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21 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

There's nothing sudden about the interest in Nike sweatshops. You Tube has videos and TV exposes going back to the 1990s about it.

Any idea how much of a dang the average American redneck gave about it until this week?

I don't recall many protests when Nike became the official supplier of Ohio State.

Is it a new thing, this idea that everyone and everything must be 100% ideologically sound before you can agree with even one action taken?

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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I don't think it's completely ridiculous to point out the contradiction. 

This argument doesn't exist in a vacuum. Many of those supporting Kaepernick are also the sort of fervent lefties who have zero tolerance when it comes to things like comments that they disagree with. A single tweet, joke or offensive t-shirt is enough to see calls for people to be sacked and their opinion declared null and void.

Despite this, they are able to turn a blind eye to the whole sweatshop thing as long as Nike are doing something on their side.

This doesn't mean you're wrong about the sudden focus on sweatshops. It's the inevitable result of factionalism and people taking sides. Rather than treating issues on a case by case basis, they treat them by whichever one their side is supposed to support. 

 

Who is turning a blind eye to the sweatshop thing? Or should praising Nike's support of Kaepernick only be done when people also raise every bad thing Nike has ever done? 

People are saying Nike have done a good thing in supporting Kaepernick. I haven't encountered anyone saying anything more than that. 

2 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Some people have suddenly noticed Nikes use of cheap labour, where as they were not too bothered a few days ago.  A pure coincidence of course.

The irony is that the people most likely to have cared about Nike's use of cheap labour, both before and after Kaepernick, are left wing. 

Edited by Saint 1

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22 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Any idea how much of a dang the average American redneck gave about it until this week?

I don't recall many protests when Nike became the official supplier of Ohio State.

Is it a new thing, this idea that everyone and everything must be 100% ideologically sound before you can agree with even one action taken?

I don't know of any average American rednecks who've even raised it.

In IdPol it is SOP that you must be 100% pure to get in the door. Intersectional Orthodoxy decrees that you must agree with the entire programme or you're a Nazi. Look at the shunning of Germaine Greer and Richard Dawkins.

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23 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

In IdPol it is SOP ...

You did that on purpose.

*fires up google*

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2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

Who is turning a blind eye to the sweatshop thing? Or should praising Nike's support of Kaepernick only be done when people also raise every bad thing Nike has ever done? 

People are saying Nike have done a good thing in supporting Kaepernick. I haven't encountered anyone saying anything more than that. 

The irony is that the people most likely to have cared about Nike's use of cheap labour, both before and after Kaepernick, are left wing. 

Farmduck makes the point better than I do. For many people on the Kaepernick side of the debate (for want of a better phrase) say Dawkins or Greer made a point they agreed they wouldn't share it or celebrate it because they are beyond the pail. 

I think this is where they see hypocrisy. A company with dubious and harmful practices can be treated on their relative merits (especially if they can be used to win an argument) but individuals are rarely treated this way. 

It's all very petty and just about point-scoring. This is what I mean about factionalising, people don't view things on their individual merits but rather what benefits their side.

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Any idea how much of a dang the average American redneck gave about it until this week?

I don't recall many protests when Nike became the official supplier of Ohio State.

Is it a new thing, this idea that everyone and everything must be 100% ideologically sound before you can agree with even one action taken?

It certainly appears to be but I'm pretty sure I heard or read something recently that suggested we've always been this way and we're just nostalgic about earlier times. 

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4 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It certainly appears to be but I'm pretty sure I heard or read something recently that suggested we've always been this way and we're just nostalgic about earlier times. 

Aye, nostalgia's not what it used to be.

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Nike use cheap sweatshops so they can make more money. Nike are "supporting" Kaepernick to make more money. Nike don't do, or support, anything unless it'll make them more money. They are in the money making business!

Edited by Wiltshire Rhino
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What would the people working in Nike's sweat shop factory's be doing if they didn't work for Nike  , genuine question .

Any chance the factory's could use a union to improve terms and conditions   

Edited by henage

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9 hours ago, henage said:

What would the people working in Nike's sweat shop factory's be doing if they didn't work for Nike  , genuine question .

 

That's a fair question, to which I do not have an answer.

When I got married in the Dominican Republic, the staff in the hotel worked 12hr shifts, 6 days a week for, by British standards, pittance. However they were very well paid compared to the majority of their country. 

Tough call!

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These figures were the last Nike released, in 2001:   https://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/threads_and_laces/2014/05/how-much-do-nike-contract-factory-workers-get-paid.html

This is a more recent article about minimum wage in Vietnam, which is one of the few countries where workers are allowed to have unions.  (I mean one of the few countries favoured by the big US brands' sweatshop suppliers.)

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/perspectives/is-vietnam-s-minimum-wage-structure-sustainable-3639081.html

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24 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

That's a fair question, to which I do not have an answer.

When I got married in the Dominican Republic, the staff in the hotel worked 12hr shifts, 6 days a week for, by British standards, pittance. However they were very well paid compared to the majority of their country. 

Tough call!

I think the most important thing is how they are treated. If someone gets paid a wage that is by our standards poor, it might be good by the standards of that country. But poor treatment of workers ie no breaks, always cracking the whip etc is more of an issue.

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I'm not sure either Nike or Americans (of the redneck variety or any other for that matter) can be criticised by anyone in the UK who buys from any cheap as chips clothing store or even M&S because invariably they import their stock from Bangladesh (often produced in buildings that like to fall down) or China, countries of the type that don't exactly boast high wages for their workers and in fact are well known for their sweatshops.

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56 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I'm not sure either Nike or Americans (of the redneck variety or any other for that matter) can be criticised by anyone in the UK who buys from any cheap as chips clothing store or even M&S because invariably they import their stock from Bangladesh 

Of course they can. The end consumer can't be expected to know in what conditions the goods they are buying have been produced which is why legislation is so important in these areas.

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I’ve had a lot of discussions about far eastern and third world manufacturing policies, both as a raging lefty and as an employee of a company that used Chinese, Thai and Indonesian factories and the general consensus is that if you pay EU or US levels of salary it totally distorts the local market and you make it more financially rewarding to work on a production line than be a nurse or teacher (for example)

what is important is to ensure you pay at the top level of local rates and ensure EU and US levels of health and safety and working conditions are applied 

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9 hours ago, M j M said:

Of course they can. The end consumer can't be expected to know in what conditions the goods they are buying have been produced which is why legislation is so important in these areas.

People don't honestly question, in this day and age of easy information, why a T-shirt can cost £2 -£1.50 in places like Primark? But the reality is that people (myself included) like to pay as little as possible for their clothes and it's easy to turn a blind eye.

I mean, if I know something is produced  by child labour for instance, I won't buy it.

Then again, this opens another potential quandry....are those kids, as bad as it is, actually relying on that work to help their family? And will not buying it mean they don't even get that?

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12 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

People don't honestly question, in this day and age of easy information, why a T-shirt can cost £2 -£1.50 in places like Primark? But the reality is that people (myself included) like to pay as little as possible for their clothes and it's easy to turn a blind eye.

I mean, if I know something is produced  by child labour for instance, I won't buy it.

Then again, this opens another potential quandry....are those kids, as bad as it is, actually relying on that work to help their family? And will not buying it mean they don't even get that?

This ties in with my post above, one of the things you insist on as a western employer is that all the workers in the factory are over 16, and to rigorously police this with spot checks and unannounced visits. Anecdotally I know that Sainsbury's  do this and by implication I would imagine that all the majr UK supermarkets do the same.

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What a a difference a couple of days make. A couple of days ago the Daily Llama was being praised after tweeting support for Brooklyn 99, which had been cancelled. One commentator even said, "Oh, he’s very popular Ed. The sportsos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads – they all adore him. They think he’s a righteous dude.” — Grace

Now of course he's a White Supremacist, racist, Islamophobe, fascist, literally Hitler.

 

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:01 PM, M j M said:

Of course they can. The end consumer can't be expected to know in what conditions the goods they are buying have been produced which is why legislation is so important in these areas.

Oh purlease! Google is your friend (or maybe not, if you're far left!).

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4 hours ago, Farmduck said:

What a a difference a couple of days make. A couple of days ago the Daily Llama was being praised after tweeting support for Brooklyn 99, which had been cancelled. One commentator even said, "Oh, he’s very popular Ed. The sportsos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads – they all adore him. They think he’s a righteous dude.” — Grace

Now of course he's a White Supremacist, racist, Islamophobe, fascist, literally Hitler.

 

Yes.  Sad isn't it?  One is only fab if one has specific opinions on things.  

On a slightly different tack but along the same journey I think this story epitomises left wing identity politics at its worst.  It seems dwarfs are not allowed to be gainfully employed wrestling other dwarfs because that is discrimination against, er, dwarfs.  This whole PC hogwash has gotten out of hand.  

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27 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Oh purlease! Google is your friend (or maybe not, if you're far left!).

Do you really go round the supermarket or shopping centre working out where and how everything you buy has been produced? 

Imperfect knowledge is a fact. Consumers can't regulate this aspect of the market themselves.

Edited by M j M
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