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NickWeaver

Leigh threaten to bar Premier Sports

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1 hour ago, Krzzystuff said:

What is the issue? Every Wolfpack game will be televised like last season...every team we play away will have a broadcasting crew on site....is this to complicated for Championship clubs somehow? The league 1 clubs that don't have any televised games didn't have any issues with it last year. Leigh who just "earned" half a million through relegation were broadcast 13 times according to this forum, this shouldn't be a new concept to them

The issue is that nobody seems to know how such an agreement to show all TWP home and away games in the Championship has come about, given Sky has UK broadcasting rights to screen the Championship in the UK. I see issues with the various suggestions on how this has come about as well, those being;

  • Sky has sold the rights to Premier Sport - This sort of "sub-letting" would be damaging to the sport in this country. Increasing the monopoly  of funding by sky, but allowing them to get the increased revenue that comes about from additional broadcasting
  • TWP have been allowed to sell their own rights to home and away games - This would be a dangerous precedent, even if Sky had given the ok. Selling the rights to their home games would be one thing, but their away games? What happens if a team in New York comes into the league with a similar agreement. Who sells the rights to the games when they play each other?
  • The RFL have sold an additional package to Premier Sports. This would probably be the least contentious agreement, but even then, why the silence on what the agreement is, how much revenue it's generated for the RFL, and how is it distributed? 

The higher up the chain TWP go, the more of these issues will be encountered. I would be amazed if Super League chairmen would happily allow new broadcasters to show games, without any sign of increased TV revenue. I think a lot of responses on this thread, are more about who put out the tweet, than the subject itself. Things like parachute payment being thrown into it, which has nothing to do with this. 

In short, the issue is that nobody knows what agreements have been made, and between who, to make such coverage happen. Yes, DB's tweet was badly worded, the rights aren't Leigh's to sell. But nor are they TWPs, which leaves the RFL. You would think they could've clarified this pretty quickly.

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On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:34 AM, TheReaper said:

Seriously,  how the f do TV rights work over there?

In any other league I know of, the league owns the TV rights. The league sells the TV rights, national or international.  The league takes that money,  and distributes it to the teams. 

How much more mickey mouse can this get?

The league sold the TV rights to a channel that refuses to show it. Premier Sports for the rights to show Toronto home matches also

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2 hours ago, jpmc said:

I believe other clubs are looking into wether they must let the cameras in so we'll see shortly.

1

It shouldnt take them too long to find out the answer to that. 

Operation Rule A4:10

Each club agrees to comply with the terms of all contracts which the RFL, RLIF or other RLIF member may enter in to in respect of the league broadcasting rights, cup broadcasting rights, international broadcasting rights, and/or broadcasting rights relating to international matches and agrees to provide the RFL or its appointed representative or to such a party as the RFL in writing may direct, such access to its ground and such facilities as are reasonably required for the performance of such contracts by the RFL, its representative and/or any such contracting party. If any club defaults in such obligations it shall be guilty of Off Field Misconduct and in addition may be dealt with by the board as it thinks appropriate and may include (but is not limited to) forfeiture use of any rights to distribution of the fees received by the RFL.

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1 hour ago, phiggins said:

The issue is that nobody seems to know how such an agreement to show all TWP home and away games in the Championship has come about, given Sky has UK broadcasting rights to screen the Championship in the UK. I see issues with the various suggestions on how this has come about as well, those being;

  • Sky has sold the rights to Premier Sport - This sort of "sub-letting" would be damaging to the sport in this country. Increasing the monopoly  of funding by sky, but allowing them to get the increased revenue that comes about from additional broadcasting
  • TWP have been allowed to sell their own rights to home and away games - This would be a dangerous precedent, even if Sky had given the ok. Selling the rights to their home games would be one thing, but their away games? What happens if a team in New York comes into the league with a similar agreement. Who sells the rights to the games when they play each other?
  • The RFL have sold an additional package to Premier Sports. This would probably be the least contentious agreement, but even then, why the silence on what the agreement is, how much revenue it's generated for the RFL, and how is it distributed? 

The higher up the chain TWP go, the more of these issues will be encountered. I would be amazed if Super League chairmen would happily allow new broadcasters to show games, without any sign of increased TV revenue. I think a lot of responses on this thread, are more about who put out the tweet, than the subject itself. Things like parachute payment being thrown into it, which has nothing to do with this. 

In short, the issue is that nobody knows what agreements have been made, and between who, to make such coverage happen. Yes, DB's tweet was badly worded, the rights aren't Leigh's to sell. But nor are they TWPs, which leaves the RFL. You would think they could've clarified this pretty quickly.

I dont think it is as complicated as that. It is a very cut and dried situation. Ultimately without argument, the rights belong to the RFL. Whether they have allowed Sky to on-sell them, or TWP, or have sold them themselves becomes largely irrelevant because the rights will always revert back to the RFL. 

I highly doubt the RFL allowed Sky to on-sell them. This a) doesnt seem like something Sky would want to do in any aspect, and b ) doesnt seem like something the RFL would want either.

In fact, I would be very surprised if Premier were paying anything at all for these rights, it is almost certain to me that their deal with Toronto is the same as the one they had with the championship previously. I.e just the costs of broadcasting. The value for Toronto is their ability to then sell them on to Canadian broadcasters. This is ultimately where the benefit would be to SL. If Toronto can sell the rights for their games + the Sky games, and can contra the Sky games for the Toronto games as Les Catalans have done, Toronto becomes a net contributor to SL, not only in monetary terms but in value terms as well.

This issue is a complete non-issue and pointless troublemaking. Whoever has sold the rights and for what has only done so with the permission of the RFL, and the clubs are bound by that decision. Not only that but the rights in this country are already owned and have been sold to Sky with (more than) the proceeds distributed to the club. So any value here, in this deal, is by definition added value.

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I had a rant early on, for which I make no apology whatsoever, but I really do wish you guys the best of luck and can't wait to see you at Crazy Park. But really, this post has become a hate fest of Leeds or Leigh v TWP. However, I think the thrust of the argument from this side of the pond is, well, what is going on over there? That is what you need to ask your people in charge. Up to you.

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37 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont think it is as complicated as that. It is a very cut and dried situation. Ultimately without argument, the rights belong to the RFL. Whether they have allowed Sky to on-sell them, or TWP, or have sold them themselves becomes largely irrelevant because the rights will always revert back to the RFL. 

I highly doubt the RFL allowed Sky to on-sell them. This a) doesnt seem like something Sky would want to do in any aspect, and b ) doesnt seem like something the RFL would want either.

In fact, I would be very surprised if Premier were paying anything at all for these rights, it is almost certain to me that their deal with Toronto is the same as the one they had with the championship previously. I.e just the costs of broadcasting. The value for Toronto is their ability to then sell them on to Canadian broadcasters. This is ultimately where the benefit would be to SL. If Toronto can sell the rights for their games + the Sky games, and can contra the Sky games for the Toronto games as Les Catalans have done, Toronto becomes a net contributor to SL, not only in monetary terms but in value terms as well.

This issue is a complete non-issue and pointless troublemaking. Whoever has sold the rights and for what has only done so with the permission of the RFL, and the clubs are bound by that decision. Not only that but the rights in this country are already owned and have been sold to Sky with (more than) the proceeds distributed to the club. So any value here, in this deal, is by definition added value.

I agree with your first two paragraphs. I also agree that TWP should be allowed to sell the rights to Canadian broadcasters, but don't think this should be at a cost of giving away rights to screen matches live in the UK, a delayed broadcast would be more appropriate. Also, I think if we are to give away rights, we'd get more value in giving them to the BBC to stream online than to Premier.

My issue with all this is the RFL could quash this quite easily by stating what deal has been agreed, when it is agreed, rather than waiting for a chairman to raise it as an issue. Yes, the tweet wasn't accurate in suggesting he could sell the rights, but that doesn't mean that he should just let broadcasters in, without some sort of confirmation of what's agreed.

 

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39 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I agree with your first two paragraphs. I also agree that TWP should be allowed to sell the rights to Canadian broadcasters, but don't think this should be at a cost of giving away rights to screen matches live in the UK, a delayed broadcast would be more appropriate. Also, I think if we are to give away rights, we'd get more value in giving them to the BBC to stream online than to Premier.

My issue with all this is the RFL could quash this quite easily by stating what deal has been agreed, when it is agreed, rather than waiting for a chairman to raise it as an issue. Yes, the tweet wasn't accurate in suggesting he could sell the rights, but that doesn't mean that he should just let broadcasters in, without some sort of confirmation of what's agreed.

 

In principle I would certainly agree that we shouldn't give away rights. And if definitely agree the BBC would be better than premier (to the point of accepting less from the BBC than premier for those rights)

The problem in this situation is that these rights HAVE been sold. And for money than we have ever sold them before. Nobody wants to pay close to what sky are paying. Sky have chosen not to screen them and (albeit temporarily on my opinion) have acquiesced to premier showing Toronto games. A larger package of championship games for any broadcaster would undoubtedly come at the expense of the sky deal. Right now we have the best of both worlds. Sky are paying a relatively large sum for the championship even though they don't seem to want it (It's not only to stop others screening it but for the middle 8s imo) but they're also allowing premier to screen some of them. It really is a gift horse they are looking in the mouth here. 

I'd also argue it's terrible politics. In the next round of funding how do they argue the SL chairmen should share some of their tv funding after arguing the damage tv screening does to home gates when SL clubs are the ones whose games are screened?

On your last point I agree entirely but the RFL rarely clarify anything. Their communications are pretty universally terrible. 

Edited by scotchy1

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55 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I agree with your first two paragraphs. I also agree that TWP should be allowed to sell the rights to Canadian broadcasters, but don't think this should be at a cost of giving away rights to screen matches live in the UK, a delayed broadcast would be more appropriate. Also, I think if we are to give away rights, we'd get more value in giving them to the BBC to stream online than to Premier.

My issue with all this is the RFL could quash this quite easily by stating what deal has been agreed, when it is agreed, rather than waiting for a chairman to raise it as an issue. Yes, the tweet wasn't accurate in suggesting he could sell the rights, but that doesn't mean that he should just let broadcasters in, without some sort of confirmation of what's agreed.

 

This is the issue for me if DB has gone to the RFL to clear this situation up then I would hope he'd have an answer by now. I'm not sure the RFL should be trawling twitter in order to answer chairmens questions though. 

Edited by bobbruce
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The RFL are notoriously bad at sorting out issues before they occur , it's almost as if they think if they just ignore things then it'll be alright 

Even way back in 2003 they introduced a salary cap into the NLs ( Champ and League 1 ) , but did no due diligence beforehand as to the differences between full time operation and part time , so where SL clubs essentially include all their playing staff in community depts , lower league clubs would have specific players ( usually ex SL at end of career ) being paid full time as both player and local  community officers , no allowance was made for these players 

Similarily end of career SL players might become player/coaches , again no provision was made 

Under SL SC rules any payment from a club director to a player was SL relevant , whereas in part time clubs it isn't unusual for directors to employ players full time in their businesses ( allowing for time off for playing/training/injuries/disciplinarys ) and obviously the transient nature of sport  

My guess is the RFL have just ' assumed ' everything will be fine , because it was last year 

Edited by GUBRATS

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2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

This is the issue for me if DB has gone to the RFL to clear this situation up then I would hope he'd have an answer by now. I'm not sure the RFL should be trawling twitter in order to answer chairmens questions though. 

Apparently the RFL have been asked. To be fair to DB, he was answering a question on the channel it was asked.

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7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

G'day Kayakman, no you were not the first to make that comment, but you did labour it on a tad and I countered, no hard feelings at all, we have already made our peace in that respect.

I have had it brought to my attention that the other said gentleman has a pack of his own namely Irish Wolfhounds, this is his valet (he's 6'-6") with the smallest of them.

IrishWolfhoundFrankBrendan.JPG.ae2a0b5837b7b0697da39010f2ae4eef.JPG

😉

I love those dogs and, yes, they were bred to hunt down wolves (European breeds)...we in NA are dire wolves, the biggest and meanest of all  wolves so we have nothing to fear....just a little puny pup to us.

latest.png

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On 27/12/2017 at 10:06 PM, Bob8 said:

It is:
- The first Canadian team
- A grudge match
- A possible Championship decider

Most League 1 clubs had their largest crowd against TWP, perhaps you could get more ideas from them. 

There's no Canadians in it Bob.

But I do believe it will be sold as a grudge match - despite both clubs being too professional for this sort of thing. The marketing department may well push this idea to get the fans excited, and first games of the season tend to get that bit extra on the gate.

The grudge will be Leigh based with the current team and coach pitched against a coach and players who jumped off the Leigh ship. As for TWP attracting extra fans from here that's fine, last year fans were intrigued and wanted to go see what Toronto were all about. However they are all about Leigh, so I'm not sure they will go on intriguing fans here, once people realise this.

The gate will also be affected by any decision prior to the match by Superleague as to whether this is the start of a clear path to Superleague. Both clubs will want to know that they will not be blocked from winning a place through licensing (Beaumont doesn't believe this) or in the case of Wolfpack not being invited into SL as guests should they win it.

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56 minutes ago, jpmc said:

Return of the damned,except for fuifui.

The Rugby Gods have already just stepped into the fray and decided the outcome...they have sent a sign..no one can ignore it...TWP dominates Leigh and then its the Championship title for us and then on to bigger and better things!   I know that you were behind this Hunslet Rugby God (All Hail The Hunslet Rugby God)...like Odin was behind Ragnor!  Its the Leeds Rhinos for us (and the sooner the better):

 

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11 hours ago, phiggins said:

The issue is that nobody seems to know how such an agreement to show all TWP home and away games in the Championship has come about, given Sky has UK broadcasting rights to screen the Championship in the UK. I see issues with the various suggestions on how this has come about as well, those being;

  • Sky has sold the rights to Premier Sport - This sort of "sub-letting" would be damaging to the sport in this country. Increasing the monopoly  of funding by sky, but allowing them to get the increased revenue that comes about from additional broadcasting
  • TWP have been allowed to sell their own rights to home and away games - This would be a dangerous precedent, even if Sky had given the ok. Selling the rights to their home games would be one thing, but their away games? What happens if a team in New York comes into the league with a similar agreement. Who sells the rights to the games when they play each other?
  • The RFL have sold an additional package to Premier Sports. This would probably be the least contentious agreement, but even then, why the silence on what the agreement is, how much revenue it's generated for the RFL, and how is it distributed? 

The higher up the chain TWP go, the more of these issues will be encountered. I would be amazed if Super League chairmen would happily allow new broadcasters to show games, without any sign of increased TV revenue. I think a lot of responses on this thread, are more about who put out the tweet, than the subject itself. Things like parachute payment being thrown into it, which has nothing to do with this. 

In short, the issue is that nobody knows what agreements have been made, and between who, to make such coverage happen. Yes, DB's tweet was badly worded, the rights aren't Leigh's to sell. But nor are they TWPs, which leaves the RFL. You would think they could've clarified this pretty quickly.

We take 0 central funding which is the sky money until we get to SL. This is the reason that we get our own TV deal as having every game televised is key to growing the game in NA. Once in SL we will be taking our portion of the central funding and no longer paying other teams travel costs. The goal is that there will be extra money coming into the pot for all teams from a NA TV deal and Perez has mentioned many times that they always planned on starting multiple teams in NA to get the best TV deal possible to bring in the much needed cash into the English game. The RFL knew of his plans from the beginning and I have no reason to believe that the RFL and Sky have sat on their hands until the last minute to work the details out. With the other NA teams expect the same setup as again every game needs to be televised for the local market for it to grow.

If there are any additional costs incurred by the host teams to get the game televised I'm sure our share of the central funding will more than cover the cost of the one game, it's over 100K for everyone no?

Please explain to me what rights any Championship clubs have to demand more money to do what they have already been paid to do? STFU and do your job.

By the way I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas!

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8 hours ago, bobbruce said:

This is the issue for me if DB has gone to the RFL to clear this situation up then I would hope he'd have an answer by now. I'm not sure the RFL should be trawling twitter in order to answer chairmens questions though. 

It would be great to get some clarity from Premier, the RFL or someone. However, if Derek Beaumont, sundeck salesman,  is so petty as to follow through with his "little general" stance, then Premier should make sure they block the Leigh game in Toronto from being broadcast in the UK.

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4 hours ago, ojx said:

It would be great to get some clarity from Premier, the RFL or someone. However, if Derek Beaumont, sundeck salesman,  is so petty as to follow through with his "little general" stance, then Premier should make sure they block the Leigh game in Toronto from being broadcast in the UK.

Maybe I am quite wrong but I do not believe the problem is the screening of the game overseas from the UK, I sincerley hope it is not for the fans of the TWP back home in Canada they deserve the game to be televised live for their continued and new support, however, if you care to read back on these pages it is a very prominent fact we are advised that when the TWP visited the grounds of the Championship 1 teams these clubs enjoyed great increases and in some cases record crowds despite the game being televised live such is the level of support the Wolfpack enjoy in the UK.

Now considering that 2018 will bring more games into the "heartlands" for the Wolfpack where the better supported Championship teams and SL teams and moreso those important people who actually go to watch the game live reside, instead of very poorly supported areas like Newcastle, Gloucester, Oxford, Coventry, London, Hemel, North and South Wales, would it not be better to forego the live televising of the TWP games in the UK to entice those UK based TWP fans to attend?

Each Championship club will be able to cast its publicising and advertising net wider even encroaching on neighbouring clubs territory with the slogan "The only place you can watch Round 'X' of the Wolfpack Live" that should get the punters in, shouldn't it?

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9 hours ago, The Parksider said:

There's no Canadians in it Bob.

But I do believe it will be sold as a grudge match - despite both clubs being too professional for this sort of thing. The marketing department may well push this idea to get the fans excited, and first games of the season tend to get that bit extra on the gate.

The grudge will be Leigh based with the current team and coach pitched against a coach and players who jumped off the Leigh ship. As for TWP attracting extra fans from here that's fine, last year fans were intrigued and wanted to go see what Toronto were all about. However they are all about Leigh, so I'm not sure they will go on intriguing fans here, once people realise this.

The gate will also be affected by any decision prior to the match by Superleague as to whether this is the start of a clear path to Superleague. Both clubs will want to know that they will not be blocked from winning a place through licensing (Beaumont doesn't believe this) or in the case of Wolfpack not being invited into SL as guests should they win it.

I'll break my promise to myself.

It's a Canadian team. They are based in Canada, they are run by Canadians, their fans are Canadians. When Halifax, Hull KR, and Wakefield Trinity took to the field with squads composed entirely of overseas players were they no longer British? at least the wolf pack have an excuse.

It promises to be one hell of a game. A marketing manager's dream. The Centurions' media manager should think that he/she is in paradise.

Leigh have taken that clear path to super league, and have taken it straight back again as per tradition.

 

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

would it not be better to forego the live televising of the TWP games in the UK to entice those UK based TWP fans to attend?

This is such a UK mindset. 

All sports in Australia would sell their soul to get a live TV broadcast. It’s considered a valuable opportunity.

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A lot of people are being rather silly on this thread.

There is an issue here though, and it isn't around the actual rights.

It is around the fact that the communication is appalling. The RFL should be communicating with the clubs as soon as they have agreed this (or in advance if they need permission - which we have to assume they don't as they haven't!). There is no excuse for them not communicating this.

However, Beaumont is also acting like a tool to make a point - and as usual making points in public, which just further creates an us and them attitude and fuels the victim mentality.

There should be proper communication channels, and clearly the RFL and Leigh are guilty of not using them.

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2 minutes ago, Copa said:

This is such a UK mindset. 

All sports in Australia would sell their soul to get a live TV broadcast. It’s considered a valuable opportunity.

would they give it away for no financial reward?

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

would they give it away for no financial reward?

A smaller sport absolutely would. Especially if they would have otherwise received zero coverage. 

A tv network setting up, broadcasting and packing away, free of charge is valuable contra deal for a small sport.

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4 minutes ago, Copa said:

This is such a UK mindset. 

All sports in Australia would sell their soul to get a live TV broadcast. It’s considered a valuable opportunity.

I'll guarantee ther'll be threads on this and other forum telling us how attendances in aus aren't  growing or even going down because of saturation tv

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36 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

I'll break my promise to myself.

It's a Canadian team. They are based in Canada, they are run by Canadians, their fans are Canadians. When Halifax, Hull KR, and Wakefield Trinity took to the field with squads composed entirely of overseas players were they no longer British? at least the wolf pack have an excuse.

It promises to be one hell of a game. A marketing manager's dream. The Centurions' media manager should think that he/she is in paradise.

Leigh have taken that clear path to super league, and have taken it straight back again as per tradition.

I had Parky on Ignore for good reason.  When you break your promise to yourself, I see the post too.

There is no point in Parky and me discussing it.  He is insincere and regardless, reality has already been involved and given most League 1 clubs their biggest crowd of the season.  So, there is no sensible argument for it leading to a drop in crowd unless the marketing line is "don't bother, it'll be rubbish".

There might well be a communication issue with the RFL.  There has been a lot of upheaval in the last few months with Nigel Wood's departure being determined, then the World Cup happening, then Nigel Woods position still being unclear. 

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