paulwalker71 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 10 hours ago, John WP Fan said: Who would ever consider placing two professional teams less than an hour's drive apart? Crazy talk... Love this comment John In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country. For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, walter sobchak said: Do frogs cry? Yes Frogs have tear ducts that express fluid and salts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said: Love this comment John In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country. For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds. Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 31 minutes ago, Damien said: Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... Yes, that's a fair point. The difference with football, though, is that the Manchester and Liverpool clubs aren't the only clubs around. Football has clubs spread all over the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Drake Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 10 hours ago, Frog said: They haven't cost the RFL any money (yet) which is some kind of positive I guess if you're determined to big them up. It's all going to end in tears though. So let's just sum up shall we. TWP have attracted an average of 7k new fans to Rugby League in a league where the average attendance was previously sub 1k. They've got a good marketing operation in place. The new fans seem to love what they're watching. The club is on telly every week. They haven't cost the RFL any money. And you're trying to argue all this is somehow a bad thing? Okaaaaaay. Look, I've seen enough attempts at RL expansion crash and burn over the years to know nothing can ever be take for granted long term, but fear of failure will never stop me wanting RL to keep on trying to expand whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself, or wishing those well who make the effort to invest time and resources in it. I want TWP to succeed, to survive and to prosper, and if that results in a whole bunch of other people wanting to start teams in North America, I'll be jumping for joy. And if it doesn't, what exactly have we lost? Nowt. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladman Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 hours ago, John Drake said: So let's just sum up shall we. TWP have attracted an average of 7k new fans to Rugby League in a league where the average attendance was previously sub 1k. They've got a good marketing operation in place. The new fans seem to love what they're watching. The club is on telly every week. They haven't cost the RFL any money. And you're trying to argue all this is somehow a bad thing? Okaaaaaay. Look, I've seen enough attempts at RL expansion crash and burn over the years to know nothing can ever be take for granted long term, but fear of failure will never stop me wanting RL to keep on trying to expand whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself, or wishing those well who make the effort to invest time and resources in it. I want TWP to succeed, to survive and to prosper, and if that results in a whole bunch of other people wanting to start teams in North America, I'll be jumping for joy. And if it doesn't, what exactly have we lost? Nowt. HEAR HEAR well said it has not cost RL a carrot and all i see is a WIN WIN situation for Rugby League:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John WP Fan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Damien said: Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... Yes, and there are examples even here (mostly in baseball) in North America with multiple clubs sharing a very large market: LA, the San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, New York. There has been talk of a 2nd NHL team for Toronto, or one in Hamilton, and I do think either would work, because there really is a large enough group of hockey fans in Toronto to support more than one team. And when I say "support" I mean sell out a 20,000 seat arena 41 times a year + playoffs, and buy a ridiculous amount of merchandise. My point was really more about making sure each fully-professional team has a large enough market of fans to address, and when you have multiple teams close together, each targeting a small or medium-sized town instead of the larger area or metropolis, it's hard for me to see great success coming of that. I'm not suggesting that these teams should all merge or shut down, just that there is only so much room in any community for a top-flight fully-professional team, and to try to cram too many of those into too small a market is not the best way to grow a world-class league. I know I probably think very differently on this issue than most long-time rugby league fans in the UK, and I'm not trying to start a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, John WP Fan said: Yes, and there are examples even here (mostly in baseball) in North America with multiple clubs sharing a very large market: LA, the San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, New York. There has been talk of a 2nd NHL team for Toronto, or one in Hamilton, and I do think either would work, because there really is a large enough group of hockey fans in Toronto to support more than one team. And when I say "support" I mean sell out a 20,000 seat arena 41 times a year + playoffs, and buy a ridiculous amount of merchandise. My point was really more about making sure each fully-professional team has a large enough market of fans to address, and when you have multiple teams close together, each targeting a small or medium-sized town instead of the larger area or metropolis, it's hard for me to see great success coming of that. I'm not suggesting that these teams should all merge or shut down, just that there is only so much room in any community for a top-flight fully-professional team, and to try to cram too many of those into too small a market is not the best way to grow a world-class league. I know I probably think very differently on this issue than most long-time rugby league fans in the UK, and I'm not trying to start a fight. Not at all and I didn't think you were, I think with regards to Canada and the USA you are right. When starting from a blank canvas, as the game is there, concentrating on the huge cities makes complete sense. I was just pointing out to another poster why things are a little different in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 hours ago, paulwalker71 said: Love this comment John In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country. For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds. I'm sure that 122 years ago the clubs that set up our game didnt realise theyd cause this much upset on the internet , maybe somebody should have explained it to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzzystuff Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: I'm sure that 122 years ago the clubs that set up our game didnt realise theyd cause this much upset on the internet , maybe somebody should have explained it to them Quick, to the delorean Marty!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 11 hours ago, paulwalker71 said: Love this comment John In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country. For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds. Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Homer Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Niels said: Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game. We should have a club on every street IMO so old people can walk to the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzzystuff Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, Evil Homer said: We should have a club on every street IMO so old people can walk to the games. why not just play a game on everyones lawn every other day instead? Will irrigate the lawn and help with pulling the weeds as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Tiny Tim Cratchit wouldn't be able to get to the game either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 41 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said: why not just play a game on everyones lawn every other day instead? Will irrigate the lawn and help with pulling the weeds as well. We are obviously a bit more progressive here with regard to caring for the poor, disadvantaged and disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Niels said: Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game. And also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzzystuff Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 31 minutes ago, Niels said: We are obviously a bit more progressive here with regard to caring for the poor, disadvantaged and disabled. Canada is quite progressive as well but using elderly and disabled needs as justification for having clubs within 30 minutes of each other is rather absurd, not sure if that was your intention but that's how its been received and why no one is taking you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said: Canada is quite progressive as well but using elderly and disabled needs as justification for having clubs within 30 minutes of each other is rather absurd, not sure if that was your intention but that's how its been received and why no one is taking you seriously. The initial post stated a drive of one hour - that is a lot longer than 30 minutes. My intention was for people to give a little thought for people less fortunate who enjoy seeing rugby league. This is a serious subject as the history of rugby league is one of being inclusive to everyone. What else do you think is absurd for the disabled and infirm at grounds? Wheelchair ramps at access points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copa Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Niels said: The initial post stated a drive of one hour - that is a lot longer than 30 minutes. My intention was for people to give a little thought for people less fortunate who enjoy seeing rugby league. This is a serious subject as the history of rugby league is one of being inclusive to everyone. What else do you think is absurd for the disabled and infirm at grounds? Wheelchair ramps at access points? They can go to their local amateur club and watch a game. That’s what happens in Australia when the nearest NRL game is a full day’s drive away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcl Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Where did the money come from? which hides behind Perez, Argyle and co? and what is the financial strength of its investors? Its a priority to have an answer to this questions to get an idea of the interest this sudden development. Personaly, I do not understand the current orientations of our sport www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, fcl said: Where did the money come from? which hides behind Perez, Argyle and co? and what is the financial strength of its investors? Its a priority to have an answer to this questions to get an idea of the interest this sudden development. Personaly, I do not understand the current orientations of our sport Where did the money come from for any clubs? What is the point of it all? We all just love the game don't we? Can't we just let anyone play who wants to and anyone set up a club that is willing to put in the vast amount of time and resources required? It's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcl Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 know who is funding the project can help determine whether it is sustainable. Beyond that, I think that creating artificial teams with a lot of money can not replace the work of a rugby school and its educators. The current orientations of rugbyleague are discouraging for nations that really work to develop. www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, GUBRATS said: I'm sure that 122 years ago the clubs that set up our game didnt realise theyd cause this much upset on the internet , maybe somebody should have explained it to them Motor cars not yet invented in 1895, and travelling between counties took hours on the train. Away teams often used horse and cart to travel the final miles from the railway station, even in the 1920s. (This obviously carried on until recent times in parts of Yarkshire ;-) ) The time and cost of travel was why they switched to county leagues after the first season. Many Lancashire teams travelled to Barrow on the paddle steamer from Fleetwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, JonM said: Motor cars not yet invented in 1895, and travelling between counties took hours on the train. Away teams often used horse and cart to travel the final miles from the railway station, even in the 1920s. (This obviously carried on until recent times in parts of Yarkshire ;-) ) The time and cost of travel was why they switched to county leagues after the first season. Many Lancashire teams travelled to Barrow on the paddle steamer from Fleetwood. Exactly , but we still have people suggesting that I , born in leigh , with a great uncle that won the Challenge Cup in 1921 for his local team should potentially accept that I should change my allegence to a team from a different town for ' the good of the game ' ? Nope , no chance , we have what we have for reasons set over a hundred years ago , I'm not going to go against that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Exactly , but we still have people suggesting that I , born in leigh , with a great uncle that won the Challenge Cup in 1921 for his local team should potentially accept that I should change my allegence to a team from a different town for ' the good of the game ' ? Nope , no chance , we have what we have for reasons set over a hundred years ago , I'm not going to go against that Who has told you to change your allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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