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JM2010

Whose job should it be to develop/expand the grassroots and amateur game

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I've read several posts on here about the decline of teams in the community game. Recruiting and developing juniors is, IMO, the most important part of RL.

Should the RFL be responsible for providing development officers, supporting community clubs, coaching in schools, creating new junior sides and expanding into new areas or should a lot of this be done by the local professional clubs? 

I think the RFL, professional clubs and the regional leagues should be working closely together to strengthen the amateur game. 

How this would work is is open for debate 

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I think professional clubs should be responsible in their areas, with assistance from RFL. The RFL should take the lead in areas without professional clubs and try and link in where possible 

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The RFL could financially support clubs who take on developing Rl in their areas - there could be a sliding scale of payments for each level the club supports including juniors, open age, U16s, U23s womens rl, wheelchair rl, touch rugby, street rugby and masters.

As DD says - if there is no professional club to assist then the RFL need development officers who can help with any projects.

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The first thing that would need to happen is clubs agree to let more TV money go into junior development. Either through them or through the RFL. Until that happens there’s very little money earmarked for development. 

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Grassroots development is and must always be the remit of the governing body. End of.

The governing body can leverage off professional clubs by influencing or for lack of a better word, coerce the clubs to assist, but English and in my opinion British grassroots RL must always be the remit of the RFL.

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7 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I think professional clubs should be responsible in their areas, with assistance from RFL. The RFL should take the lead in areas without professional clubs and try and link in where possible 

You serious?

Commercial entities (pro clubs) should be in charge of grass roots junior and amateur (ie: participation sport) development??

Which sports follow this model?

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2 hours ago, Celt said:

You serious?

Commercial entities (pro clubs) should be in charge of grass roots junior and amateur (ie: participation sport) development??

Which sports follow this model?

Exactly, there needs to be total separation.  NFL teams don't run reserves or academies. They don't organise local community leagues. They are sports entertainment  businesses. The RFL should organise  the amateur game and set up regional academies (across the uk).

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8 hours ago, Celt said:

You serious?

Commercial entities (pro clubs) should be in charge of grass roots junior and amateur (ie: participation sport) development??

Which sports follow this model?

Yes deadly serious. The clubs can build the links with the local community (ie. future fan base and sponsors), they have the right resources in terms of coaching setups to be able to talent spot and feed into the right systems. The RFL has none of that. The RFL should act as the guiding force in these areas, ensuring the clubs are carrying out their roles responsibly.

You only need to look at the work that Leeds Rhinos foundation has done to show how it should be done. I believe Warrington do a similarly good job. New clubs are starting up in areas of Leeds that never had them before.

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18 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I think professional clubs should be responsible in their areas, with assistance from RFL. The RFL should take the lead in areas without professional clubs and try and link in where possible 

Have to go with this. It should be the professional clubs responsibility as they are representing the area! the RFL's job is to make sure their is officials and coaches to conduct the sport in a safe and professional manner and also provide the relevant structures and pathways from the grassroots through to the highest level.

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Wasn't there development officers before, but if I remember correctly wasn't the plug pulled/or being pulled on them.

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50 minutes ago, StadiumXIII said:

Have to go with this. It should be the professional clubs responsibility as they are representing the area! the RFL's job is to make sure their is officials and coaches to conduct the sport in a safe and professional manner and also provide the relevant structures and pathways from the grassroots through to the highest level.

What about to those area's that don't have a professional club.

Personally I think it should be a separate structure than the professional clubs. Of course those professional clubs can do lots & lots to support the amateur sport structure.

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21 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I think professional clubs should be responsible in their areas, with assistance from RFL. The RFL should take the lead in areas without professional clubs and try and link in where possible 

It wouldnt work for most clubs they would just mis-manage the funds and find ways to cream money off the amateur game to waste on a playing budget.

 

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14 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Yes deadly serious. The clubs can build the links with the local community (ie. future fan base and sponsors), they have the right resources in terms of coaching setups to be able to talent spot and feed into the right systems. The RFL has none of that. The RFL should act as the guiding force in these areas, ensuring the clubs are carrying out their roles responsibly.

You only need to look at the work that Leeds Rhinos foundation has done to show how it should be done. I believe Warrington do a similarly good job. New clubs are starting up in areas of Leeds that never had them before.

Hang on - can you be clear here? You now say the RFL should be " the guiding force" but previously said that the pro clubs should run grass roots and junior development!!

Yes - well done Leeds (and perhaps Warrington).... But what about the clubs who CGAF??????

What if Wakefield says "1.8M salary cap??? We can only afford 1M.... Will we be spraying money on West Yorkshire amateurs? Will we Faaaaack!". 

What happens then?

And as I said, what " real" sports follow that model?

Thanks

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9 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

It wouldnt work for most clubs they would just mis-manage the funds and find ways to cream money off the amateur game to waste on a playing budget.

 

Absolutely.

Politely put. You are basically telling the guy his post is retarded.

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11 hours ago, redjonn said:

What about to those area's that don't have a professional club.

Personally I think it should be a separate structure than the professional clubs. Of course those professional clubs can do lots & lots to support the amateur sport structure.

Well it would be a matter of waiting for the right people to come along and express an interest in expansion into new areas. The RFL can hold clinics etc.. there but as far as that. There's not much they can do, they can't really force RL into places that won't support it.

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On 16/02/2018 at 7:41 PM, Sports Prophet said:

Grassroots development is and must always be the remit of the governing body. End of.

The governing body can leverage off professional clubs by influencing or for lack of a better word, coerce the clubs to assist, but English and in my opinion British grassroots RL must always be the remit of the RFL.

Yeah, agree with this. In areas with club presence the RFL should absolutely utilise the clubs, but clubs and governing bodies ultimately have very different aims.

Its why clubs should never run 'the sport', simply their comp if anything.

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6 hours ago, Celt said:

Absolutely.

Politely put. You are basically telling the guy his post is retarded.

I can see why people would want to remove it from the RFL.

Having foundations or regional development bodies has more chance of working.

The RFL just reflects the short term thinking in the game, the clubs are likeky to be even more so.

 

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Pro clubs should pay a fee to the amateur club that the player came from...

X amount once a FT contract signed 

X amount on 100 appearances 

RFL to pay a one off X amount for first England cap.

Whilst there's a danger of creating superclubs in the amateur leagues it would create a revenue stream and incentive to continue the good work of investing in junior development.

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2 hours ago, yipyee said:

Pro clubs should pay a fee to the amateur club that the player came from...

X amount once a FT contract signed 

X amount on 100 appearances 

RFL to pay a one off X amount for first England cap.

Whilst there's a danger of creating superclubs in the amateur leagues it would create a revenue stream and incentive to continue the good work of investing in junior development.

If I remember correctly, when Joe Keyes and Alex Walker signed pro-deals at London, Brentwood Eels received around £85 per player as their 'incentive' for providing them a club in their youth. There are far greater incentives than the financial ones in being involved in community rugby league, but not many people really get what they are.

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10 hours ago, Celt said:

Hang on - can you be clear here? You now say the RFL should be " the guiding force" but previously said that the pro clubs should run grass roots and junior development!!

Yes - well done Leeds (and perhaps Warrington).... But what about the clubs who CGAF??????

What if Wakefield says "1.8M salary cap??? We can only afford 1M.... Will we be spraying money on West Yorkshire amateurs? Will we Faaaaack!". 

What happens then?

And as I said, what " real" sports follow that model?

Thanks

Yes, I can be clearer for you if you like. The RFL should act as the governing body overseeing junior development, setting parameters and guidelines for these to be undertaken. However, the professional clubs are better suited to deliver that on the ground. These clubs have setup foundations, which are separate charitable status organisations to run this. The Sky Try programme, which is probably the single best thing to come out the latest TV deal, is providing funding which is directed to these separate entities, so there is transparency in funding going in and out, meaning it can't be used for first team development.

Professional clubs can also tap into sponsorship/grants from local businesses/councils to help fund and run the programmes. It really helps these clubs engage with their local communities, which should benefit as these are future supporters/sponsors. Leeds Rhinos Foundation obtains additional grants/sponsorship from Leeds City Council, Mears, ASDA to name just a few. It can also engage with other charitable organisations - receiving a donation from James Milner's foundation late last year

http://www.leedsrhinosfoundation.org/news/32116.php#.WoltPOfLiUk

All this goes far beyond what an individual governing body can do. Leeds Rhinos Foundation started working at the under 7s age group in 2012 when only three local clubs incorporated an under 7s team. Now there are 23. This shows the RFL driven approach wasn't working. Why has Hull's junior development been drying up? Why do you think Sport England reduced our grants and requested grants be allocated more towards ground level?

What do you think has been driving the participation increase in the North East? The Newcastle Thunder Community programme in combination with Sky Try.

If Foundations are not meeting certain criteria then their funding will be cut and that's when the RFL can step in and look at if they can play a more active role in achieving the aims. Of course, in areas where there are no professional clubs, the RFL will need to take the lead and look to link in with professional clubs where possible.

I wish some people would research what the foundations actually do before commenting

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I can see that the club foundations as per Leeds Rhino are and can do an excellent job. Never-the-less from my perspective that's mainly because they are able to put in place full time development officers. The funding from Sky Try being key together with monies from other interested partners.

I am sure that the RFL with similar monies funding regional and local development officers could achieve similar.

So from my perspective and theoretically I do'n't think the foundations are any better than a well funded RFL development officers structure.

I guess I have no background to why prior to Leeds foundation increased development funding why things were not as good.   Is it because Leeds foundation are more able to gain financial support from sponsors etc than the RFL or that they are a better focused organisation. 

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8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Pro clubs should pay a fee to the amateur club that the player came from...

X amount once a FT contract signed 

X amount on 100 appearances 

RFL to pay a one off X amount for first England cap.

Whilst there's a danger of creating superclubs in the amateur leagues it would create a revenue stream and incentive to continue the good work of investing in junior development.

few players would only play 99 games .

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On 17/02/2018 at 3:55 AM, ojx said:

Exactly, there needs to be total separation.  NFL teams don't run reserves or academies. They don't organise local community leagues. They are sports entertainment  businesses. The RFL should organise  the amateur game and set up regional academies (across the uk).

Nonsense, you know full well the college and high school system provides well over a Million budding American Football players. We do not have this system, we have the club foundations and academies. The only reason you dismiss this is because your club does absolutely zero to develop Canadian players. What is ironic is your man Perez committed to grow the Canadian game, and eight years later he has failed to do so and bailed out. As for “Regional academies” across the UK, sorry, but been there and tried that and there is no infrastructure or interest for it as Union dominates outside the M62 – exactly the problem Perez came up against, only Union dominates across the whole of Canada.

On 17/02/2018 at 10:24 AM, DoubleD said:

Yes deadly serious. The clubs can build the links with the local community (ie. future fan base and sponsors), they have the right resources in terms of coaching setups to be able to talent spot and feed into the right systems. The RFL has none of that. The RFL should act as the guiding force in these areas, ensuring the clubs are carrying out their roles responsibly.

You only need to look at the work that Leeds Rhinos foundation has done to show how it should be done. I believe Warrington do a similarly good job. 

Believe?? Why not look them up??

There are foundations at Hull, HKR, Saints, Wigan, Wakey, Bradford, Cas, Huddersfield and Salford as well as Leeds and Wire.  Most of these run academies as well and this was part of the last SKY deal when SKY allocated £17.8M for development of players recognising the problems the game had.

So SL clubs develop the players which is why every time a North American club is promoted to SL and an English club demoted that's a foundation and an academy here out of the window. That's destructive. By the time Perez has his six North American clubs here, half the development system will have gone. Hopefully you will beleive that too.

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49 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Nonsense, you know full well the college and high school system provides well over a Million budding American Football players. We do not have this system, we have the club foundations and academies. The only reason you dismiss this is because your club does absolutely zero to develop Canadian players. What is ironic is your man Perez committed to grow the Canadian game, and eight years later he has failed to do so and bailed out. As for “Regional academies” across the UK, sorry, but been there and tried that and there is no infrastructure or interest for it as Union dominates outside the M62 – exactly the problem Perez came up against, only Union dominates across the whole of Canada.

Relax Parky, Rome wasn't built in a day. TWP are one year old, stop comparing them to clubs with 100+ year histories. They are building development plans in circumstances far more difficult than heartland clubs can imagine.  They can't just open an academy, there would be nobody to play. They don't have to share their plans with you. Just wait and see. :drag:

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People keep saying the RFL should fund this and fund that and of course they should fund the development of the game, but they can't because there is no serious money in RL. Nearly all of the money that comes into the game goes to Super league clubs and they could not care less what happens to anybody else. I know there will be no SL players in the future because there will be no new players being developed at lower levels etc, and the SL clubs should realise that but they sign most of their players before they are 18. They don't care if adult RL below SL dies. Strangely enough the two "semi pro" clubs who seem to be doing the most to develop local players are the two Welsh clubs who don't have a pot to pee in.

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