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The Future is League

Women's NRL competition to start in 2018

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On 04/02/2018 at 12:43 AM, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Any news yet who the teams are and when the actually dates are?

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Planning ahead is not a strong point in RL.

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On 04/02/2018 at 11:43 AM, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Any news yet who the teams are and when the actually dates are?

Pretty much every team that has said anything on the subject have said that they are interested in the competition, but very few have been clear on whether or not they are actually going to bid for a license except the Raiders who've said they definitely aren't bidding for one.

It'll be very interesting if either the Broncos or NZ decide not to bid, cause that'd completely screw the NRLs' plans and would force them to either postpone the competition for at least a year, allow non-NRL clubs to bid for licenses, or operate and fund the Brisbane and/or NZ clubs for themselves.

On the dates, the comp will run alongside the NRL finals, most of the games are expected to be certain raisers to finals games and the grand final will replace the under 20s game on GF day, so September through to the first week of October.

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The gauntlet has been thrown down by the AFL. 41,000 to see Fremantle v Collingwood today. $2 a ticket.

I really would be expecting to see team names and an outline by now from the NRL.

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On 06/02/2018 at 3:01 AM, The Great Dane said:

Pretty much every team that has said anything on the subject have said that they are interested in the competition, but very few have been clear on whether or not they are actually going to bid for a license except the Raiders who've said they definitely aren't bidding for one.

It'll be very interesting if either the Broncos or NZ decide not to bid, cause that'd completely screw the NRLs' plans and would force them to either postpone the competition for at least a year, allow non-NRL clubs to bid for licenses, or operate and fund the Brisbane and/or NZ clubs for themselves.

On the dates, the comp will run alongside the NRL finals, most of the games are expected to be certain raisers to finals games and the grand final will replace the under 20s game on GF day, so September through to the first week of October.

The Raiders do have a team in the Tarsha Gale cup though and the new female Valkyrie logo. 

I reckon they’ll be in for season 2 or 3.

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On 11/02/2018 at 6:01 AM, gingerjon said:

The gauntlet has been thrown down by the AFL. 41,000 to see Fremantle v Collingwood today. $2 a ticket.

I really would be expecting to see team names and an outline by now from the NRL.

Frankly who cares what the AFL are doing!

We shouldn't base all our business plans around what the AFL is doing, what's good for them and whats good for us aren't necessarily the same thing, and this stupid game of keeping up with the Joneses that we play as a sport does more to hurt us then help us more often then not.

Frankly, the AFLW is a sham, that was the first game that they charged entry for and only because it was the first game at a brand new stadium in Perth where they weren't even going to play the game until a few months ago when the AFL heard that the first game at the new stadium would be NRL games so they panicked and chucked the AFLW game at it dispite them making an even bigger loss by playing the game their just so the NRL wouldn't get in first!

The AFLW it's self doesn't make a cent it's completely subsidised by the AFL, three quarters of the players weren't AFL players before joining the AFLW and most had never played Aussie Rules at all let alone at a serious level before joining the AFLW, the popularity of the AFLW is completely built on novelty that is already dying, and even then it's only been as popular as it is because of a huge push by the media, journos, and AFL personalities all wanting to make out that it's a bigger deal then it is so that everybody can see how virtuous they are by having and supporting a women's comp.   

At it's core the AFLW if an expensive publicity stunt, that's it, I don't want the a women's national Rugby League comp to be a publicity stunt cause it has so much more potential then that. Unfortunately that is the route that the NRL is going as they desperately try to get a comp out as quick as possible, instead of taking their time and building it into an actual self sustaining product in it's own right.

The Raiders have the right idea (which is a bloody rare thing for the Raiders as both Copa and I could tell you), they aren't fast tracking the women's team just to get it out in time for the comp later this year, they are taking their time developing players, creating and (hopefully) building up an independent brand for the girls to play under, building them their own change rooms at Raiders HQ and the ground that they'll play at, Gauging public interest in the product, etc, they are doing that so that the Valkyrie are given the best chance of success possible and are given the opportunity to build into a self sustaining and respected part of the organisation, instead of pushing them through for the brownie points that they'll win in the media but at the expense of the quality, sustainability, and respectability of the product.

Unfortunately the NRL aren't doing this, they are going to just chuck the women's league together as quick as possible so they don't 'fall behind the AFL', whatever that means, and damn the consequences, such as the WNRL becoming a sham and a money pit long term when it could be so much more! When what they should be doing right now is sounding out broadcasters to see how much a women's NRL would be worth to them instead of just tacking it onto the finals and giving it to Nine for nothing...

Rant over. 

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You have a point Dane but the NRL are probably worried about losing first mover advantage to AFL. Media will drive participation (to an extent) and certainly sponsorship. If there are corporate partners out there wanting to get on the bandwagon of women’s sport, the NRL will not want to lose out to the AFL in that. Any new start up, which is what the women’s game is effectively, often loses money in the first few years but if the AFL get first mover advantage, they could embed themselves.

Generally I dislike constant comparisons with other sports like union and Aussie rules but I think there’s some use in comparing in this instance 

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1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

You have a point Dane but the NRL are probably worried about losing first mover advantage to AFL. Media will drive participation (to an extent) and certainly sponsorship. If there are corporate partners out there wanting to get on the bandwagon of women’s sport, the NRL will not want to lose out to the AFL in that. Any new start up, which is what the women’s game is effectively, often loses money in the first few years but if the AFL get first mover advantage, they could embed themselves.

Generally I dislike constant comparisons with other sports like union and Aussie rules but I think there’s some use in comparing in this instance 

AFLW is being almost exclusively sponsored by pre-existing AFL and AFL clubs sponsors.

That's one of the issues that I have, I imagine to get the comp out as quickly as possible that the NRL and NRL clubs will copy the AFL and AFL clubs and wont look into the possible sponsorship value or attracting new sponsors and signing independent deals for the women's teams and will just look to marginally expand their deals with pre-existing sponsors instead of taking their time and doing it right by putting the word out and seeing what the actual value of the sponsorship is...

As I said before they aren't trying to make a new product that is self sustaining and respected in it's own right they are trying to get the publicity and virtue signal out of it.

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24 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

AFLW is being almost exclusively sponsored by pre-existing AFL and AFL clubs sponsors.

That's one of the issues that I have, I imagine to get the comp out as quickly as possible that the NRL and NRL clubs will copy the AFL and AFL clubs and wont look into the possible sponsorship value or attracting new sponsors and signing independent deals for the women's teams and will just look to marginally expand their deals with pre-existing sponsors instead of taking their time and doing it right by putting the word out and seeing what the actual value of the sponsorship is...

As I said before they aren't trying to make a new product that is self sustaining and respected in it's own right they are trying to get the publicity and virtue signal out of it.

Publicity may bring about that self sufficiency though if it brings about new sponsors. 

I agree with the sustainability point you make though and one of the main gripes I have with the RFL is that the international game and sponsorship is often an afterthought and they just get add-on sponsors from the general game, although admittedly it is hard to sell sometimes when you don’t know what you’re even playing 

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I've done some research and it looks like the bubble might be bursting for the NRL...

According to the article below the only non-Sydney club confirmed to be bidding for a license for this season is Brisbane, which is part right and part wrong, NZ and Newcastle are bidding, but talk is that NZ aren't keen on taking on the added costs of supporting another professional trans-Tasman team and are constantly flip flopping on whether or not they'll accept a license if their bid is accepted and want financial support from the NRL to support their team, their owner putting them up for sale and the uncertainty of their situation currently is also effecting their decision on the bidding or not and what form the bid would take, and the Knights are bidding as well but again they haven't decided whether or not they'll accept the license and want to look at the NRL's business plan to make sure that that the comp and team will be "cost effective" before they accept, in other words they want a massive boost to their grants and other subsidies if they do enter the women's comp.  

The Storm are again a club that has flip flopped publicly but now say that it's unlikely that they'll bid for this year but definitely will bid in the future, talk is (admittedly much less reliable talk then the NZ talk mind you, but it is realistically possible) that most of the Storms problem is infighting with one group of the people in power at the club wanting the women's team to be based in Melbourne with the rest of the RL club and the other group wanting the women's team to be based out of and representing the Sunshine coast like their netball team the  Sunshine Coast Lightning and their under 20's. 

The rest of the non-Sydney clubs (GC, NQ, Canberra)have straight up said no.

Of the Sydney clubs, Manly and Penrith definitely aren't bidding, Wests are "unlikely", and the Dogs are "undecided", leaving Souths, Easts, Saints, Cronulla, and Parra bidding, though Parra has flip flopped too, though why they have flip flopped isn't clear at all.

That leaves the NRL with only 5 clubs that are definitely confirmed to be bidding and will definitely take up the license if they win one (Bris, Cronulla, Souths, Easts, Saints), 3 clubs that officially are bidding but may or may not actually be serious about it when it comes to the end of the day (NZ, Newcastle, and Parra), 3 clubs that are unlikely/undecided (Melbourne, Wests, Canterbury), and the rest who definitely aren't. You might say that isn't so bad but the clubs have till the 16th to place their bids so if the Storm, Wests, and Dogs do end up bidding they'll have left it to the absolute last minute and it's unlikely that they'll have fully fleshed out bids. 

The whole thing is looking dodgy for the NRL to say the least considering that preferably they wanted 6 clubs with at least 2 from Queensland, 1 from NZ, 2 from Sydney, and one more from outside of Sydney. There's little chance that they are going to get 6 teams at all let alone a spread anything like that unless they are willing to be bent over a barrel for it, and either way it's more likely then not that the comp will be heavily slanted towards Sydney which would be a terrible way to start out. And of the clubs that are definitely bidding only two (Sharks and Dragons) have had serious and well supported women's programs prior to this year, other clubs have had women's teams and programs that take their name but those teams haven't actually administered them themselves, they've been run by their juniors organisations or in association with their club, so most of the clubs will have had basically no women's programs that they have been directly responsible for prior to the women's national comp.

Also none of the clubs have shown any interest in creating separate branding or a separate image for their women's teams, apart from the Raiders who aren't bidding, which also is a bad sign, sure they could simply have not made it public yet or they might be waiting until their place in the comp is confirmed before starting the process (if that's the case it'll be rushed anyway), but I doubt it as most of the clubs only seem to be in it for the potential extra funding or publicity and look like they plan to run their women's teams as cheaply as possible like the AFL clubs.  

Anyway if the NRL want to get the best result possible it might be time for them to start getting proactive and sounding out clubs that aren't bidding about why they aren't bidding and trying to placate them to get them into the comp or to start considering taking non-NRL club bids into account.

NRL women’s competition undermined by lack of interest from non-Sydney clubs

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I take issue with them possibly being played as a double header with an NRL finals match. It’s highly likely the women’s teams involved won’t even be from the NRL clubs playing in the final. That makes it very expensive to go and watch your club’s women’s team play.

I’d like it if the Raiders women’s team played separately at Mckellar soccer centre (if the field size permits it) and season ticket holders get in for free, first in best dressed. It’s a ground that is known for women’s sport too. 

Edited by Copa

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47 minutes ago, Copa said:

I take issue with them possibly being played as a double header with an NRL finals match. It’s highly likely the women’s teams involved won’t even be from the NRL clubs playing in the final. That makes it very expensive to go and watch your club’s women’s team play.

Yeah it's stupid, but the way that the whole thing is being handled so far has been stupid.

47 minutes ago, Copa said:

I’d like it if the Raiders women’s team played separately at Mckellar soccer centre (if the field size permits it) and season ticket holders get in for free, first in best dressed. It’s a ground that is known for women’s sport too. 

Nah, Mckellar park is owned by the Belconnen soccer club, the Raiders would be paying a direct competitor to host their games and they'd be delivering customers straight to one of BSC's leagues clubs. Same goes for Deakin stadium (owned by the Canberra Deakin Football Club) and Viking park in Erindale (owned by the Tuggeranong Vikings). Pretty much all the smaller stadiums in Canberra that would be ideal are owned by competitors.

They'd be better off having them play out on the field at Raiders Belconnen. In a perfect world they'd sink a bit of money into the field and build another small stand onto the side of the pitch opposite the club where the current seating is, but that might be asking to much. 

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On 11/02/2018 at 6:01 AM, gingerjon said:

The gauntlet has been thrown down by the AFL. 41,000 to see Fremantle v Collingwood today. $2 a ticket.

I really would be expecting to see team names and an outline by now from the NRL.

It was also a brand new stadium that was in the media for years before being finished. So while I don’t want to take anything away from the women who played, many were there to see the stadium.

The AFLW is humming along quite nicely for the AFL however a very recent incident highlighted how unimportant some in afl house consider it. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/feb/18/no-budget-aflw-slammed-by-starcevich-for-lighting-safety-hazard

 

43A9D31F-C68E-4B3A-8C9C-EB746A5D8FC3.jpeg

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On 14/02/2018 at 10:05 PM, The Great Dane said:

Yeah it's stupid, but the way that the whole thing is being handled so far has been stupid.

Nah, Mckellar park is owned by the Belconnen soccer club, the Raiders would be paying a direct competitor to host their games and they'd be delivering customers straight to one of BSC's leagues clubs. Same goes for Deakin stadium (owned by the Canberra Deakin Football Club) and Viking park in Erindale (owned by the Tuggeranong Vikings). Pretty much all the smaller stadiums in Canberra that would be ideal are owned by competitors.

They'd be better off having them play out on the field at Raiders Belconnen. In a perfect world they'd sink a bit of money into the field and build another small stand onto the side of the pitch opposite the club where the current seating is, but that might be asking to much. 

All good points. I’m not sure how they’d fit a stand on the other side of the pitch at Belconnen. They could fit in a very narrow one I guess. Same for a steep stand at the kippax shops end of the ground. The crowd could park at the kippax shops.

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I don't see the urgency. They had State-based comps last year which seemed quite functional so why not keep that formula running until there is enough support from NRL (or other) clubs? State-based Men's comps survived for 80 years before we went National. Will Women's RL die if it remains State-based for another 2 years? State-based comps also allow for growth in the available player base and thus, the standard of the game.

I know there is the AFL/NRL battle but, from my limited observation, the AFL didn't WOW!! anyone this season.

 

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That's a bit disappointing - only 4 teams - but I guess that means that the State comps will have a season before the NRL season starts. I haven't read the details yet.

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Gotta love the fact that the Cronulla Sharks who were extremely proactive to launch a women's team are not in. Plenty of news about it in 2017.

Sharks CEO is extremely unhappy with that decision.

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6 hours ago, Vichyssoise said:

Gotta love the fact that the Cronulla Sharks who were extremely proactive to launch a women's team are not in. Plenty of news about it in 2017.

Sharks CEO is extremely unhappy with that decision.

Meh, St. George have been just as supportive of women's RL and for just as long, and commercially and geographically it was always going to make more sense for the Dragons to get the nod over the Sharks.

Don't take this the wrong way but in a perfect world the Sharks would probably never get a club, cause unless the NRL plans to copy all the mistakes made in the NRL (which btw they probably do) you'd only have 4-5 Sydney clubs in the comp, East Sydney and South Sydney are covered, that leaves North, Inner West, and Western Sydney to go... 

But as I said they're probably going to copy the the men's league so you'll get a team eventually.

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6 hours ago, Copa said:

Interesting article about where some of the athletes come from.

There are RL players who also play national union 7s, the national women’s union team and also  national level soccer players.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl-could-pick-up-cross-code-female-athletes-but-it-may-not-last/news-story/fa6ea412c6fdd40718530562b6fc9367

It’s a fairly similar situation with the onset of the Women’s SL over here. 

Interesting about how developed the women’s 7’s, honestly did not know they were full time and competed in the World Series too. A lot of catching up to do for us

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