12 Nov: RLWC2017 (Group A): England v France - Match Thread

[EagleEyePie]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I think it is harsh to lay the blame of the performance going down hill on the forwards interchange.  Walmsley, Taylor and Burgess added plenty of go forward, it wasn't tgeir fault the spine stopped executing. 

Far more telling was Gale going off as the disruption in the half back play interrpted all of England's fluidity.

Take one of the starting half backs off in any game and it will have an effect.... especially one that was going so well.

I'm not saying the forwards that came on played badly necessarily, just that by bringing on three very similar players, who are all very direct but not necessarily ball handlers in the way that Graham, Hill and O'Loughlin are, the whole pattern of attack completely changed. Plus there's a bit of a difference in terms of experience between the players going off and those coming on too.

Also, as you mentioned, Gale going off at the same time also caused disruption. However, I think things started to break down before the halves were even getting their hands on the ball, and their poor decision making simply compounded their problems.

[Marv Woodburn]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

A poorly managed Catalans shouldn't mean that there can't be more French teams. There are many English clubs equally mismanaged, should we give up on all English clubs as a result?

It is precisely because Catalans have a monopoly that they are complacent and mismanaged. If they had to compete with another French club it would drive both clubs to a higher level. It would also give French players more options other than Catalans. The same arguments can also be said for NZ warriors in New Zealand. 

French players have other options, Morgan Escare, Gadwin Springer and Theo Fages amongst others have taken advantage of those options.

Your still missing the point, you could have 11 French teams in SL, they will all have to find players, there arent enough players ready, so they would go to the UK or Australia for players in key positions to "drive them to a higher level"

[Scubby]

3 hours ago, Allora said:

Playing in the pack should all be similar, not like he was at Fullback.

He dropped the ball and knocked on more than any player I have seen in recent times, that is a basic skill regardless where you play.

 

Wade Graham (second row) and Aaron Woods (prop) both play in the pack. Look where they both stand on the field.

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, Marv Woodburn said:

Your still missing the point

I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree with it. 

[Marv Woodburn]

Just now, Damien said:

I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree with it. 

So you think if Toulouse make SL they will have a team of ready to go French players then?

[londonrlfan]

53 minutes ago, Marv Woodburn said:

has nothing to do with having more french teams in SL. look at Catalans team right now over the last few years they have started to look like PSG mk2!

If Toulouse were in SL do you think France would magic a pool of players from nowhere? No, they would sign a bunch of Englishmen or Aussies

while ANY french club continually look overseas for players in key postions they will never improve the French team

France will only improve when players start coming from bigger cities. There's only so many good RL players that can come from Carcassonne, Lezignan etc. Toulouse and Marseille both are producing players, but we need to get into Lyon, Bordeaux, Paris and northern France too. 

[Marv Woodburn]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

France will only improve when players start coming from bigger cities. There's only so many good RL players that can come from Carcassonne, Lezignan etc. Toulouse and Marseille both are producing players, but we need to get into Lyon, Bordeaux, Paris and northern France too. 

You could say that about England! I think some of the athletes London have produced shows this

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Marv Woodburn said:

So you think if Toulouse make SL they will have a team of ready to go French players then?

Do any English clubs that make Super League have a team of ready to go English players or do you want different criteria for a French team? Indeed does any English Super League club currently  have a full English team and no imports? 

If another French Super League team only had 18 French players out of a squad of 25 its no worse than many Super League teams and is still 18 more full time French players for France to select from than they currently have. Even in the current French team if every player that is currently a part time player for Toulouse, or other French domestic club, was instead a full time player for a 2nd French Super League club the national team would instantly be far stronger. 

[londonrlfan]

3 minutes ago, Marv Woodburn said:

You could say that about England! I think some of the athletes London have produced shows this

Yeah I said that on the other thread ha. Australia and NZ have the big cities with the most population, England and France are situated around small towns, with the odd big city.

[Marv Woodburn]

Just now, Damien said:

Do any English clubs that make Super League have a team of ready to go English players or do you want different criteria for a French team? Indeed does any English Super League club currently  have a full English team and no imports? 

If another French Super League team only had 18 French players out of a squad of 25 its no worse than many Super League teams and is still 18 more full time French players for France to select from than they currently have. Even in the current French team if every player that is currently a part time player for Toulouse, or other French domestic club, was instead a full time player for a 2nd French Super League club the national team would instantly be far stronger. 

Well, yeah, theres 100s of guys knocking around the championship who could play SL what a ludicrous statement.

Catalan used to impose their own quota of 8 overseas players and for whatever reason the haven't over the last few years?

im not against a 2nd French team, I just dont think it will be any kind of success when the one we have is running near botttom of the league with hardly any French players in the run on side.

Look at the Dragons side of 2007-9 which had the likes of Mogg, Chan and Jones alongside guys like Thomas Bosc and Jamal Fakir they made the CC final and were 80 mins from a GF.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

France will only improve when players start coming from bigger cities. There's only so many good RL players that can come from Carcassonne, Lezignan etc. Toulouse and Marseille both are producing players, but we need to get into Lyon, Bordeaux, Paris and northern France too. 

This. It's all about increasing the player/talent pool. If funds could be found from somewhere I think introducing academy sides from Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux etc to play against elite 1 juniors would be a good idea.

[Scubby]

Just now, Marv Woodburn said:

Well, yeah, theres 100s of guys knocking around the championship who could play SL what a ludicrous statement.

Catalan used to impose their own quota of 8 overseas players and for whatever reason the haven't over the last few years?

im not against a 2nd French team, I just dont think it will be any kind of success when the one we have is running near botttom of the league with hardly any French players in the run on side.

Look at the Dragons side of 2007-9 which had the likes of Mogg, Chan and Jones alongside guys like Thomas Bosc and Jamal Fakir they made the CC final and were 80 mins from a GF.

When they had a majority of French players circa 2010-2013 where were they running?

[Marv Woodburn]

Just now, walter sobchak said:

This. It's all about increasing the player/talent pool. If funds could be found from somewhere I think introducing academy sides from Lyon, Marseille and Bordeaux etc to play against elite 1 juniors would be a good idea.

for me these kind of Ideas like the Dragons youth team playing English teams is going to improve French player pool, not just throwing another Club in at the coalface which naturally looks to ready made players

[Marv Woodburn]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

When they had a majority of French players circa 2010-2013 where were they running?

well we finished 6th in 2011 and fourth in 2012 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Marv Woodburn said:

for me these kind of Ideas like the Dragons youth team playing English teams is going to improve French player pool, not just throwing another Club in at the coalface which naturally looks to ready made players

Any decent youngsters from the academies of Marseille, Lyon and Bordeaux etc could be picked up by Catalans and Toulouse or maybe even elite1 clubs.

[Damien]

Just now, Marv Woodburn said:

Well, yeah, theres 100s of guys knocking around the championship who could play SL what a ludicrous statement.

No that is a ludicrous statement, I don't think you even know what you are arguing.  Why does every team in Super League have imports if there are these hundreds of people running about who can play Super League, why do many Championship teams?

[Scubby]

Just now, Marv Woodburn said:

well we finished 6th in 2011??

Catalans had a coach who believed in the French culture and French players around that time. It is no surprise they had an excellent group of core French players during that period.

The coach is so important to a club like Catalans.

[Marv Woodburn]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

No that is a ludicrous statement, I don't think you even know what you are arguing.  Why does every team in Super League have imports if there are these hundreds of people running about who can play Super League, why do many Championship teams?

what are you going on about?? There are loads of guys in the English championship who want a shot at SL and many who will get it one day. You cant say that about the LER!

Think about what your saying, and have a look round, does any other SL team have as many foreign players as Catalan? the old wakey side had less aussies

[Marv Woodburn]

Just now, Scubby said:

Catalans had a coach who believed in the French culture and French players around that time. It is no surprise they had an excellent group of core French players during that period.

The coach is so important to a club like Catalans.

I agree

[Trojan]

2 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Why was an English ref reffing - and worse still Bentham? Possibly the most anti-French of all the SL refs. 

Would he have given the French forward pass if it had been the Aussies?

It does England no favours by being pampered by SL refs when not playing the Aussies and then having to play by their refs when we play Australia

But is was a forward pass, much more than any of those given by Thaler against England last week.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Marv Woodburn said:

what are you going on about?? There are loads of guys in the English championship who want a shot at SL and many who will get it one day. You cant say that about the LER!

So now it's gone from hundreds of guys in the Championship that can play Super League to loads of guys who just want a shot. I give up, if you can't even read and comprehend your own posts then there is little point debating them. 

[DavidM]

I think Bentham is the one who can say he’s done fine so far

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t change this side too much except have Hall, Watkins and Burgess for Ratchford, Bateman and Hill.

Was thinking much the same,Hall in for Ratchford. Can even see Percival and Currie in the centres.

[Marv Woodburn]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

So now it's gone from hundreds of guys in the Championship that can play Super League to loads of guys who just want a shot. I give up, if you can't even read and comprehend your own posts then there is little point debating them. 

Sorry I said ""hundreds" and then replaced that word with "loads" how you have arrived at "I cant read or comprehend my posts" suggests to me that your one of those guys who will just keep going until I get bored and off

You know as well as I do that the championship is a a tough league, streets ahead of the French LER so therefore there must be a number of players ready to play for any English club that might find itself in SL in the championship. Quite simple.

You seem to think that bringing another French club into SL would give France more players to choose from however, I know that the French LER is a poor standard of competition. Throwing these players into an environment that they are not ready for will not benefit them as you will be spreading the thin layer of French players over two teams and that will not improve the French one bit.

BTW you dont have to talk with me if its getting a bit too much for you though, I dont mind!

 

[RayCee]

I notice at junior level, the French are competitive but at senior level less so. That says to me a lot of French talent is going to waste. If the young French players had more opportunity to play RL at a higher level, the French national team would soon be much more competitive. At the moment, young French players realise their only real hope of improving is joining a UK team.Some are doing that, others stay at home and don't get what they need to progress. More French teams in the UK seems for now the way forward in helping RL in France  and giving more young French players the exposure they need. 

In any sport players slip through the cracks. There are some potential star players in the Championship who need their chance in a professional outfit to show what they are capable of. RL in Europe needs more fully professional teams to give the up and coming player the chance to shine. If in the short term the standard slips a little, that will soon pass. 

I think the French team in this WC showed that some of them playing in the UK has helped. The game is struggling in France but I saw signs that encouraged. They fought hard when their backs were to the wall. The attitude was really good.