fan said:

We know that and we find nothing wrong with that. It's how sports work over here. Of course we love to see a Canadian earn his way into the lineup, but this is a new sport here and it will take a generation to develop real numbers of players with enough skill to play at this level. There is no lack of reality. We are excited about our new team in a fabulous sport, and we think it's going to continue to grow here. The development of local players will happen, but it will take many years.

 

Great post.