Harry Stottle

Reserve and Academy teams

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I believe that we now only have Wigan, Wire and Wakey in SL, Fax in the Championship and Keighley in Championship1 being the only teams now running reserves teams, Hull and Saints being the latest withdrawals, how long before there will be none at all?

I think there are presently 13 academy teams, should it be a requirement for every team at least SL and Championship to run them? 

If so how do teams like Batley and Dewsbury fare being so close to Wakey, Cas, Leeds and Bradford, or indeed Leigh in the shadow of Wigan, Wire and Saints? Should proffesional clubs be responsible for the Community game in their own demarcation areas to promote the game. 

In his recent interview Mr Adam Pearson says that the participation figures in Sport England are hugely important (he means depressing) and getting the community game organised is part of that, there's a real feeling among senior SL clubs that we are going to be able to get hold of this issue now. Not in the future, not in months to come, but this month. Now!

Is it that the senior SL clubs will be looking after all the community game country wide not only their own backyard, or are other area's earmarked for "natural wasteage"? 

It will be interesting to see what they announce this month. Now! or will it be part of the requirement for SL entry, perhaps Leigh and Toronto could join alleigence a run a joint Academy as being most probably the next best 2 teams outside SL, if it can happen in Hull why not elsewhere, after all they FC and KR are two completely independant organisations, only geography aligns them.

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Every SL club should be forced to run under 16s,18s & 21s/reserves or else they can't use the marquee rule

Championship clubs should at least run a under 21s/reserves...with under 18s encouraged but optional..

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1 minute ago, roughyedspud said:

Every SL club should be forced to run under 16s,18s & 21s/reserves or else they can't use the marquee rule

Championship clubs should at least run a under 21s/reserves...with under 18s encouraged but optional..

Not disagreeing Spud, for a considerable time in the future if the expansion programme gathers momentum there is much more onus to produce more players over here, either that or jettison clubs the numbers simply do not match.

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The RFL required whoever they appointed as new owners of Bulls 4.0 to retain the club's academy.

Why did the RFL not require every other SL and Championship club to maintain an academy?  Since this was surely a recognition oif how important academies are?  So important, that they insisted someone coming in from outside, taking on a defunct operation with no money, and labouring under massive impediments from day 1, must still run an academy. Hell, academies must have been seen by the RFL as nearly the most important feature in the whole gane, to insist on that?

Yet the announcement that every other club is required to run an academy, regardles of whether they can afford to, for some reason seems to still not have been made, a year later. Anyone any ideas why? Frankly, I am confused. No, really.

 

 

 

 

 

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I believe every team in Superleague should be running a reserve or U23 (with a number for over age players) team, with regards to academy I think that they should at least some involvement, even if that is a shared team, for instance the City of Hull Academy.

My understanding is that it was lack of regular fixtures persuaded Saints not to pursue the reserve team but I can't remember where I saw that.

I don't think you can just get the teams up and running, therefore a time table should be set out, for instance in 5 years every SL team should be running a reserve/U23 team and have a share in an academy. This should be enforced, no teams no SL place. By the same token I would have enforceable minimum criteria for grounds too.

Any team wanting to enter SL, whether that be a new (eg New York)  or existing (eg Leigh) would have to meet the criteria before being allowed to join the competition

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Amazing how Fax and Keighley can run a reserve side but 3/4 of SL can't.

Just hope the new set up will introduce compulsory participation for at least SL teams.

In Fax's case the supporters club make great efforts in helping to fund the team,and as a consequence we are giving many local lads a chance at our game rather than moving to Union.

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3 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I believe every team in Superleague should be running a reserve or U23 (with a number for over age players) team, with regards to academy I think that they should at least some involvement, even if that is a shared team, for instance the City of Hull Academy.

My understanding is that it was lack of regular fixtures persuaded Saints not to pursue the reserve team but I can't remember where I saw that.

I don't think you can just get the teams up and running, therefore a time table should be set out, for instance in 5 years every SL team should be running a reserve/U23 team and have a share in an academy. This should be enforced, no teams no SL place. By the same token I would have enforceable minimum criteria for grounds too.

Any team wanting to enter SL, whether that be a new (eg New York)  or existing (eg Leigh) would have to meet the criteria before being allowed to join the competition

I know Hull weren't happy with the reserves comp. Basically a bunch of infrequent friendlies with far too many cases of games being cancelled at the last minute. I assume Saints quit for the same reason. Not a good enough excuse for me. If you believe in a concept you stick with it and try to make it work and get other clubs to come with you. But it seems both teams feel the players would benefit more from loans and dual reg. 

Realistically it wont work unless the RFL make it a requirement and turn it into a proper competition.

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1 minute ago, MZH said:

I know Hull weren't happy with the reserves comp. Basically a bunch of infrequent friendlies with far too many cases of games being cancelled at the last minute. I assume Saints quit for the same reason. Not a good enough excuse for me. If you believe in a concept you stick with it and try to make it work and get other clubs to come with you. But it seems both teams feel the players would benefit more from loans and dual reg. 

Realistically it wont work unless the RFL make it a requirement and turn it into a proper competition.

Yes maybe it was Hull I read about rather than Saints.

I agree with you on both points, that it is not a good enough excuse and that the RFL should make it a requirement for the clubs

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13 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Any team wanting to enter SL, whether that be a new (eg New York)  or existing (eg Leigh) would have to meet the criteria before being allowed to join the competition

And, it must also apply to the TWP as well, it was a pretty much tounge in cheek remark that I aligned Leigh with the TWP to come together to run an academy, but the reasoning is good, it does not have to be those two but they are the ones most likely from the championship by winning promotion or by invitation, even if only one of those teams makes it to SL the other will benefit, if none of them make it this/next time a box will be ticked.

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10 minutes ago, MZH said:

I know Hull weren't happy with the reserves comp. Basically a bunch of infrequent friendlies with far too many cases of games being cancelled at the last minute. I assume Saints quit for the same reason. Not a good enough excuse for me. If you believe in a concept you stick with it and try to make it work and get other clubs to come with you. But it seems both teams feel the players would benefit more from loans and dual reg. 

Realistically it wont work unless the RFL make it a requirement and turn it into a proper competition.

Agreed.  Hulls arrangement with Donny also includes their own coach.  It seems as if the RFL and other Clubs favour DR over Reserves for financial reasons alone.  

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29 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

Every SL club should be forced to run under 16s,18s & 21s/reserves or else they can't use the marquee rule

Championship clubs should at least run a under 21s/reserves...with under 18s encouraged but optional..

That's right and if not no Super League place

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24 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I believe every team in Superleague should be running a reserve or U23 (with a number for over age players) team, with regards to academy I think that they should at least some involvement, even if that is a shared team, for instance the City of Hull Academy.

My understanding is that it was lack of regular fixtures persuaded Saints not to pursue the reserve team but I can't remember where I saw that.

I don't think you can just get the teams up and running, therefore a time table should be set out, for instance in 5 years every SL team should be running a reserve/U23 team and have a share in an academy. This should be enforced, no teams no SL place. By the same token I would have enforceable minimum criteria for grounds too.

Any team wanting to enter SL, whether that be a new (eg New York)  or existing (eg Leigh) would have to meet the criteria before being allowed to join the competition

And academies.

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16 minutes ago, MZH said:

 Realistically it wont work unless the RFL make it a requirement and turn it into a proper competition.

Is it going to under the jurisdiction of the RFL or SL, Mr Pearson is the one making the noises, and he had his SL cap on at the time to quote him "among the senior SL clubs"

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57 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I believe that we now only have Wigan, Wire and Wakey in SL, Fax in the Championship and Keighley in Championship1 being the only teams now running reserves teams, Hull and Saints being the latest withdrawals, how long before there will be none at all?

I think there are presently 13 academy teams, should it be a requirement for every team at least SL and Championship to run them? 

If so how do teams like Batley and Dewsbury fare being so close to Wakey, Cas, Leeds and Bradford, or indeed Leigh in the shadow of Wigan, Wire and Saints? Should proffesional clubs be responsible for the Community game in their own demarcation areas to promote the game. 

In his recent interview Mr Adam Pearson says that the participation figures in Sport England are hugely important (he means depressing) and getting the community game organised is part of that, there's a real feeling among senior SL clubs that we are going to be able to get hold of this issue now. Not in the future, not in months to come, but this month. Now!

Is it that the senior SL clubs will be looking after all the community game country wide not only their own backyard, or are other area's earmarked for "natural wasteage"? 

It will be interesting to see what they announce this month. Now! or will it be part of the requirement for SL entry, perhaps Leigh and Toronto could join alleigence a run a joint Academy as being most probably the next best 2 teams outside SL, if it can happen in Hull why not elsewhere, after all they FC and KR are two completely independant organisations, only geography aligns them.

Catalans run a reserve team, as do Toulouse

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15 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

Amazing how Fax and Keighley can run a reserve side but 3/4 of SL can't.

Just hope the new set up will introduce compulsory participation for at least SL teams.

In Fax's case the supporters club make great efforts in helping to fund the team,and as a consequence we are giving many local lads a chance at our game rather than moving to Union.

Its not as straightforward as that though is it. For some teams, reserves work and thats great. For others, loans and DR work better. In my mind at least, playing on loan for a season is far better for the experience it provides than just the reserves. Though I do see the reserves as a valuable step on the path.

Personally I would like to see a reserve team league perhaps as a Wednesday evening slot for games With games played at Amateur clubs venues. This league could take the form of an u23s with the option for 3 or 4 older players. 

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5 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Agreed.  Hulls arrangement with Donny also includes their own coach.  It seems as if the RFL and other Clubs favour DR over Reserves for financial reasons alone.  

A question I have asked before, if player A is on DR to another club, who pays his wages for the period spent on DR.

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Slightly off topic, all SL clubs should have an reserve team, the real plus in this that D/R in league 1 would almost cease, creating a a gap for players who have slipped the net in when they were younger. 

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2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Catalans run a reserve team, as do Toulouse

And................ Catalans are already in SL, Tolouse are nowhere near ready, but irrespective of that do you not think that the other clubs who would be as deserving as Toulouse would not start an academy tomorrow if that is all they require for entry, simple economics, SL funding v Championship funding.

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it makes me laugh when super greed teams  say they cant afford reserves back in the 70's when no real money in the game everyone had an A team now boo hoo we only get 1.8 million sky money they cost so much so no reserves

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3 minutes ago, newbe said:

Slightly off topic, all SL clubs should have an reserve team, the real plus in this that D/R in league 1 would almost cease, creating a a gap for players who have slipped the net in when they were younger. 

Not of topic at all Newbie, it is a very relevant statement, again if the expansion programme gathers momentum and players move overseas then all the way up the chain gaps will have to be filled, the alternative, clubs close.

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45 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

Every SL club should be forced to run under 16s,18s & 21s/reserves or else they can't use the marquee rule

Championship clubs should at least run a under 21s/reserves...with under 18s encouraged but optional..

 the amateur game at this moment in time is struggling for players, wouldn't 16s, 18s & 21s/reserve take players away forcing many amateur clubs to fold ?

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40 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

Amazing how Fax and Keighley can run a reserve side but 3/4 of SL can't.

Just hope the new set up will introduce compulsory participation for at least SL teams.

In Fax's case the supporters club make great efforts in helping to fund the team,and as a consequence we are giving many local lads a chance at our game rather than moving to Union.

The amateur game in Keighley is just about dead compared to a few years ago.

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11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And................ Catalans are already in SL, Tolouse are nowhere near ready, but irrespective of that do you not think that the other clubs who would be as deserving as Toulouse would not start an academy tomorrow if that is all they require for entry, simple economics, SL funding v Championship funding.

You opened this thread stating the teams you believed were still running a reserves team. I was merely correcting you. You're now going off on a tangent about academies

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44 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

My understanding is that it was lack of regular fixtures persuaded Saints not to pursue the reserve team but I can't remember where I saw that.

 

same thing happened at FEV  playing once every four five weeks lads went back to community clubs wasn't helped when super greed clubs refused to play championship sides because according to wigan standard of players in championship not good enough

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12 minutes ago, POR said:

it makes me laugh when super greed teams  say they cant afford reserves back in the 70's when no real money in the game everyone had an A team now boo hoo we only get 1.8 million sky money they cost so much so no reserves

On this...

Lee briers once said it'll cos £300,000 for warrington to run a reserves...last year SL clubs & the RFL agreed to raise the salary cap by £275,000 and add another marquee player..

Clubs obviously have money to spend it at the top of the game but not the grassroots....yeah right.

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