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John Drake

25 Nov: RLWC2017 (Semi Final): England v Tonga - Match Thread

Who will win?  

83 members have voted

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  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      30
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      31
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      10
    • Tonga by 1 to 6 points
      8
    • Tonga by 7 to 12 points
      2
    • Tonga by 13 points or more
      2


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5 minutes ago, flyingking said:

Clearer image of the hand on Widdop. I do not think it is a broken tackle, therefore the tackle has been completed and so should have been a play the ball rather than continuation of play.

DPd99eZXUAAA-i3.jpg

Nah, its not tick Rugby it was a tackle burst without question imo.

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What a great game. Thought for the most part England were very good. For all the criticism Bateman has had I thought he had a really good game. It was a shame Hodgson went off injured as I thought he was having his best game this tournament as well. Thought our kicking game was better and our forwards were fantastic. 

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Fabulous match

Great performance for 70 minutes - incredibly exciting at the end!!

Some immense performances - Graham / Burgess T / Widdop / Walmsley / Whitehead in particular

 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Well no thats exactly my point.

I think we're talking about too different things.

If you change the rule to be a penalty anytime a defender touches the ball and it comes free it'd be wide open to abuse. It's the same if you change it automatically to play on every time it comes free. You'd end up with referees allowing play on from obvious knock ons. 

There is no perfect area here and you will never eliminate bad decisions. However, by placing the onus on the ball carrier to protect the ball they can at least have far fewer complaints if it does come free. They after all chose to hold it in a carry where it is more likely to come free.

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20 minutes ago, 7723 said:

What a great game. Thought for the most part England were very good. For all the criticism Bateman has had I thought he had a really good game. It was a shame Hodgson went off injured as I thought he was having his best game this tournament as well. Thought our kicking game was better and our forwards were fantastic. 

I didn't want to say that Hodgson going off made a big difference but it did!

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4 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I didn't want to say that Hodgson going off made a big difference but it did!

Yes, James Roby eh. Did nothing.

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31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nah, its not tick Rugby it was a tackle burst without question imo.

The relevant law of the game is

Broken tackle Where the player in possession is brought to the ground, a tackle is not effective if the hold on the player in possession is broken before he is grounded. 

I have gone through the BBC highlights video of the try frame by frame and at no point before Widdop is grounded does the Tonga defender remove both hands from him, therefore in my opinion the tackle is complete and it does not matter what happens after that point. When Ben Thaler gave the decision, I thought fair enough, it was only when I looked back at the highlights reel that I thought something is amiss. I am very glad that England were awarded the try as it means we are going to the World Cup Final. However they are doing so thanks to a try that was not scored in accordance with the laws of the game!

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I think you guys will argue this forever. Its not clear cut, Id hate to be the video ref if it was passed up to him and it should have been. Either way no matter what decision he made there would "experts" in the media and on footy forums like this one that would disagree. 

It was probably one of the all time best games I've ever seen. I was going for Tonga but I'm happy for England to get the win. I think Tonga have a victory already in the way they played in the World Cup, where as England needed to win today after what happened last world cup and to stop English media from pulling them apart. 

I hope but RLIF or the NRL do something with Tonga and don't just put them back in the toy box till next world cup.  They would be crazy if they didn't try and keep this team together and keep them playing consistant games every year. 

Looking forward to the final. Go England. 

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39 minutes ago, 7723 said:

What a great game. Thought for the most part England were very good. For all the criticism Bateman has had I thought he had a really good game. It was a shame Hodgson went off injured as I thought he was having his best game this tournament as well. Thought our kicking game was better and our forwards were fantastic. 

Nah, I blame him for us nearly losing. If he hadn't scored that last try we wouldn't have put the cue on the rack in the last few minutes! ;)

 

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

Fifita locked and loaded!

Hill  changed his outlook when he saw Fifita cock his arm

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3 hours ago, Random tiger said:

So Australian referee. Where are all the England conspiracy theories now? I am pleased England won because they can give Australia the contest. But I think they were lucky today. 

That's the point I think it was the right decision but it was close enough to mean I would've been uncomfortable if it was an English ref making it. 

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I tried to get a bit of extra sleep after the match - no such luck! My heart was still racing.

Then I put on TMS, and the tense finish to Day 3 of the Ashes Test made me even more awake.

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Well that was some game! 

England very lucky imo as the Tongans bombed a few good chances.

I dread to think how many points the Aussies are going to post in the final!

 

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1 minute ago, Roy Boy said:

Well that was some game! 

England very lucky imo as the Tongans bombed a few good chances.

I dread to think how many points the Aussies are going to post in the final!

 

That's the spirit!

They'll post less than they would have against Tonga.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think it causes the ref to blow a whistle when he doesnt need to. He also needs to make a 50.50 decision. For me if the defender has hit the ball just let it play on - Fifita didnt just knock on, he dropped the ball because Whitehead hit the ball. Whitehead is allowed to do that, and Fifita should be allowed to pick it back up and play on imho.

Whether he knocked on because of Whiteheads involvement or not he did knock on so you can't just play on. 

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Wow what a game, absolutely fantastic. Obviously it could have gone either way but credit to both teams. I thought England were absolutely fantastic and it was the best England performance since the last time we beat the Aussies. Great stuff!

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nobody should be punished. The tackler hasnt stripped and the carrier hasnt knocked on. 

Play on.

But the carrier has knocked on. He's dropped the ball forwards because he wasn't holding it securely. That's what a knock on is, whether it was accidentally touched or not in the process. The onus is in him to keep hold of the ball.

This is consistent with my view of the Wigan no try in the CCF.

You can't just release the ball because there's a hand in it and play on. The game would be a mess. Ball control is essential, especially under pressure. Under your interpretation, you'd be able to squeeze the ball out in any tackle situation and it wouldn't matter which way it went. 

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Midnight in Auckland and as ive been up since 3am i (the wife) need to call it a night. 

Wow. Incredible. The best sporting thing ive ever attended. Sat in the end which Tonga scored and it didnt stop shaking from 1hoir before till we left. When they scored... woof!! Theres still Tongans running around the city waving their flags.

For 70 minutes we looked wonderful without the ball. Proper dug in and belted them.  Their 6 caused us problems but we will face a more 'structured' team on Saturday. 

With the ball.. were 20/30 points better than that. Not massively impressed with Gales kicking game and before half time we should have scored were it not for a poor ball from dummy half and Roby at 2nd receiver. Why dont we keep it simple!? 

Graham, Walmsley, Whitehead and Hill were brilliant. 

Im really not coherent but we can improve and with a bit of luck.. who knows. 

Incredible day. Absolutely incredible. 

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36 minutes ago, flyingking said:

The relevant law of the game is

Broken tackle Where the player in possession is brought to the ground, a tackle is not effective if the hold on the player in possession is broken before he is grounded. 

I have gone through the BBC highlights video of the try frame by frame and at no point before Widdop is grounded does the Tonga defender remove both hands from him, therefore in my opinion the tackle is complete and it does not matter what happens after that point. When Ben Thaler gave the decision, I thought fair enough, it was only when I looked back at the highlights reel that I thought something is amiss. I am very glad that England were awarded the try as it means we are going to the World Cup Final. However they are doing so thanks to a try that was not scored in accordance with the laws of the game!

I don't know how you find the time to post on here, what with you being the video ref over in Auckland at the same time. :O  :smile:

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23 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

Well that was some game! 

England very lucky imo as the Tongans bombed a few good chances.

I dread to think how many points the Aussies are going to post in the final!

 

I didn't see it as luck, though. I saw it as Tonga not being good enough, skilful enough,  to take those chances.:smile:

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5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Whether he knocked on because of Whiteheads involvement or not he did knock on so you can't just play on. 

Here's where it becomes even more of a mess than it is now. The defending player basically cannot go near the ball for fear of touching it and it coming loose. After all, had it happened in the middle of the pitch Fifita would have another 6 tackles. 

I think we'd see even more knock ons ruled incorrectly causing even more frustration. 

At least the way it is now the player is made responsible for ball possession. It's quite hard to strip a ball that is well protected. If a player moves the ball to a position where it is more likely to come out that is his decision and any 50/50 call goes against him.

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