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Hammered 50-14 by Country U23 selection. Literally a procession of missed tackles, penalties for offside, totally unable to stop a young lightweight team getting a roll on against them.

The Scottish team looked a total joke. Even though they 'rested' a good number of players (for their only warm up game!) they were still given a complete hiding from a team of U23 players from "the Newcastle district league" and other equally obscure competitions, as the Aussie commentator was only too keen to remind us. 

I have no idea how many of these guys were actually Scottish, but the level of the team was shambolic.

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Some players from those competitions are in WC squads. They are strong competitions and some players in them probably earn more playing rugby league than some of the players in team Scotland.

I think it also shows the amazing depth of talent within country NSW and that growth of the professional game will hopefully result in more opportunities for the talent from regional leagues.

Scotland has an appalling domestic scene and will probably be booted from future major international competitions as a result. 

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As soon as Scotland is bundled out of this WC I'd like to see some of the RLEF members raise the issue of Scotland's membership. It's absurd to allow Scotland to keep getting places in tournaments that could go to countries who actually have working RL comps every year, like Serbia, Lebanon.

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1 hour ago, Farmduck said:

As soon as Scotland is bundled out of this WC I'd like to see some of the RLEF members raise the issue of Scotland's membership. It's absurd to allow Scotland to keep getting places in tournaments that could go to countries who actually have working RL comps every year, like Serbia, Lebanon.

But I thought using heritage players developed the domestic game? As is often argued on these forums. Scotland have been in World Cups, the 4 nations, and the sport has actually declined domestically in those times.

There is no (or barely any) RL in Scotland. They should not be one of the seeded groups ahead of Wales/France or another nation that is actually trying to develop.

Edited by ojx
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21 minutes ago, ojx said:

But I thought using heritage players developed the domestic game? As is often argued on these forums. Scotland have been in World Cups, the 4 nations, and the sport has actually declined domestically in those times.

There is no (or barely any) RL in Scotland. They should not be one of the seeded groups ahead of Wales/France or another nation that is actually trying to develop.

Heritage teams doesn't grow the game one iota in the countries they represent, they don't get any attention be it from media or the populous as there's nothing to relate to, not a shred of native identity or any seeds of development. What it does do is provide extra games in the tournament for the bonifide nations so I don't have any issue with it at all. Have some sympathy for nations that have some development (France for example) as they will get walloped by NRL players, but overall it's better to have heritage teams as the extra games also provide increased income. Ideally that extra money would then be poured back into those nations with heritage teams to plant some seeds. Being Irish I won't be tuning in for any of the Ireland games (have no idea of any of the names of the heritage team that will wear the green jersey this time, haven't bothered checking), I'm far more interested in seeing Cronk and Cameron Smith link up again for Aus, also interested seeing how England do...wouldn't mind England winning it.

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18 minutes ago, EHarris said:

Heritage teams doesn't grow the game one iota in the countries they represent, they don't get any attention be it from media or the populous as there's nothing to relate to, not a shred of native identity or any seeds of development. What it does do is provide extra games in the tournament for the bonifide nations so I don't have any issue with it at all.

So, a fair admission that these counties are only there to make England feel good before their inevitable failure against proper professional RL county (NZ or Aus). The 4 nations is all that is needed for this.

An emerging nations World Cup without heritage players would be much more valuable for development.

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30 minutes ago, EHarris said:

Heritage teams doesn't grow the game one iota in the countries they represent, they don't get any attention be it from media or the populous as there's nothing to relate to, not a shred of native identity or any seeds of development. What it does do is provide extra games in the tournament for the bonifide nations so I don't have any issue with it at all. Have some sympathy for nations that have some development (France for example) as they will get walloped by NRL players, but overall it's better to have heritage teams as the extra games also provide increased income. Ideally that extra money would then be poured back into those nations with heritage teams to plant some seeds. Being Irish I won't be tuning in for any of the Ireland games (have no idea of any of the names of the heritage team that will wear the green jersey this time, haven't bothered checking), I'm far more interested in seeing Cronk and Cameron Smith link up again for Aus, also interested seeing how England do...wouldn't mind England winning it.

From almost nothing to 40 plus teams in Fiji. Born and raised Fijians play at all levels in Australia now. The initial heritage team for Lebanon has resulted in a domestic scene in Lebanon.

I just think the one size fits all model doesn’t work for everyone. Hasn’t worked for Scotland and they should be removed from competitions until they pick up their game.

Edited by Copa
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The initial explosion of Fijian teams from 11 or 12 to 50-odd, plus regional rep teams, schoolboys teams and women's teams, was largely due to the Country Rugby League cutting red tape and assisting clubs here in bringing Fijians into the country. That opportunity was something many young Fijian men would have seen as attractive and the admin of the Fijian RL did a good job of capitalising on it. There are now Fijians RL players being signed to NRL clubs, not just country clubs.

Lebanon's small domestic setup sprouted from the Sydney-based organisation and they were allowed in the 2000 WC on the promise of setting up something domestically. Games against France in Lebanon helped. Growth has been slow there but not being able to play home tests has surely hindered their development. 

Scotland had some decent junior development going on when the rfl had development officers there and the odd Scotland senior team game there would have helped. There's been neither for years.

It's horses for courses and it's clear some countries benefit from heritage players in the first instance and others either don't or there isn't enough other support to help capitalise. If there's none of those other efforts there is no point having heritage teams in the WC and other major events. Scotland epitomises that. And that's why the RLIF needs to start applying it's flimsy standards. It doesn't matter how good your heritage players are, there has to be some reasonable structures in place below it. In Scotland there isn't at the moment. 

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20 minutes ago, Copa said:

From almost nothing to 40 plus teams in Fiji. Born and raised Fijians play at all levels in Australia now. The initial heritage team for Lebanon has resulted in a domestic scene in Lebanon.

I just think the one size fits all model doesn’t work for everyone. Hasn’t worked for Scotland and they should be removed from competitions until they pick up their game.

Great point. It works the best for the south seas islanders who want to identify with their culture. But these countries offer very little commercial growth for the tournament. Also, they actually have domestic teams, Scotland have maybe two amateur teams, now Aberdeen Warriors are gone.

Edited by ojx

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Just now, ojx said:

Great point. It works the best for the south seas islanders who want to identify with their culture. But these countries offer very little commercial growth for the tournament. Also, they actually have domestic teams, Scotland have maybe two teams, now Aberdeen Warriors are gone.

Well the RLIF can get Scotland a pathway into the WC but it needs to be backed up with domestic development and opportunities. If they don’t do these last two things it’s bad luck to them as they will now probably be removed from international tournaments of note.

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59 minutes ago, EHarris said:

Being Irish I won't be tuning in for any of the Ireland games (have no idea of any of the names of the heritage team that will wear the green jersey this time, haven't bothered checking), 

Last year on 30 September Rugby League Ireland posted this on Facebook:

.......

Rugby League Ireland announces new selection policy to ensure more domestic players in international squads
 
• At least 8 Irish-based players in World Cup qualification squad
• At least 6 in the World Cup tournament or European Championship squads
• Policy provides ‘a clear pathway to international sport for domestic players’
 
Rugby League Ireland has announced a major new selection policy to increase the number of home-based players selected for Ireland’s international matches.
Under the new policy, a minimum of 8 players selected in senior international squads must have played club rugby in Ireland. That number is at least 6 when Ireland play in the World Cup or European Championship and are likely to face tier-one nations such as England or Australia.
The ground-breaking decision will take effect immediately and will apply for Ireland’s crucial World Cup qualifying matches against Spain and Russia next month. It means that more than 40% of the players in that 19-man squad will have played for rugby league clubs in Ireland.
The new policy represents a considerable change and is designed to support RLI’s efforts to develop and grow the sport of rugby league throughout Ireland, North and South, by improving and rewarding domestic players who now have a clear and defined pathway to international selection.
Currently Ireland play some development international matches with squads consisting entirely of Irish-based players, however, senior international fixtures such as World Cup and European Championship matches would often consist entirely of professional players based in England or the Southern Hemisphere.
Richard Egan, Director of Rugby League Ireland, said: “This is a fantastic opportunity for players in the domestic competition to help drive Ireland’s World Cup challenge. The incentive to qualify for and play in the World Cup is massive and I’m confident our squad will be strong enough to achieve this.
“Rugby League is growing in popularity throughout Ireland — there are players coming into the game with considerable pedigree in other sports such as rugby union and GAA. The decision to ensure that all international squads consist of a greater number of players who come from the domestic competition acknowledges and supports this growth.
“The home-grown players in the international squads will improve as a result of training and playing with the overseas professionals and this will feed into the domestic game when they return to their clubs, providing encouragement for all those playing the game in Ireland and helping to build a sustainable domestic game.
“These players will still have to earn the right to wear the Ireland jersey but they now know there is a clear and defined pathway to international sport for them.”
Ireland will play development matches against Malta (October 8th) and Jamaica (October 16th) at the Carlisle Grounds in Bray, Co Wicklow, before the World Cup qualifiers against Spain (October 22nd) in Valencia, and Russia (October 29th) in Bray. The Rugby League World Cup takes place in Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea next autumn.
Earlier this month, an Ireland team consisting entirely of Irish-based players defeated Italy 60-26 in Brescia.

 

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Here it is in black and white: http://www.rlif.com/about_the_rlif/membership_criteria

  1. An organisation applying for Full Membership must meet all Affiliate Member criteria.
  2. Complete and submit to the RLEF annual accounts for at least 24-months prior to application.
  3. Publish and lodge with the RLEF annual reports for at least two years prior to application.
  4. Be able to demonstrate the financial stability of the organisation.
  5. Conduct regular rugby league competitions within the country – competition is defined as a 13-a-side league competition played under International Laws of rugby league over a minimum of a 10-week period.
  • a)     Minimum 8 open age teams each playing a minimum of 6 regular season matches, not including play-offs
  • B)Minimum 4 open age reserve division teams each playing a minimum of 3 regular season matches, not including play-offs
  • c)     Minimum six-team junior club (or school) competition with each team playing a minimum of four regular season matches, not including play-offs. The age range of the competition may be anything from U14 to U18, with the six named teams all being of the same age category.
  • d)     At least 500 registered participants (players, coaches and match officials)
  1. Approved international programme at more than one level which must include full international and may in addition include “A” international, student, junior (Under 18 or younger) and wheelchair. All at Male or Female.
  2. Members may be able to source revenue from the above activity by way of fees. This can be extended to include registration fees, sponsorship, government grants, gate and canteen receipts and RLEF grants where applicable.
  3. An approved Development Plan, correctly resourced with annual reports lodged with the RLEF.
  4. Have a designated, active media manager and be able to show a functioning media operation.
Edited by Farmduck

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So i see the scots have a 3 team comp. There some growth but seriously serbia, spain and russia miss spot

Country nsw 23s simply its a heartland of game in oz not sure the surprise

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For me the real worry is that Samoa beat Country U23s by 30 points then Country beat Scotland by 40. So when they meet in the WC, will Samoa beat Scotland 70-0? I realise a few Scots players were rested so, 60-0?

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

Well the RLIF can get Scotland a pathway into the WC but it needs to be backed up with domestic development and opportunities. If they don’t do these last two things it’s bad luck to them as they will now probably be removed from international tournaments of note.

Totally agree. Wales used heritage players last time but has moved toward domestic ones. The USA has done the same as have numerous other countries. Scotland is an exception rather than the rule. I think it used to get funding from the RFL in England but was told by the government that Scotland had its own sports funding and English funding was for England. That's my understanding anyway of what happened.

Since then its all been downhill north of the border, not that it was that strong before. Obviously the future of Scotland at WC's is hard to justify with the current situation. 

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3 hours ago, Farmduck said:

Here it is in black and white: http://www.rlif.com/about_the_rlif/membership_criteria

  1. An organisation applying for Full Membership must meet all Affiliate Member criteria.
  2. Complete and submit to the RLEF annual accounts for at least 24-months prior to application.
  3. Publish and lodge with the RLEF annual reports for at least two years prior to application.
  4. Be able to demonstrate the financial stability of the organisation.
  5. Conduct regular rugby league competitions within the country – competition is defined as a 13-a-side league competition played under International Laws of rugby league over a minimum of a 10-week period.
  • a)     Minimum 8 open age teams each playing a minimum of 6 regular season matches, not including play-offs
  • B)Minimum 4 open age reserve division teams each playing a minimum of 3 regular season matches, not including play-offs
  • c)     Minimum six-team junior club (or school) competition with each team playing a minimum of four regular season matches, not including play-offs. The age range of the competition may be anything from U14 to U18, with the six named teams all being of the same age category.
  • d)     At least 500 registered participants (players, coaches and match officials)
  1. Approved international programme at more than one level which must include full international and may in addition include “A” international, student, junior (Under 18 or younger) and wheelchair. All at Male or Female.
  2. Members may be able to source revenue from the above activity by way of fees. This can be extended to include registration fees, sponsorship, government grants, gate and canteen receipts and RLEF grants where applicable.
  3. An approved Development Plan, correctly resourced with annual reports lodged with the RLEF.
  4. Have a designated, active media manager and be able to show a functioning media operation.

Based on those requirements Australia also do not meet the criteria to be a member of the RLIF.

However, I do agree Scotland are a shambles and need booting from future tournaments until they sort themselves out.

Edited by Odsal Outlaw
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7 hours ago, Farmduck said:

As soon as Scotland is bundled out of this WC I'd like to see some of the RLEF members raise the issue of Scotland's membership. It's absurd to allow Scotland to keep getting places in tournaments that could go to countries who actually have working RL comps every year, like Serbia, Lebanon.

I’m afraid I’ve got to agree, with the demise of Aberdeen there’s no domestic competition to speak of in Scotland 

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While things are not ideal in Ireland either there are at least real attempts to grow the game and the domestic set up is producing players. For Scotland to effectively not even have a domestic competition and no attempts to set one absolutely shocking. I thought they'd try and use the four nations as a springboard but they haven't. The money that has been spent on a team of heritage players would be much better spent on developing the game there as it currently there is none. Next four nations should give a place to Wales, France or Ireland 

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6 hours ago, East Coast Tiger said:

The initial explosion of Fijian teams from 11 or 12 to 50-odd, plus regional rep teams, schoolboys teams and women's teams, was largely due to the Country Rugby League cutting red tape and assisting clubs here in bringing Fijians into the country. That opportunity was something many young Fijian men would have seen as attractive and the admin of the Fijian RL did a good job of capitalising on it. There are now Fijians RL players being signed to NRL clubs, not just country clubs.

Lebanon's small domestic setup sprouted from the Sydney-based organisation and they were allowed in the 2000 WC on the promise of setting up something domestically. Games against France in Lebanon helped. Growth has been slow there but not being able to play home tests has surely hindered their development. 

Scotland had some decent junior development going on when the rfl had development officers there and the odd Scotland senior team game there would have helped. There's been neither for years.

It's horses for courses and it's clear some countries benefit from heritage players in the first instance and others either don't or there isn't enough other support to help capitalise. If there's none of those other efforts there is no point having heritage teams in the WC and other major events. Scotland epitomises that. And that's why the RLIF needs to start applying it's flimsy standards. It doesn't matter how good your heritage players are, there has to be some reasonable structures in place below it. In Scotland there isn't at the moment. 

Not quite true, Scotland does have some structures under the top level, with student and age group teams. Open age is a problem for them though and the roots are pretty weak in general. 

Scotland also had a number of students in the team yesterday so really it won’t be representative at all of the team that will be playing in the coming weeks

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1 minute ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

Why have Scotland been playing 'home' games in Cumbria? 

They havent. 

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That scoreline doesn't augur well if Scotland pick up any early injuries, especially to their main players.

Edited by deluded pom?

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2 minutes ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

Why have Scotland been playing 'home' games in Cumbria? 

Those games were part of tournaments where Scotland wasn't  one of the hosts.

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As further evidence of how unsatisfactory the Scottish situation is, there is now more RL played in Thailand than Scotland, and not by expats and heritage players either. There is a developing nations tournament coming up in Thailand, featuring Thais, Philippines, Australian Hungary RL and South Africa.

https://www.facebook.com/trla.or.th/

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