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glemiln

Two more North America rugby league sides.

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45 minutes ago, Frog said:

They haven't cost the RFL any money (yet) which is some kind of positive I guess if you're determined to big them up. It's all going to end in tears though.

Could they be tears of joy?

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1 hour ago, Manxmanc said:

Could they be tears of joy?

For everyone except the Frog

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14 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Outdated?  I have lived in Hamilton for 30 years.  How about yourself - is your information limited to the drinking the kool aid of the Toronto press. The city has had many different sports team over that time, all, with the exception of the tiger cats have left town or collapsed after a few years. St Louis cardinals had a minor league baseball team, vancouver canuck, edmonton Oilers and Montreal Canadians all had their NHL farm teams in Hamilton for short periods before moving them out - basketball, lacrosse had professional teams that left town after 1 or 2 years. I could go on.

 The reference to bars and restaurants was specific to the area around the stadium.  Interesting to add the city was also supposed to host the athletics and cycling events for the Pan Am games but the council got into big fights over stadium location and had those events taken away from the city.  They  are similarly having fights over a proposed light railway (tram)  -  its a dysfunctional council that has imposed the second highest municipal taxes in the country.

HI Anita!  I have made many past points about Hamilton as a poor choice in threads as I also lived there for quite some time, had a brother in law on the police force for 30 yrs and mother in law a nurse at St Josephs for a good 40 yrs.  All your points about Hamilton I agree.   Its been a graveyard for every sporting endeavor other then the Ticats, and even almost sunk them more then once.  Its not to say I don't like the people in Hamilton as I know hundreds of honest, hard working souls in the city.  But as a place to launch the next great NA entry into RL it would be a dreadful choice.  Perez is just blowing smoke when inviting speculation on it as a potential candidate.

I wrote a semi whimsical post about the diff between visiting Montreal and visiting Hamilton as an away fan from the UK in one of the forums which I shall somehow find and repost.  I suspect you would have agreed with it verbatim.

Hopefully we will meet up at a TWP game next year!  I have a soft spot for Hamiltonians but by god what a dreadful grungy downtown, and your right the city council is stupid beyond belief.   Several of them are completely self interested individuals and detestable city representatives.

 

Edited by Captain Survival
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10 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

 Who would ever consider placing two professional teams less than an hour's drive apart? Crazy talk...

Love this comment John

In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country.

For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds.

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2 hours ago, walter sobchak said:

Do frogs cry?

Yes Frogs have tear ducts that express fluid and salts .

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10 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Love this comment John

In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country.

For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds.

Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... 

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31 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... 

Yes, that's a fair point. The difference with football, though, is that the Manchester and Liverpool clubs aren't the  only clubs around. Football has clubs spread all over the country!

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10 hours ago, Frog said:

They haven't cost the RFL any money (yet) which is some kind of positive I guess if you're determined to big them up. It's all going to end in tears though.

So let's just sum up shall we.

TWP have attracted an average of 7k new fans to Rugby League in a league where the average attendance was previously sub 1k.

They've got a good marketing operation in place. The new fans seem to love what they're watching. The club is on telly every week.

They haven't cost the RFL any money.

And you're trying to argue all this is somehow a bad thing?

Okaaaaaay.

Look, I've seen enough attempts at RL expansion crash and burn over the years to know nothing can ever be take for granted long term, but fear of failure will never stop me wanting RL to keep on trying to expand whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself, or wishing those well who make the effort to invest time and resources in it.

I want TWP to succeed, to survive and to prosper, and if that results in a whole bunch of other people wanting to start teams in North America, I'll be jumping for joy.

And if it doesn't, what exactly have we lost? Nowt.

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2 hours ago, John Drake said:

So let's just sum up shall we.

TWP have attracted an average of 7k new fans to Rugby League in a league where the average attendance was previously sub 1k.

They've got a good marketing operation in place. The new fans seem to love what they're watching. The club is on telly every week.

They haven't cost the RFL any money.

And you're trying to argue all this is somehow a bad thing?

Okaaaaaay.

Look, I've seen enough attempts at RL expansion crash and burn over the years to know nothing can ever be take for granted long term, but fear of failure will never stop me wanting RL to keep on trying to expand whenever and wherever the opportunity presents itself, or wishing those well who make the effort to invest time and resources in it.

I want TWP to succeed, to survive and to prosper, and if that results in a whole bunch of other people wanting to start teams in North America, I'll be jumping for joy.

And if it doesn't, what exactly have we lost? Nowt.

HEAR HEAR well said it has not cost RL a carrot and all i see is a WIN WIN situation for Rugby League:)

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5 hours ago, Damien said:

Well to be fair you are comparing different countries with completely different sizes and population densities. If in the UK we only had sports teams a hours drive apart it would be a pretty small league. Also someone had better have a word with Man Utd, Man City, Everton, Liverpool etc or the Midlands teams or the London teams... 

Yes, and there are examples even here (mostly in baseball) in North America with multiple clubs sharing a very large market: LA, the San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, New York. There has been talk of a 2nd NHL team for Toronto, or one in Hamilton, and I do think either would work, because there really is a large enough group of hockey fans in Toronto to support more than one team. And when I say "support" I mean sell out a 20,000 seat arena 41 times a year + playoffs, and buy a ridiculous amount of merchandise.

My point was really more about making sure each fully-professional team has a large enough market of fans to address, and when you have multiple teams close together, each targeting a small or medium-sized town instead of the larger area or metropolis, it's hard for me to see great success coming of that.

I'm not suggesting that these teams should all merge or shut down, just that there is only so much room in any community for a top-flight fully-professional team, and to try to cram too many of those into too small a market is not the best way to grow a world-class league.

I know I probably think very differently on this issue than most long-time rugby league fans in the UK, and I'm not trying to start a fight.

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5 minutes ago, John WP Fan said:

Yes, and there are examples even here (mostly in baseball) in North America with multiple clubs sharing a very large market: LA, the San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, New York. There has been talk of a 2nd NHL team for Toronto, or one in Hamilton, and I do think either would work, because there really is a large enough group of hockey fans in Toronto to support more than one team. And when I say "support" I mean sell out a 20,000 seat arena 41 times a year + playoffs, and buy a ridiculous amount of merchandise.

My point was really more about making sure each fully-professional team has a large enough market of fans to address, and when you have multiple teams close together, each targeting a small or medium-sized town instead of the larger area or metropolis, it's hard for me to see great success coming of that.

I'm not suggesting that these teams should all merge or shut down, just that there is only so much room in any community for a top-flight fully-professional team, and to try to cram too many of those into too small a market is not the best way to grow a world-class league.

I know I probably think very differently on this issue than most long-time rugby league fans in the UK, and I'm not trying to start a fight.

Not at all and I didn't think you were, I think with regards to Canada and the USA you are right. When starting from a blank canvas, as the game is there,  concentrating on the huge cities makes complete sense. I was just pointing out to another poster why things are a little different in the UK. 

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9 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Love this comment John

In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country.

For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds.

I'm sure that 122 years ago the clubs that set up our game didnt realise theyd cause this much upset on the internet , maybe somebody should have explained it to them 

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15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm sure that 122 years ago the clubs that set up our game didnt realise theyd cause this much upset on the internet , maybe somebody should have explained it to them 

Quick, to the delorean Marty!!!!

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11 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Love this comment John

In one sentence you have encapsulated the difference between the refreshingly expansive mindset of our new North American friends, and the inward-looking, reactionary and see-serving mindset of RL in this country.

For reference I live close to junction 27 of the M62, on a good traffic day (admittedly rare) I could drive to every SL hosting city or town in an hour or just over. If we factor in Championship and League 1 teams it would be well over twenty grounds.

Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. 

If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game.

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4 minutes ago, Niels said:

Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. 

If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game.

We should have a club on every street IMO so old people can walk to the games.

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15 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

We should have a club on every street IMO so old people can walk to the games.

why not just play a game on everyones lawn every other day instead? Will irrigate the lawn and help with pulling the weeds as well.

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41 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

why not just play a game on everyones lawn every other day instead? Will irrigate the lawn and help with pulling the weeds as well.

We are obviously a bit more progressive here with regard to caring for the poor, disadvantaged and disabled.

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1 hour ago, Niels said:

Apart from country size which you gracefully accepted, the other thought that came to my mind was what about people who can't drive, are infirm, disabled, elderly, poor etc. 

If their club disappeared then we would be excluding them from watching the game.

And also...

lovejoy-think-of-the-children-16nov131.j

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31 minutes ago, Niels said:

We are obviously a bit more progressive here with regard to caring for the poor, disadvantaged and disabled.

Canada is quite progressive as well but using elderly and disabled needs as justification for having clubs within 30 minutes of each other is rather absurd, not sure if that was your intention but that's how its been received and why no one is taking you seriously. 

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7 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Canada is quite progressive as well but using elderly and disabled needs as justification for having clubs within 30 minutes of each other is rather absurd, not sure if that was your intention but that's how its been received and why no one is taking you seriously. 

The initial post stated a drive of one hour - that is a lot longer than 30 minutes. 

My intention was for people to give a little thought for people less fortunate who enjoy seeing rugby league. This is a serious subject as the history of rugby league is one of being inclusive to everyone. 

What else do you think is absurd for the disabled and infirm at grounds? Wheelchair ramps at access points? 

 

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5 minutes ago, Niels said:

The initial post stated a drive of one hour - that is a lot longer than 30 minutes. 

My intention was for people to give a little thought for people less fortunate who enjoy seeing rugby league. This is a serious subject as the history of rugby league is one of being inclusive to everyone. 

What else do you think is absurd for the disabled and infirm at grounds? Wheelchair ramps at access points? 

 

They can go to their local amateur club and watch a game. That’s what happens in Australia when the nearest NRL game is a full day’s drive away.

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Where did the money come from? which hides behind Perez, Argyle and co? and what is the financial strength of its investors? Its a priority to have an answer to this questions to get an idea of the interest this sudden development. Personaly, I do not understand the current orientations of our sport

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4 minutes ago, fcl said:

Where did the money come from? which hides behind Perez, Argyle and co? and what is the financial strength of its investors? Its a priority to have an answer to this questions to get an idea of the interest this sudden development. Personaly, I do not understand the current orientations of our sport

Where did the money come from for any clubs? What is the point of it all? We all just love the game don't we? Can't we just let anyone play who wants to and anyone set up a club that is willing to put in the vast amount of time and resources required?

It's all good!

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