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Bedford Roughyed

If a second EU referendum happened tomorrow...

If a second EU referendum happened tomorrow...  

58 members have voted

  1. 1. If a second EU referendum happened tomorrow, would you...

    • Vote the same way as last time?
      54
    • Switch your vote?
      1
    • Not vote?
      0
    • Didn't vote last time but would if given the chance?
      3


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8 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Anyhoo, the unscientific poll underlines the feeling that both sides are pretty much the same and any (unlikely) second referendum would be very close and not the convincing win Farage seemed to suggest.  

With the benefit of a day to reflect, I'm starting to suspect we'll see a few tactics like this deployed, Brexit, any Brexit will surfice for many, by making it appear to be a struggle to simply get that done despite the enemys of the state and saboteurs will be a great foil to getting a rubbish deal!

If we do have a third referendum, you can bet your life if remain wins Farage will be out calling for a fourth.

 

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3 minutes ago, TMF said:

Having seen the way the way the EU power brokers think about the UK

Which thoughts are you specifically referring to?

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A third referendum? What are you on about? What world do you actually live in? We had the one and only referendum. A once in a lifetime referendum, as Cameron said. Get over it, move on.  As to my thoughts, you obviously don't read/see the news. Anyway, what has this got to do with Rugby League? Stick with the Guardian shrek.

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1 hour ago, WSCR said:

Well we, my wife and,I voted to remain after a long period of discussion,but due to the conduct of the remainers  in the UK led by the likes of Tony Blair and various other celebrities followed by the conduct of some of the EU top dogs we would vote leave if we were to have another referendum forced on us.

The conduct of these people,many who have made a fortune out of the EU,plus some major media organisations,with their utter bias in favour of the EU ,have made us realise that the sooner we are out of this organisation the better.

None of my friends who voted to leave have changed their minds,several who voted remain would vote to leave,we all feel that the result should stand and people should accept the referendum result.

As someone has already commented when the likes of Bob Geldorf want to remain I think we should leave.

I don't believe you.

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17 minutes ago, TMF said:

A third referendum? What are you on about? What world do you actually live in? We had the one and only referendum. A once in a lifetime referendum, as Cameron said. Get over it, move on.  As to my thoughts, you obviously don't read/see the news. Anyway, what has this got to do with Rugby League? Stick with the Guardian shrek.

Erm, its an EU thread hidden away in AoB, it having nothing to do with Rugby League is kind of the point.

Still, interesting  you've jumped straight to the cheap shots rather than having a conversation/discussion on the topic brought to the fore by the countries leading campaigner for Brexit only yesterday and not by some columnist nobodies heard of or bothers to read hidden away in The Guardian.

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24 minutes ago, TMF said:

A third referendum? What are you on about? What world do you actually live in? We had the one and only referendum. A once in a lifetime referendum, as Cameron said. Get over it, move on.  As to my thoughts, you obviously don't read/see the news. Anyway, what has this got to do with Rugby League? Stick with the Guardian shrek.

We had the referendum and, following on from that, joined the EEC in 1973. Get over it, move on.

Or accept that further votes as the years go by are also valid, including ones that may contradict the one that gave you the verdict you wanted.

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1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

We had the referendum and, following on from that, joined the EEC in 1973. 

Not quite.  We joined the EEC and then had the referendum.

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31 minutes ago, TMF said:

We had the one and only referendum. A once in a lifetime referendum, as Cameron said. Get over it, move on.  

The poll/thread was after Farage suggested another referendum. It was just to test the theory, held by most, that people wouldn't vote any differently.  I

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43 minutes ago, TMF said:

Having seen the way the way the EU power brokers think about the UK, I would say any one who wants to stay in this cesspit of pension protectors is an idiot. I think vote leavers are now more entrenched than ever to leave. However, we now have snowflakes, with no experience of life and being protected by parents and being modey coddled by liberal educators, are now able to vote. That worries me and for their future welfare. 

Keeping on site, I think Barrow will survive in the championship this season.

A second referendum will not count on the entrenched leavers or remainers. Given the narrow margin last time, it'll be the swing voters, the undecided, who'd push a second vote one side or the other. So insulting them and calling them names isn't a genius strategy. 

Paint a lie on a bus, on the other hand, and you can probably rely on the feeble-minded vote. But will they be enough? Or should you, perhaps, try to interact with your fellow human beings in a civilised and adult manner?

It could make all the difference, in the end...

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Just now, Bedford Roughyed said:

The poll/thread was after Farage suggested another referendum. It was just to test the theory, held by most, that people wouldn't vote any differently.  I

And not the first time that Farage has suggested a second referendum, either. Surely the icon of the isolationists can't be wrong?

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The taxpayer has already foot the multi million pound bill for a referendum on whether to leave or remain. That question has been answered so move on, absolutely no point in asking it again.

What I would be in favour of is parliament running an on-line questionnaire setting out the main options for Brexit, running from the extreme hard brexit stance through to the brexit where it's almost the status quo in all but name. The electorate can then rank their top 3 preferences. 

While not binding it would at least let parliament gain a firm understanding of what the electorate as a whole would like the final brexit outcomes to look like and this is what they should be aiming to then achieve.

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6 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

The taxpayer has already foot the multi million pound bill for a referendum on whether to leave or remain. That question has been answered so move on, absolutely no point in asking it again.

©1975

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20 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

©1975

Except in 75 the EU didn't exist. In that referendum the vote was whether to remain in a 9 member state common market. 

The last one was whether to remain in an EU with its own parliament,  central currency and legal powers over individual states.

2 votes on membership of 2 hugely different institutions. A yes to the first and a no to the second.

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Except in 75 the EU didn't exist. In that referendum the vote was whether to remain in a 9 member state common market. 

The last one was whether to remain in an EU with its own parliament,  central currency and legal powers over individual states.

2 votes on membership of 2 hugely different institutions. A yes to the first and a no to the second.

The EEC/EC/EU keeps on evolving. There is every chance that it can go in ways that we may distrust. So we need to have regular decisions on whether this what we want.

Not a final dead-end, as soon as the vote we find convenient comes through. Democracy should always leave a chance for the people to have their say.

Edited by Futtocks

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10 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Why don't you believe them?

I am always suspicious of the line, "I was hardened supporter of A, but then I realised the behaviour of their supports and saw the logic of B".

I have seen it IRL and when I know the person, I know it is not true.

Edited by Bob8

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8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

The EEC/EC/EU keeps on evolving. There is every chance that it can go in ways that we may distrust. So we need to have regular decisions on whether this what we want.

Not a final dead-end, as soon as the vote we find convenient comes through. Democracy should always leave a chance for the people to have their say.

There has been a European Parliament since 1952 and the UK agreed to comply with European law on accession, as does every country signing and entering into an international treaty.

The only valid difference Toppy mentions is that there is a single currency, and we are not even in that FFS.

Edited by Just Browny

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4 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

There has been a European Parliament since 1952 and the UK agreed to comply with European law on accession, as does every country signing and entering into an international treaty.

The only valid difference Toppy mentions is that there is a single currency, and we are not even in that FFS.

If you want to make it out like the choice in '74 and the choice in '16 were the same then fair enough to you, it appears that for most it was different proposition and was sold as such. The scope and range of European legislative functions, including the aims of the believers in the project, have developed significantly since then. 

I'm glad you mentioned not being in the euro though, as I think in the future that will be pointed at as one of the origins of Brexit. 

For what its worth, going forward I reckon there's a good chance we'd have either been sidelined, relegated to 2nd tier membership, or removed altogether from the EU in the next 40 years if we continued the trend of opt outs.

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12 hours ago, Futtocks said:

The proven liar and EU profiteer Nigel Farage, the proven liar and EU profiteer Paul Nuttall, plus the overwhelming majority of the UK's national newspapers, who turned out be bare-faced liars as well? Utter bias? Yep.

Nice folks, if you're a coprophile.

And that's before get onto the people who paint promises on buses.

IK always think that.  Whatever the arguments over Remain or Leave, just look at those behind the Leave campaigns.  Murdoch, Farage, Nutall, the Barclay Brothers, Nigel Lawson, Redwood all what I would call nasty pieces of work.  Why would anyone want to back anything this lot are in favour of?

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4 minutes ago, Trojan said:

IK always think that.  Whatever the arguments over Remain or Leave, just look at those behind the Leave campaigns.  Murdoch, Farage, Nutall, the Barclay Brothers, Nigel Lawson, Redwood all what I would call nasty pieces of work.  Why would anyone want to back anything this lot are in favour of?

Perhaps because some of us were interested in leaving the EU rather than who else wanted to leave the EU.

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18 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Perhaps because some of us were interested in leaving the EU rather than who else wanted to leave the EU.

You never thought that you may be on the side of the baddies?

 

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God knows how some of the leavers are going to feel in 10-15 years time when we re-join the EU but lose out opt-outs and have to accept the Euro as part of the package.

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38 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If you want to make it out like the choice in '74 and the choice in '16 were the same then fair enough to you, it appears that for most it was different proposition and was sold as such. The scope and range of European legislative functions, including the aims of the believers in the project, have developed significantly since then. 

I'm glad you mentioned not being in the euro though, as I think in the future that will be pointed at as one of the origins of Brexit. 

For what its worth, going forward I reckon there's a good chance we'd have either been sidelined, relegated to 2nd tier membership, or removed altogether from the EU in the next 40 years if we continued the trend of opt outs.

This already is starting to happen I think. France are far more influential than the U.K. in the EU despite a similar population. This is largely because we're not in the Euro or Schengen (joining either of which would be a disaster). The last UK leader with any real influence in Europe was Margaret Thatcher and that was when there were 9, 10 or 12 members (it increased during her leadership). 

All opt outs would be likely to be scrapped if we wanted to stay now and to me EFTA membership would be much better than EU membership without the opt outs. 

Also a second referendum would destroy our negotiations with the EU. It would take up far too much negotiation time and if the result was Leave we would probably end up having to leave with no deal due to time wasting  

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3 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

God knows how some of the leavers are going to feel in 10-15 years time when we re-join the EU but lose out opt-outs and have to accept the Euro as part of the package.

If we stay now we have to give up all of that. The EU in 10-15 years, if it still exists, will look very different to what it does now 

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Just now, bowes said:

This already is starting to happen I think. France are far more influential than the U.K. in the EU despite a similar population. This is largely because we're not in the Euro or Schengen (joining either of which would be a disaster). The last UK leader with any real influence in Europe was Margaret Thatcher and that was when there were 9, 10 or 12 members (it increased during her leadership). 

All opt outs would be likely to be scrapped if we wanted to stay now and to me EFTA membership would be much better than EU membership without the opt outs. 

Also a second referendum would destroy our negotiations with the EU. It would take up far too much negotiation time and if the result was Leave we would probably end up having to leave with no deal due to time wasting  

Why?

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