Wolfpack developing domestic players

[Bradmack]

I posted this in a forum talking about player development in North America, and what the wolfpack were or werent doing... You guys will probably have more interest in it though as it is Ontario specific. Just my idea of where the Wolfpack should be focusing their efforts. Please excuse the over explanation of Canadian things, the other thread was full of non Canadians. Anyways, tell me what you think!

 

In Canada developing players is tough in almost every niche sport because we're such a big, spread out country. You really need to break it down into regions because it simply costs too much for domestic clubs to travel around the country. Even in Hockey where our CHL (u-20) league has teams with average attendences of anywhere from 2000 to 14000, there is still regional divided competetion.  Usually the 3 regions we look at here are the west (BC to Manitoba), Ontario, and the east (Quebec+Maritimes) but in Rugby League there are 3 regions where RL is played and officially recognized by Canada Rugby League... Those are BC, Ontario and Alberta. If the Wolfpack are serious about the development of Canadian players they need to be involved in the domestic amatuer leagues.

It would be relatively easy for them to put a team in Ontario Rugby League, call the team TWP 2, let an older player or assistant coach the team, and hold open tryouts. The problem is with the actual league itself. They simply dont play enough games. I'm not from Ontario but as far as I can tell they only play a few games a season and there are only 4 teams. Union absolutely dominates in Canada, and thats probably why there are so few games, the players are busy playing union. The league would need to be revamped and probably sponsored by the team so that more games could be played. A ten game season with a 2 round playoffs would be more than triple the amount of games played most seasons.

If Hamilton do get an expansion team then I can see a partnership with the Wolfpack on revamping ORL (Ontario Rugby League). Think about it, 2 pro rugby teams in Ontario come in out of no where and theyre both League code... You've got to think any elite players would make the choice to devote themselves to ORL instead of Union because of the possibility of going pro in League, and the fact you'd be getting seen playing against Wolfpack 2 or Hamilton 2. All of a sudden you could have a stronger ORL and more games and practices, with a couple of squads (Wolfpack and Hamilton) possibly offering high level coaching (or atleast coached by vet players/recently retired players). ORL also already has a junior system established so it would be perfect to put teams into that as well. All of this might still take a few years just to develop one or two players but it is a no lose situation because of the relatively low financial risk and the potentially high rewards. Having a homegrown Canadian is marketing gold for all the Canadian MLS teams, and while youre trying to grow a player, youre also growing interest in the game because of all the players who would be playing in ORL. This is extremely dependent on Hamilton or another Ontario city getting a pro club though as the local pro opportunity is the only thing I could see shifting the local players focus to League, there are 10 competitions, across 6 divisions of mens amatuer Union in Ontario, and they are well organized with sponsorship, pro/rel, etc. 

Putting some sort of Academy or sataliete team in the BC league would be nice too as its currently stronger, but that would be significantly more expensive. Its not impossible as the Vancouver Whitecaps of MLS have these set up all over Canada and the results are starting to come in with players signing for their first and reserve teams, but theyre very rich and ambitious and in Canada soccer vs RL is apples to oranges. 

[Bradmack]

In another thread I read that the wolfpack are working with Ontario universities to develop Usports programs, if that comes to fruition along with a revamped ORL (along the lines that I talk about) it would be fantastic. It would allow players to play ORL in the summer and then go play with their school teams, getting players more games and training, and also create potential pathways to university for kids who play League, or in other words...Another incentive to play. 

[manu266]

I know that Eric Perez put a lot of efforts and time in a domestic league and in the Canadian national team prior to his Wolfpack journey.

The problem is they don't have enough players to get more than 4 teams in the Toronto region. And my understanding is that this season they had to merge 4 teams into 2 despite the Wolfpack effect.

In 2012 they started a team in Ottawa, people from Montreal were asked to join. But it is difficult for us to travel to Ottawa midweek for training (training ground was actually on the Quebec side of Ottawa region) , and on weekend to Toronto for games. To my knowledge it was the very first RL attempt in Quebec or close enough to it., but it didn't work at all.

AFL Canada is way more successful in recruiting players here, they a have a strong amateur league system, they have a very active mini league in Montreal, and teams in the Atlantic region too (and probably the same in the West). The game is more accessible to anyone. In that league I met a lot of Queenslanders not particularly interested in AFL but they realised they simply don't have the body to play RL or RU, but still wanted to plays something Australian while living abroad.

So the key is probably to convert the huge RU base in big cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and everything in between. So far I haven't seen any big movements in that direction, although the RU world in Montreal is aware of the Wolfpack adventure, I've seen some Wolfpack hats this season at RU games. This has to start in Toronto though as we won't get any team in Montreal in the near future, and yes starting with universities and even high schools is probably an excellent idea too.

[Kayakman]

19 minutes ago, manu266 said:

  starting with universities and even high schools is probably an excellent idea too.

If you look at the actual rules for high schools (e.g OFSAA in Ontario) only rugby UNION is sanctioned to be played and insured.  The fix is in but it could be changed, there is a process, but it is long and complicated.  That is why they are focusing on development through the club structures.

[TheReaper]

I think player numbers will make a league difficult.  This year after a couple games the merged the two Toronto teams, and Brantford and Burlington into "not Toronto".  If the WP starts an amateur team with tryouts,  you'd just get all the existing Toronto players, and a lot of the good ones from the other two.

Working with schools is a good idea on their part.  Their difficulty with high schools is that football is in the fall, and RU in the spring,  and at most schools your target players are already doing both. Universities being much larger might work out better. Even if they get 4 schools playing in a small league, I think that would probably be easier than getting 4 amateur clubs going.

At one time I thought WP would be smart to look at signing Ontario Blues players. With the Arrows starting up that looks like it will be harder, but I also think they may have been avoiding approaching them so as to not ###### of Rugby Ontario. 

[Bradmack]

My plan heavily relies on converting RU players to start. This requires the Hamilton team to be real. That may offer insight to why theyre looking at Hamilton for expansion. More pro opportunities will convert serious RU guys, the Arrows throw a wrench into that but who knows if they'll even work out and what their pay structure will be like. 

I think you start in the junior category and some sort of Wolfpack Academy and within a couple seasons relaunch ORL. You need to get community outreach going now with Wolfpack players in schools talking to kids about the game, holding fun focused camps for kids and pamphlets/info sessions for parents about how much safer League is compared to union and football. I think parents are now well informed about the dangers of football and head injuries and would think rugby was even more dangerous until they are informed of the rules in place (no high tackle, shoulder charge, lifting tackle) and the absence of real scrums that make League a safer code to play. Player safety, and real pro opportunity is where you make a dent in my mind, and once that is established everything comes a lot easier. 

Of course all of this doubles as marketing for the Wolfpack as more people will become aware of them, and if their kids play or even show an interest because a player showed up at their school or even take a pamphlet home, it could lead to more people checking out a game at Lamport.

[RayCee]

The comments here are well thought out but also show the huge task ahead. Not just doing things but doing things that will work. Also the size of the country and the need to view things regionally.

There was an audio file somewhere on this site that revealed Halifax (or somewhere in that direction) had a solid RL system back in the 50s and 60s but died out. 

[Harry Stottle]

Sorry for the intrusion guys, but the lead line of the thread attracted me to read further as this is a question I have posed many times on the General Topic board.

I must say it is refreshing to actually be given some insight as to the obstacles and hurdles that need to be overcome for the advancement of the game in Canada.

Some of you may have read some of my posts on the other platform and consider I am against expansion in North America, that can not be further from the truth, but I get castigated for asking pertinent questions or saying "what if" because I like to know how things work and I delve a little deeper than most and quite honestly some of the comments made by my fellow country men are simply of pre-juvenile quality, made without any substance or knowledge of the matter.

For what it is worth, all this talk of new clubs in N. America sprouting up like mushrooms does set alarm bells ringing for me, I consider TWP as being a work in progress and it should be evaluated and monitered to see if the model requires modification before we set out en-route to mass expansion. 

I do have concerns nearer to home that being for the game in the UK, presently we have 12 SL teams and the game in the UK cannot provide enough quality SL players to furnish even those teams that is why we have to employ 60+ antipodeans who may I add are not all (if any) of NRL quality otherwise they would be employed and making more money in the NRL.........and still be at home. 

It is obviously the case that Mr Argyle and Mr Perez and any other entities Owners and Cheif Exec's that may come into being will want their respective teams in the top division and I hope that in time they will achieve their goal, but the game structure presently employed in the UK cannot sustain a player drain of our best players, as some people rightly say it is a hard demanding sport with a short career and who can object to any player making the maximum money his skill level can attract, that is why it is imperative that the game in Canada prospers beyond the professional game, not only for the sport over there but here also.

Could I be so bold as to ask what or how you see those guy's from other denominations who we are told are in plentiful supply especially those who have not been quite good enough to make a living pricipally the ex Gridiron players, I have no doubt whatsoever that some will have all the attributes and qualities to make the transition to RL, but I do not understand how they will be nurtured and coached into acheiving that, if anyone can please offer some ideas I would appreciate it.

PS to Kayakman, could I please just clarify that I am my own person and not as you assume have a double identity, and it is also refreshing to see you posting in joined up thoughts, not just flag waving to entice those you know are hard of thinking.

 

 

 

[Kayakman]

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time!

[Harry Stottle]

57 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time!

Well I tried,

I still see that you avoid sensible discussion though.

[ojx]

Why should the Wolfpack target Canadian RU players? They are really bad, as their recent losses have illustrated. Even if the entire Canadian RU team converted to RL and played for the Wolfpack, they would struggle to compete in League One.

[ojx]

Toronto really need a feeder team in an improved USARL or perhaps the new Moore Sports venture. This is where North American players can be converted and learn the game. Hopefully this is something that is on the horizon. Quality coaches would be needed for this team.

Building an amateur game is of little value for creating high performance players, and RL has little chance of converting RU clubs who already have the fields and infrastructure in place.  If volunteers make a few clubs over the next few years then that is great, but it is not the Wolfpack's job. They need to develop elite pathways for athletes. This would need a feeder team and some lower league exposure in England.  Duel reg with a League One club could be a real benefit. If Manchester Rangers ever enter League One they would be ideal, due to the new location of the Wolfpack training base.

[Krzzystuff]

6 minutes ago, ojx said:

Toronto really need a feeder team in an improved USARL or perhaps the new Moore Sports venture. This is where North American players can be converted and learn the game. Hopefully this is something that is on the horizon. Quality coaches would be needed for this team.

Building an amateur game is of little value for creating high performance players, and RL has little chance of converting RU clubs who already have the fields and infrastructure in place.  If volunteers make a few clubs over the next few years then that is great, but it is not the Wolfpack's job. They need to develop elite pathways for athletes. This would need a feeder team and some lower league exposure in England.  Duel reg with a League One club could be a real benefit. If Manchester Rangers ever enter League One they would be ideal, due to the new location of the Wolfpack training base.

they are already a sponsor of the USARL so i'd expect them to be working with them on player development and pathways into the pro game 

[TheReaper]

2 hours ago, ojx said:

Why should the Wolfpack target Canadian RU players? They are really bad, as their recent losses have illustrated. Even if the entire Canadian RU team converted to RL and played for the Wolfpack, they would struggle to compete in League One.

Well if everyone demands Canadian players, where the heck else are they gonna get them? You can't ignore RU players, assume football players are impossible to train, and expect any significant number of players in the next ten years. 

Seems like a lot of people want it to take forever to accomplish nothing, like most of the other clubs.

[Bradmack]

2 hours ago, ojx said:

Why should the Wolfpack target Canadian RU players? They are really bad, as their recent losses have illustrated. Even if the entire Canadian RU team converted to RL and played for the Wolfpack, they would struggle to compete in League One.

The idea is not simply "steal the Canadian Union team" as that would be just like saying "sign the Canadian League team" they just aren't good enough for the most part. The idea is to convert elite Union and Gridiron players in Ontario to playing League so that we have an actual amatuer system with a real schedule instead of a 2 game series every summer. Once there is an established league, the Wolfpack would be able to start a development team (u21) with high level coaching and put them in that league.

Think of it like what Toronto FC are doing with their reserve teams. They have the Academy team (TFC3) in League One Ontario, an amatuer league with semi pro standards. They play against men in that league, they might not win every game but they are challenged every week and develop. When they have a player who excels at that level they sign them to TFC2 which plays at a D3 level in the USL. The Wolfpack don't have that option currently so they'd likely sign the player and loan him out to a league one team. That's where the player earns pro experience and further develops. Finally, when the player excels at TFC2 they are signed with the first team in MLS. The most shining example of this is working for TFC is Raheem Edwards, but other players have come out of league 1 Ontario and done extremely well, some even skipping the USL like Cyle Larin and Mo Babouli (although he was unjustly cut because the coaching staff is extremely biased towards Americans)... 

We need the Union and Gridiron converts so that there are actually people playing Rugby League, not because the first batch of them are going to be Super League stars. Who knows, maybe someone will surprise, but thats not the important thing here. Player development takes time, and we need to create an environment where players will get the time to develop.

[Captain Survival]

On 12/8/2017 at 5:16 AM, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry for the intrusion guys, but the lead line of the thread attracted me to read further as this is a question I have posed many times on the General Topic board.

I must say it is refreshing to actually be given some insight as to the obstacles and hurdles that need to be overcome for the advancement of the game in Canada.

Some of you may have read some of my posts on the other platform and consider I am against expansion in North America, that can not be further from the truth, but I get castigated for asking pertinent questions or saying "what if" because I like to know how things work and I delve a little deeper than most and quite honestly some of the comments made by my fellow country men are simply of pre-juvenile quality, made without any substance or knowledge of the matter.

For what it is worth, all this talk of new clubs in N. America sprouting up like mushrooms does set alarm bells ringing for me, I consider TWP as being a work in progress and it should be evaluated and monitered to see if the model requires modification before we set out en-route to mass expansion. 

I do have concerns nearer to home that being for the game in the UK, presently we have 12 SL teams and the game in the UK cannot provide enough quality SL players to furnish even those teams that is why we have to employ 60+ antipodeans who may I add are not all (if any) of NRL quality otherwise they would be employed and making more money in the NRL.........and still be at home. 

It is obviously the case that Mr Argyle and Mr Perez and any other entities Owners and Cheif Exec's that may come into being will want their respective teams in the top division and I hope that in time they will achieve their goal, but the game structure presently employed in the UK cannot sustain a player drain of our best players, as some people rightly say it is a hard demanding sport with a short career and who can object to any player making the maximum money his skill level can attract, that is why it is imperative that the game in Canada prospers beyond the professional game, not only for the sport over there but here also.

Could I be so bold as to ask what or how you see those guy's from other denominations who we are told are in plentiful supply especially those who have not been quite good enough to make a living pricipally the ex Gridiron players, I have no doubt whatsoever that some will have all the attributes and qualities to make the transition to RL, but I do not understand how they will be nurtured and coached into acheiving that, if anyone can please offer some ideas I would appreciate it.

PS to Kayakman, could I please just clarify that I am my own person and not as you assume have a double identity, and it is also refreshing to see you posting in joined up thoughts, not just flag waving to entice those you know are hard of thinking.

 

 

 

Hi Harry.  I know a fellow Canadian has lingering doubts about your identity but you should also be aware he likes to "tweak noses" in order to see what sort of a response he obtains, for fun.  He got that habit from the pub at our university, appropriately named "The Bombshelter".....

As someone who played all the traditional Canadian sports - Canadian football, lacrosse, and also played rugby, I will say IMHO that if we gain a couple more successful high profile North American entrants into RL (Hamilton does not qualify as high profile) you will see many high quality athletes from physical sports start to give rugby a more serious look.   And many will have the skill sets other then the specific rugby knowledge to make the jump fairly easily. 

What I find fascinating on the general forum, but I have always refrained from commenting out specifically, is the belief among the diehard UK fans that pro RL rugby is some enormously difficult sport to master unless one has gone to an academy for 15 yrs, and so on.

And yet, from my perspective it is in fact one of the simplest to pick up and master. Hearsay I suspect to most.  But for a "gridiron" player who might have to master 50-100 set formations and has to deal with a rule book that is as thick as a bible rugby is a pretty straightforward affair.

Every sport has its idiosyncrasies and RL is no exception.  But I think as a former player in both sports that there is in fact an enormous pool of potential players here.  And I doubt even my fellow Canadians really have much experience with the intensity of what Americans who play football at the high school and college level go through for training and lifestyle as we do not have any real Canadian equivalent other then perhaps our hockey programs.

There are many high schools in the USA, particularly the southern USA, where the student eat, sleep and train 24/7/365.  Where games are played in front of crowds in excess of15k fans for each game.  Can you imagine that?  15,000 to 20,000 people attending a high school football game every week for an entire season?  With a full time well paid coaching staff, dedicated work out facilities that are on par with what one finds at a university, and more.

If RL gains a successful American foothold that is what it can tap into.  A machine for pumping out athletes.

This is an important perspective to remember.  Every 4 years the world has the Olympics, and the USA always runs away with the medal total.  The other important thing to remember is that most of the US athletes are the 2nd and 3rd tier of their country, with the best all having gone into a pro sport.  When you let the pros compete in the Olympics - basketball for the USA, hockey for the Nordic countries, the pros run away with it.

So what might happen if some of the 1st tier who in the end might not make the cut for the NFL decide to see where else they can earn a living.  The CFL (Canadian gridiron league) has been one outlet.  I think RL could end up being another, and it might also draw attention from the middle quality who know they could never aspire to the pros in gridiron.

The size of this pool is not in the hundreds, or even the thousands, but in tens of thousands, and some might even estimate more.  Its a lot.

But my speculations above are predicated upon successful launch of 2+ American RL teams.  Actually, on success of 2+ American teams, not successful launch.  They have to survive for 3+ yrs and make a notable impression on the sports psyche of the American public.  If we get to the point where we have a 6 team conference on this side of the pond, then the player pool will grow in leaps and bounds.

That is my 2 cents worth.  Not everyone is going to agree and we each are entitled to their own opinion.  But I though you would like to hear from someone who once upon a time played "gridiron", and had a bit of rugby in the mix as well (in high school), plus who has had exposure to the US factory system for producing athletes, and to professional sports at the business level.

What actually mystifies me the most and I think in its own way presents the most challenge for all North American interest is the complete ineptitude of SL and RL management.  There I think many of us would agree....

[RayCee]

Growing up in NZ, I tried RU but didn’t enjoy it nor that good at it. I took to RL like a bear to salmon. Everyone wanted me in their team. It shows that not every player can switch from RU to RL and the reverse.

As for what age a player can take up pro RL, like any sport the earlier the better. It doesn’t have to be toddler age but late teens is almost too late, even for a fine athlete playing say Gridiron. 

[Copa]

2 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

And I doubt even my fellow Canadians really have much experience with the intensity of what Americans who play football at the high school and college level go through for training and lifestyle as we do not have any real Canadian equivalent other then perhaps our hockey programs.

I attended a US high school for a year and what you say about intensity at high school level is correct. I joined the (American) football team and initially struggled with the up to 2 hours of high intensity training 5 days per week after school. We also did weight training 5 days per week during school hours.

I played in front of thousands and even played against a guy that went on to play in a super bowl. It was insane. People from the wider community would park and watch us train and we’d be all through local media.

If they take up any code of rugby with the same intensity then they’d be the best around.

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

Hi Harry.  I know a fellow Canadian has lingering doubts about your identity but you should also be aware he likes to "tweak noses" in order to see what sort of a response he obtains, for fun.  He got that habit from the pub at our university, appropriately named "The Bombshelter".....

As someone who played all the traditional Canadian sports - Canadian football, lacrosse, and also played rugby, I will say IMHO that if we gain a couple more successful high profile North American entrants into RL (Hamilton does not qualify as high profile) you will see many high quality athletes from physical sports start to give rugby a more serious look.   And many will have the skill sets other then the specific rugby knowledge to make the jump fairly easily. 

What I find fascinating on the general forum, but I have always refrained from commenting out specifically, is the belief among the diehard UK fans that pro RL rugby is some enormously difficult sport to master unless one has gone to an academy for 15 yrs, and so on.

And yet, from my perspective it is in fact one of the simplest to pick up and master. Hearsay I suspect to most.  But for a "gridiron" player who might have to master 50-100 set formations and has to deal with a rule book that is as thick as a bible rugby is a pretty straightforward affair.

Every sport has its idiosyncrasies and RL is no exception.  But I think as a former player in both sports that there is in fact an enormous pool of potential players here.  And I doubt even my fellow Canadians really have much experience with the intensity of what Americans who play football at the high school and college level go through for training and lifestyle as we do not have any real Canadian equivalent other then perhaps our hockey programs.

There are many high schools in the USA, particularly the southern USA, where the student eat, sleep and train 24/7/365.  Where games are played in front of crowds in excess of15k fans for each game.  Can you imagine that?  15,000 to 20,000 people attending a high school football game every week for an entire season?  With a full time well paid coaching staff, dedicated work out facilities that are on par with what one finds at a university, and more.

If RL gains a successful American foothold that is what it can tap into.  A machine for pumping out athletes.

This is an important perspective to remember.  Every 4 years the world has the Olympics, and the USA always runs away with the medal total.  The other important thing to remember is that most of the US athletes are the 2nd and 3rd tier of their country, with the best all having gone into a pro sport.  When you let the pros compete in the Olympics - basketball for the USA, hockey for the Nordic countries, the pros run away with it.

So what might happen if some of the 1st tier who in the end might not make the cut for the NFL decide to see where else they can earn a living.  The CFL (Canadian gridiron league) has been one outlet.  I think RL could end up being another, and it might also draw attention from the middle quality who know they could never aspire to the pros in gridiron.

The size of this pool is not in the hundreds, or even the thousands, but in tens of thousands, and some might even estimate more.  Its a lot.

But my speculations above are predicated upon successful launch of 2+ American RL teams.  Actually, on success of 2+ American teams, not successful launch.  They have to survive for 3+ yrs and make a notable impression on the sports psyche of the American public.  If we get to the point where we have a 6 team conference on this side of the pond, then the player pool will grow in leaps and bounds.

That is my 2 cents worth.  Not everyone is going to agree and we each are entitled to their own opinion.  But I though you would like to hear from someone who once upon a time played "gridiron", and had a bit of rugby in the mix as well (in high school), plus who has had exposure to the US factory system for producing athletes, and to professional sports at the business level.

What actually mystifies me the most and I think in its own way presents the most challenge for all North American interest is the complete ineptitude of SL and RL management.  There I think many of us would agree....

Thanks for that Capt. It is refreshing to hear from someone who like yourself and Bradmack actually put some meat on the bones other than the non-sensical contributions of nose tweakers.

As I have stated before, surely there must be many many athletes that would be prime pickings for the sport of RL in Canada and NA, that we are both agreed on, but looking in from afar those of us who are more curious as to how things evolve and happen are not hearing anything on the development front from the TWP in relation to taking those hopefuls on a journey from identifying them through trials games to them realising their potential. 

There is no proposal of intent or pathway that has been mentioned, even if it was an avenue of secondment to the American teams or lesser UK clubs  even amatuer teams for those players, in fact, I do not know how many 'natives' TWP have apart from Ryan Burroughs who incidently I believe played in a lower Australian league to learn the game prior to signing. Nobody can improve if they are not playing.

I am intelligent enough to know that player development does not happen overnight, but an action plan should be produced and known public, even if for nothing else but advertising to those they want to entice in the first place.

On another development topic OXJ said:-

" If volunteers make a few clubs over the next few years then that is great, but it is not the Wolfpack's job"

Although in my opinion he did say some positive things, I think that statement is totally wrong, it is precisely the job of the Wolfpack and in their interests to do so if they are serious of staying in for the long haul,  which I am sure they are.

Incidentally, in your sporting CV you say you have expierienced and played Rugby, which denomination was it, and to what standard? 

In the town I come from we have both League and Union clubs, so the guy's have a choice which game to play, what is very prevalent is those who are more adept at playing a faster more skillfull game play League.

[tms]

5 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

 

What I find fascinating on the general forum, but I have always refrained from commenting out specifically, is the belief among the diehard UK fans that pro RL rugby is some enormously difficult sport to master unless one has gone to an academy for 15 yrs, and so on.

NO THEY DONT!!!!! in the UK rugby league is played at all age groups Iv'e got grandkids both girls and boys playing from under 8's to super league academy level It's a  game unlike union and I guess NFL with no complicated rules and with the right coaching easy to pick up the hardest part about rugby league is to learn how to tackle properly to avoid injury

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for that Capt. It is refreshing to hear from someone who like yourself and Bradmack actually put some meat on the bones other than the non-sensical contributions of nose tweakers.

 

Some people 'look' but they do not 'see'...other people 'hear' but they do not 'listen' or even fundamentally comprehend the most simple of messages.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Some people 'look' but they do not 'see'...other people 'hear' but they do not 'listen' or even fundamentally comprehend the most simple of messages.

I wasn't addressing your goodself, I could see what the Capt said, and hear what Brad was saying, Bye.

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I wasn't addressing your goodself, I could see what the Capt said, and hear what Brad was saying, Bye.

Hey Harry:  Did you just watch the live news conference of the TWP and all the new signings...hottest club in the world, bar none, right now....are you getting the messaging....Twp is transmitting...are you receiving?

[Kayakman]

9 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

Hi Harry.  I know a fellow Canadian has lingering doubts about your identity but you should also be aware he likes to "tweak noses" in order to see what sort of a response he obtains, for fun.  He got that habit from the pub at our university, appropriately named "The Bombshelter".....

Now Captain you know that all those noses I broke and faces I messed up in the old days deserved it...well,Okay, most of them then...well, on afterthought, at least a few of them!

Some people just don't know who they are talking to and understand that they have to respect their betters.

As I used to say in the weight room , "Lift plates....get dates!"  

Hang in there and how much money did ya make today?...keep on truckin!

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Hey Harry:  Did you just watch the live news conference of the TWP and all the new signings...hottest club in the world, bar none, right now....are you getting the messaging....Twp is transmitting...are you receiving?

Not seen it yet, just picked up your mail from two hours after you posted it, I will let you know.