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Dave T

WCC Scheduling

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9 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said:

You should recognise your hypocrisy then. 

Perhaps when you recognise sarcasm?

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Perhaps when you recognise sarcasm?

I think you'll find I did. No doubt you can now show me your comments on the rfl and the timing of the WCC when it was on Monday morning in the biggest RL market in the world last year.

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8 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said:

I think you'll find I did. No doubt you can now show me your comments on the rfl and the timing of the WCC when it was on Monday morning in the biggest RL market in the world last year.

My friend. I think if you would like to look back I have been extremely critical of the WCC/WCS and the lack of effort put into what should/could be a huge benefit for the game.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

1. That long boring pointless story you told after repeating back to me what I said

Oh I see, so no examples then...

Quote

2. Ahhh, Australian Culture. Where three games played consecutively isnt a tripleheader. Divided by a common language eh!

So if a cinema plays three unconnected movies in a row and you have to pay for entry to each individual movie it's a triple-header then? Cause that can be extrapolated from what you are saying, but you wouldn't want to be thorough though would you, that might be "long and boring".

You do realise that the Wigan v Rabbits and Hull v Saints games are being shown on Fox, and BTW are being sold as a double header, and that the WCC is being shown on Nine by it's self.

Do you even realise that Nine and Fox aren't the same thing...

Quote

3. Good, Im glad we agree that the NRL/ARLC should be criticised for these things. Seems weird you argued so vociferously the opposite but they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, you drank. Good work. 

You see we do agree that the NRL is " short-sighted parochial organisation", where we disagree is that you think that the RFL/SL isn't just as bad if not worse.

But I know, you guys played some random pointless internationals/exhibition games in foreign countries a few times with no continued funding or support for the host nations after the games and you let some random cashed up international teams into some of your comps... Big f##king whoop, you're so virtuous... 

The NRL has played random internationals and exhibition games and they've let random cashed up business men start clubs in their comps too, the only differences between the NRL ans RFL that I can see is that the NRL has given up on the headline catching BS and doubled down on the stuff that matters in the real world- money and resources, and have continued to bank roll RL in NZ, the PIs, and a growing number of other nations and areas while the RFL has cut actual substantial funding and support to the nations around it, and the other difference is that the RFL, it's clubs, and it's fans seem to think that the NRL owes them something and that the NRL is obliged to do things like the WCC or one off internationals in Denver with no support planned to grow the sport in Denver after the game is over...

Edited by The Great Dane

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11 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

1.Oh I see, so no examples then...

2.So if a cinema plays three unconnected movies in a row and you have to pay for entry to each individual movie it's a triple-header then? Cause that can be extrapolated from what you are saying, but you wouldn't want to be thorough though would you, that might be "long and boring".

You do realise that the Wigan v Rabbits and Hull v Saints games are being shown on Fox, and BTW are being sold as a double header, and that the WCC is being shown on Nine by it's self.

Do you even realise that Nine and Fox aren't the same thing...

3.You see we do agree that the NRL is " short-sighted parochial organisation", where we disagree is that you think that the RFL/SL isn't just as bad if not worse.

But I know, you guys played some random pointless internationals/exhibition games in foreign countries a few times with no continued funding or support for the host nations after the games and you let some random cashed up international teams into some of your comps... Big f##king whoop, you're so virtuous... 

The NRL has played random internationals and exhibition games and they've let random cashed up business men start clubs in their comps too, the only differences between the NRL ans RFL that I can see is that the NRL has given up on the headline catching BS and doubled down on the stuff that matters in the real world- money and resources, and have continued to bank roll RL in NZ, the PIs, and a growing number of other nations and areas while the RFL has cut actual substantial funding and support to the nations around it, and the other difference is that the RFL, it's clubs, and it's fans seem to think that the NRL owes them something and that the NRL is obliged to do it, like the WCC or one off internationals in Denver with no support planned to grow the sport in Denver after the game is over...

8

1. Other than the one I gave, sure.

2. You understand the criticism is about the organisation right?

3. Oh yeah mate, I think the RFL/SL are a hugely forward thinking far sighted organisation, Big fan of what they have been doing with the WCC and WCS. Oh no, you got me!

Edited by scotchy1

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On 11/01/2018 at 7:14 AM, Sports Prophet said:

That's what happens when a fixture is scheduled and managed by those that consider the WCC an after thought.

Sad really.

Can't believe the back and forth of this discussion. The main sticking point is being missed by both sides of the argument.

I will refer above to my original comment and expand.

The WCC is organised by the home club and home governors. Planning for the fixture is not even considered until Oct/Nov prior.

The sticking point is that the WCC is delivered by organisations that understandably have higher priorities. Even less of a concern are the viewing figures of a country the other side of the world. The return on investment in caring is minimal and perhaps a loss. Why would Melbourne and the NRL take a hit on short term profit over potentially negligible long term aspirations?

The fact of the matter is, neither the RFL or NRL should be managing this fixture. Their primary remit represents a conflict of interest with the ambitions and potential an international fixture of this nature should represent.

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8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Can't believe the back and forth of this discussion. The main sticking point is being missed by both sides of the argument.

I will refer above to my original comment and expand.

The WCC is organised by the home club and home governors. Planning for the fixture is not even considered until Oct/Nov prior.

The sticking point is that the WCC is delivered by organisations that understandably have higher priorities. Even less of a concern are the viewing figures of a country the other side of the world. The return on investment in caring is minimal and perhaps a loss. Why would Melbourne and the NRL take a hit on short term profit over potentially negligible long term aspirations?

The fact of the matter is, neither the RFL or NRL should be managing this fixture. Their primary remit represents a conflict of interest with the ambitions and potential an international fixture of this nature should represent.

nobody is missing that point. But it has been said and nothing else to say on it.

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The big problem here is that if the Aussies then buy into it as a Friday night event, we have a challenge as that restricts the growth here moving forward.

This event apparently gets nothing at the moment in Oz, so the starting point is the Saturday night slot which meets the UK requirements and saw Sydney Roosters attract a massive crowd in 2014. That is the starting point - now that may mean that the Aussie broadcaster gets a slightly reduced audience, but as I have proven audiences for events are available on Saturday just as they are Friday (I have provided conclusive proof so we don't need to go over that again).

It is no good holding it in England one year and getting all its viewership in the UK, and then the following year in Oz and getting all its viewership in Oz. Annually we should be trying to build the audience in both parts of the world.

Basically we need to do what we do with the RLWC Final. It needs to be played at a time where the worldwide audience can be optimised.

The simple aim should be to have the overseas viewers watching as late on a Saturday morning as possible. That means 8pm Friday in the UK, and 8pm Saturday in Oz. That is what we should be selling, and growing that and getting the price for that.

Edited by Dave T

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12 hours ago, East Coast Tiger said:

1 - Are the sooks still whinging that this and isn't on at 8pm GMT? 

2 - We know northerners don't understand the world south of Sheffield (they're an expansion club right?) but this is ridiculous.

3 - Where was the thread previously when games were on Monday mornings here? No complaints then? 

 

1 - nobody has suggested that. it would be retarded - that would mean a Melbourne 7am kick off. Although if it would get you guys viewing figures you'd be all over it.

2 - The irony. It seems we do understand how the globe works, and it seems you can stage games at reasonable times for all!

3 - You will find plenty of criticism of the RFL for scheduling, but that doesn't suit your argument. But in fairness I would expect those affected to be most passionate about it, but no, not a peep, as it isn't in your part of this flat earth.

 

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15 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

It doesn't really matter what day or time that it's played the ratings are always abysmal, they're normally roughly around 25-30k.

To put that into perspective that's similar numbers to what the Koori Knockout and Murri Carnival pull, and the Koori and Murri carnivals are amateur indigenous round robins in NSW and QLD respectively, in other words they are competitions almost completely made up of nameless park footballers most of whom have never looked like they could ever go professional let alone have trialed with a professional team.  

Again for perspective, this draws roughly the same viewership down here as the WCC- 

Now to be fair those figures are only the live ratings and don't include replays of the WCC, cause I don't know what they are and as far as I can find they aren't published, but I'd imagine that if you included the ratings for replays that the ratings would be larger then the Murri and Koori cups, but the point still stands.

Also I'm not trying to ###### anybody off, I'm just trying to give you some perspective and to get you to understand where things are for the WCC down here.

TGD - can I ask where you get your figures from? Not sure what the source is over there. Are you sure the 25-30k number was for WCC and not the SL games that were shown?

Also, what was the number for the game that Roosters staged in 2014?

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12 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

That's all well and good but the event isn't going to continue at all if interest doesn't grow in Australia, so the UK audience is going to have to make some concessions otherwise there isn't going to be a WCC at all.

And frankly the reason that the WCC is in the position that it is in is because Australian audiences have been completely alienated for the events whole existence, if you want the WCC to grow or at the very least become a viable product again then Australian audiences need to be taken into consideration as well...

Which is exactly what I have said from the start of this.

It isn't about the UK fans making concessions though, the numbers will just plummet, how can we justify that commercially?

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

nobody is missing that point. But it has been said and nothing else to say on it.

Sure DT and I am neither disagreeing with either argument, as both are equally valid.

 My point renders both arguments moot.

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Just now, Sports Prophet said:

Sure DT and I am neither disagreeing with either argument, as both are equally valid.

 My point renders both arguments moot.

Not really. The RFL staged terribly organised and scheduled events for the last 4N and the World Cup just gone had the same thing.

It is something we just haven't got as a sport, no matter which club/body is doing the organisation.

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Just now, Dave T said:

Not really. The RFL staged terribly organised and scheduled events for the last 4N and the World Cup just gone had the same thing.

It is something we just haven't got as a sport, no matter which club/body is doing the organisation.

That’s my point mate. We have the wrong people in charge of running the event. Until changed, we can only expect more of the same.

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Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

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10 minutes ago, Allora said:

Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

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12 minutes ago, Allora said:

Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

The attitude of 'it is what it is' because 'we live on a globe' is far more harmful.

Accepting poor things is wrong.

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Just now, Dave T said:

The attitude of 'it is what it is' because 'we live on a globe' is far more harmful.

Accepting poor things is wrong.

When the game is played in England I do not believe any consideration was ever given at all to the time it was shown in Australia.

It did not bother me at all, I either chose to get up at ungodly hour, recorded it or did not bother with it.

This time its in Melbourne and they are playing it when it suits them and their media partners and there is outrage from a few fans on a small Rugby League forum....

Plenty of people accept poor or average things, you could argue that case for Super League.

 

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15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

I doubt the organisers care, they do what fits for them, same as the UK teams do when its played there.

Do you know that any thought was given to the Australian time zone when played in the UK?

 

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16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

I think we all agree Dave, but given Channel Nine got this after the other games were est up, they didn’t want to compete with the games on Fox, and given Melbourne have bent everyone over a barrel on this they felt they could just go ahead and schedule when they think they’ll get the best crowd.

Wood has gone, the WCC is a club comp so makes sense the new SL board will organize going forward. Lenagan and Pearson have shown an appetite for SL nRL games and Heitherington has piled out the stops to make sure the game happens this year. In the new SL board clubs will be accountable to each other, and Pearson has emphasized the need to push our products more confidently. Let’s hop that means we have far better planning and engagement going forward. 

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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

TGD - can I ask where you get your figures from? Not sure what the source is over there. Are you sure the 25-30k number was for WCC and not the SL games that were shown?

Also, what was the number for the game that Roosters staged in 2014?

Media Week is my preferred source as they are pretty comprehensive when it comes to sport- https://twitter.com/MediaweekAUS 

Sometimes I use Tv tonight but they only publish the numbers for each channel and the highest rated program for the day normally- https://tvtonight.com.au/category/ratings 

On occasion I'll just go straight to the source and use OzTam, but OzTam only keep the last couple of years of data readily available to the public and it can sometimes be hard to find what you are looking for if you don't know exactly which report it is in- http://www.oztam.com.au/

The threads on ratings on League Unlimited can be good too as they generally compile most of the data on RL events, and most of the stuff on there is from Media Week too. 

The problem with the WCC/WCS is finding it I'm afraid, some years I think weren't even broadly published (well apart from on OzTam, but we can't access most of that now), or at least I can't find them anymore if they were, but the best source for numbers I've found is this little collection from Media Week-https://twitter.com/search?q=%40MediaweekAUS %23WorldClubSeries &src=typd

But I can remember numbers roughly around 25-30k mark from earlier years as well. 

 

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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

Which is exactly what I have said from the start of this.

It isn't about the UK fans making concessions though, the numbers will just plummet, how can we justify that commercially?

You see Australian sports fans have been through this before with Super Rugby and we know how badly it can turn out if there's no give or take, and it's all about concessions if you want it to work.

NZ and SA refused to make a few concessions to the ARU, put them into a terrible negotiating position with their broadcasters here in Australia, and boom 5-10 years later not only is Super in Australia going down the gurgler but the whole ARU is threatening to do so.

If you want the WCC to grow in Australia every now and again you are going to have to give it a chance to push it's self into the spotlight down here, that means that every now and then things aren't going to be perfectly convenient for the fans in the UK, just as it isn't always convenient for the fans here in Australia (traditionally it's never been convenient for the fans down here when it comes to the WCC).

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13 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

You see Australian sports fans have been through this before with Super Rugby and we know how badly it can turn out if there's no give or take, and it's all about concessions if you want it to work.

NZ and SA refused to make a few concessions to the ARU, put them into a terrible negotiating position with their broadcasters here in Australia, and boom 5-10 years later not only is Super in Australia going down the gurgler but the whole ARU is threatening to do so.

If you want the WCC to grow in Australia every now and again you are going to have to give it a chance to push it's self into the spotlight down here, that means that every now and then things aren't going to be perfectly convenient for the fans in the UK, just as it isn't always convenient for the fans here in Australia (traditionally it's never been convenient for the fans down here when it comes to the WCC).

Nobody is asking for it to be perfectly convenient for the UK fans. Just not 9am on a weekday. That has almost certainly cost it 160k viewers from the off. 

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10 hours ago, Allora said:

I doubt the organisers care, they do what fits for them, same as the UK teams do when its played there.

Do you know that any thought was given to the Australian time zone when played in the UK?

 

They won't answer this because it shows they're hypocritical whingers. 

It's been on Monday morning here the past few years and not a peep out of these sooks about it. Hmmm what a surprise. It's only a problem when it's poms who don't like the timing apparently. 

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