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nathanfilkins

Quality of Rugby League

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2 Super League games in 2 nights where i have questioned the level of quality of our 'elite' competition.

I have been playing, coaching and watching super league my whole life and last night was the first time I have ever turned off a game from complete boredom. Hull KR and Catalans in that first half were abysmal and that game doesn't deserve to a super league game, but then again what does?

We talk about the Australian game and how we could catch up, yet Leeds (Which i would say is our best side in super league) fell apart this morning and i don't see the 2 sides putting up a fight tomorrow.

I am a Widnes fan so i'm not just having a go at the teams below us for not making the competition 'elite' enough. Tonight's game was not as bad as Thursday nights but not much better. Less handling errors but honestly ask yourselves, what team posed a threat to the opposition tonight? How many line breaks were there in that game? 2/3? I don't remember many and was that because of good defences - No.

Summary:

-Hull KR still look like a championship side

- Catalans look like an amateur side

- Australian game leaps and bounds above ours with no way of catching up

- Warrington are a shadow of their former selves (at least in my opinion as biased as it is)

- And for Widnes, i'm all for youth academies, but relying on youth week in week out is not what you do in an 'elite' league.

Maybe i'm pessimistic but I just want the league to be better, The league that's being broadcasted and labelled the 'elite' in our country is so far not up to standard. We want bigger and better marketing deals for this game and we want to propel it worldwide, maybe sort out the quality on the field too because this is the worst class of rugby teams i have known since I was born (2000 btw). 

Oh and don't get me started on the refs. I'm not one to blame the refs for defeats and i'm not going to, but the amount of times Eddie or Barry or Terry tonight questioned the decision of the Ref, for both teams mind you, was appalling.

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Watched a video of Wigan playing in the late 80s the other day. It was an eye opener. Afraid to say that League then was far more multi-dimensional in its running and passing than today. The team of Edwards, Connolly, Tuigamala et al would massacre their present-day counterparts.

However, for ten glorious minutes this morning Leeds played the game like it used to be. And it was great to see.

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1 minute ago, nathanfilkins said:

2 Super League games in 2 nights where i have questioned the level of quality of our 'elite' competition.

I have been playing, coaching and watching super league my whole life and last night was the first time I have ever turned off a game from complete boredom. Hull KR and Catalans in that first half were abysmal and that game doesn't deserve to a super league game, but then again what does?

We talk about the Australian game and how we could catch up, yet Leeds (Which i would say is our best side in super league) fell apart this morning and i don't see the 2 sides putting up a fight tomorrow.

I am a Widnes fan so i'm not just having a go at the teams below us for not making the competition 'elite' enough. Tonight's game was not as bad as Thursday nights but not much better. Less handling errors but honestly ask yourselves, what team posed a threat to the opposition tonight? How many line breaks were there in that game? 2/3? I don't remember many and was that because of good defences - No.

Summary:

-Hull KR still look like a championship side

- Catalans look like an amateur side

- Australian game leaps and bounds above ours with no way of catching up

- Warrington are a shadow of their former selves (at least in my opinion as biased as it is)

- And for Widnes, i'm all for youth academies, but relying on youth week in week out is not what you do in an 'elite' league.

Maybe i'm pessimistic but I just want the league to be better, The league that's being broadcasted and labelled the 'elite' in our country is so far not up to standard. We want bigger and better marketing deals for this game and we want to propel it worldwide, maybe sort out the quality on the field too because this is the worst class of rugby teams i have known since I was born (2000 btw). 

Oh and don't get me started on the refs. I'm not one to blame the refs for defeats and i'm not going to, but the amount of times Eddie or Barry or Terry tonight questioned the decision of the Ref, for both teams mind you, was appalling.

The problem in comparison from nrl to sl now is money which means more professional services centre of excellence and so on.

as it stands at present the nrl cap now 9.4 million pretty sure correct me if I am wrong around in dollar term bit of 3 million. That’s shows now In quality of competition. 

Being a Aussie I can remember in late 90s and up to mid 2000s good quality imports came to superleague and footy really good, the money on offer was as good as nrl if not better. Trouble is for instance if a Joel moon or bill toupou or Ryan Morgan considered a top import considering there fringe nrl players that’s a problem in 2018.

superleague basically stood still since early 2000s while nrl moved forward a lot not just the cap but new stadiums being built. How to fix it and professionalism find a tv provider that will pay more who will I simply don’t know. 

The upshot is superleague still produces some world class players in graham, burgess and so on. The north of England is still fanatical for code. The angle of North America I can kind of see as long it brings income to rfl, France I don’t know there uk helping them along but development is very very slow on the field. 

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Shambolic scrums and the 10m rule dont help. Much rather see pushing in the scrums and a shorter line. RL was far better and the score margins were closer

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We simply tolerate too much messing about in the game here, coaches should be held to account for their players behaviour.

Players should have their penalty counts monitored and banned when they reach a number of points, with the ban increasing by one game every time they get pulled in and for breaching the penalty count.

Clubs should be fined for the number of penalties they concede, no appeal, no quibbling, the amount should be removed from their handouts and given to the team with the lowest penalty count at the end of the season.

Claiming a penalty should be a penalty against you, keep your gob shut and get on with it. Waving of arms and similar gestures should just be penalised, end of.

 

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4 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Shambolic scrums and the 10m rule dont help. Much rather see pushing in the scrums and a shorter line. RL was far better and the score margins were closer

Agree there. 10m rule turned code into teams of robots and athletes not league players 

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1 hour ago, nathanfilkins said:

2 Super League games in 2 nights where i have questioned the level of quality of our 'elite' competition.

I have been playing, coaching and watching super league my whole life and last night was the first time I have ever turned off a game from complete boredom. Hull KR and Catalans in that first half were abysmal and that game doesn't deserve to a super league game, but then again what does?

We talk about the Australian game and how we could catch up, yet Leeds (Which i would say is our best side in super league) fell apart this morning and i don't see the 2 sides putting up a fight tomorrow.

I am a Widnes fan so i'm not just having a go at the teams below us for not making the competition 'elite' enough. Tonight's game was not as bad as Thursday nights but not much better. Less handling errors but honestly ask yourselves, what team posed a threat to the opposition tonight? How many line breaks were there in that game? 2/3? I don't remember many and was that because of good defences - No.

Summary:

-Hull KR still look like a championship side

- Catalans look like an amateur side

- Australian game leaps and bounds above ours with no way of catching up

- Warrington are a shadow of their former selves (at least in my opinion as biased as it is)

- And for Widnes, i'm all for youth academies, but relying on youth week in week out is not what you do in an 'elite' league.

Maybe i'm pessimistic but I just want the league to be better, The league that's being broadcasted and labelled the 'elite' in our country is so far not up to standard. We want bigger and better marketing deals for this game and we want to propel it worldwide, maybe sort out the quality on the field too because this is the worst class of rugby teams i have known since I was born (2000 btw). 

Oh and don't get me started on the refs. I'm not one to blame the refs for defeats and i'm not going to, but the amount of times Eddie or Barry or Terry tonight questioned the decision of the Ref, for both teams mind you, was appalling.

Very much a glass half empty opinion but can’t really argue with any of it

Edited by DoubleD

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Really interesting thread. I was wondering last week if someone would start one, and am pleased (but also disappointed - as a fan) to see that some people clearly feel the same way.

I am a Warrington fan, but was astonished how abysmal they were in games 1 and 2. I thought Leeds were also garbage in the season opener. Saints looked pretty good (largely down to Barba) and Wigan as always look quite professional and competent in their execution.

However - I am really worried. Apart from the Wigan Hull game I have not yet seen a match which has lived up to the expected standards. To me, the competition is starting to look really quite 'low budget'. Some of the players are clearly below standard (defences seem incredibly passive - happy to wait for the attack to come to them), and quite frankly, the level of athlete looks quite poor in certain teams. My opinion: the UK game is really struggling to attract the type of athlete that is needed to drive the sport forward. Clearly this is down to finance. If we cannot attract more money into the sport soon, we are only going to slide further behind other sports.

Edited by Celt
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Well, this thread has cheered me up no end. Here's me watching all the RL I can find on the TV/net... I must be a mug.

Cheer up! I'm sure there'll be a cracker along soon.

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4 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

Well, this thread has cheered me up no end. Here's me watching all the RL I can find on the TV/net... I must be a mug.

Cheer up! I'm sure there'll be a cracker along soon.

Aye, i must admit, im enjoyin watching the RL.

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Give the season a chance. Last year the RL in SL was entertaining.I recall the 1997 SL World Club Challenge an embarrassment for NH RL. But guess what? It still exists and NH teams have done better lately. Last year the NH teams beat their southern counterparts but let's not let that get in the way of a good moan. I notice you're new here. I hope this isn't another troll starting up on this site. 

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22 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

Well, this thread has cheered me up no end. Here's me watching all the RL I can find on the TV/net... I must be a mug.

Cheer up! I'm sure there'll be a cracker along soon.

Early season rustiness, poor conditions - standard for modern-day RL that the season can have a slow start. I'd give it a few months before I start claiming that everything's worse than it has ever been ever.

In February/March last year, we were enjoying some more entertaining matches (and not just the ones against the NRL sides) but not every season follows the same pattern.

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3 hours ago, winnyason said:

The problem in comparison from nrl to sl now is money which means more professional services centre of excellence and so on.

as it stands at present the nrl cap now 9.4 million pretty sure correct me if I am wrong around in dollar term bit of 3 million. That’s shows now In quality of competition. 

Being a Aussie I can remember in late 90s and up to mid 2000s good quality imports came to superleague and footy really good, the money on offer was as good as nrl if not better. Trouble is for instance if a Joel moon or bill toupou or Ryan Morgan considered a top import considering there fringe nrl players that’s a problem in 2018.

superleague basically stood still since early 2000s while nrl moved forward a lot not just the cap but new stadiums being built. How to fix it and professionalism find a tv provider that will pay more who will I simply don’t know. 

The upshot is superleague still produces some world class players in graham, burgess and so on. The north of England is still fanatical for code. The angle of North America I can kind of see as long it brings income to rfl, France I don’t know there uk helping them along but development is very very slow on the field. 

Good post stating the obvious and that once Murdoch took over the game on Australia they did not care about the UK. That’s why the UK need to find new sources of revenue though teams outside the M62. The championship with London Toronto and Toulouse has three large cities that can really inject money and make the media contracts worthwhile. More players more money. Melbourne has proven that a city without a rugby league pedigree can become the very best at the sport. 

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The game and players have adapted to summer conditions. Starting the season in early February in the cold, mud & rain is not conducive to that style of rugby. Breathing cold air and running in a bog will cause greater fatigue and more errors. Give it a month. 

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3 hours ago, Random tiger said:

Good post stating the obvious and that once Murdoch took over the game on Australia they did not care about the UK. That’s why the UK need to find new sources of revenue though teams outside the M62. The championship with London Toronto and Toulouse has three large cities that can really inject money and make the media contracts worthwhile. More players more money. Melbourne has proven that a city without a rugby league pedigree can become the very best at the sport. 

I believe the north american scene can bring money into red hall and tv deals.

That said new york rugby just been announced for major league rugby with wrestling personality jbl as owner, there no doubt there trying to take a bit of thunder from new york city rugby league bid.

However new york rl putting a bid into join rfl system is like an aussie team bidding for nfl franchise. 

Not sure on france with toulouse and catalans code need to continue to support them across channel. In uk code needs to get full time team london and other non league uk areas. 

Edited by winnyason

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6 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Shambolic scrums and the 10m rule dont help. Much rather see pushing in the scrums and a shorter line. RL was far better and the score margins were closer

You make an interesting point LG.

i could write a book about the pros n cons of post 1980s RL.

The 10m rule is probably the biggest reason why a country like France can't keep within 40 points of Australia. RU progress since professionalism is in some minor way due to the complexity of the sport and the less likeliness of blowouts.

Send the RL international game back to 5m rule and we would see far less an international gap, but at the risk of less open expansive play. What do the fans want?

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28 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You make an interesting point LG.

i could write a book about the pros n cons of post 1980s RL.

The 10m rule is probably the biggest reason why a country like France can't keep within 40 points of Australia. RU progress since professionalism is in some minor way due to the complexity of the sport and the less likeliness of blowouts.

Send the RL international game back to 5m rule and we would see far less an international gap, but at the risk of less open expansive play. What do the fans want?

I wouldn’t go back to 5m but I think we do need to police PTB technique and the 10m better (as the NRL does). 

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46 minutes ago, winnyason said:

I believe the north american scene can bring money into red hall and tv deals.

That said new york rugby just been announced for major league rugby with wrestling personality jbl as owner, there no doubt there trying to take a bit of thunder from new york city rugby league bid.

However new york rl putting a bid into join rfl system is like an aussie team bidding for nfl franchise. 

Not sure on france with toulouse and catalans code need to continue to support them across channel. In uk code needs to get full time team london and other non league uk areas. 

Not the best week to be a Catalans fan but France has 80 years in rugby league so big cities like Toulouse must get the chance to grow. Need to spread some he game. Lots of first world countries close to Uk and Super League shouldn’t waste the current opportunity. 

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Rose tinted glasses again.

These players today are 100-120kg and faster, stronger and fitter than ever before.

It's crazy how people think these wirey backs of the 80's and 90's could throw it around after being hit by a 120kg forward 20 times a game.

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8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Early season rustiness, poor conditions - standard for modern-day RL that the season can have a slow start. I'd give it a few months before I start claiming that everything's worse than it has ever been ever.

In February/March last year, we were enjoying some more entertaining matches (and not just the ones against the NRL sides) but not every season follows the same pattern.

It's the same every year, we are supposedly a summer sport but we start in -2 degrees and finish in torrential rain in October

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There are a couple of issues here.

Firstly the game has evolved, not because people are desperate to make it more boring because what works has gained prominence over what looks good. This has led to a game with a greater focus on yards, field position, building pressure and less variety. I would agree that the spectacle has suffered although I think there is a large amount of nostalgia too. 

The issue of quality is tougher and I would argue that the vast majority of fans have no idea what quality is. Spectacle is confused with quality. One of the biggest issues we see continually is the number of knock ons and it can be embarrassing. 

The reason I don't think this is an issue of quality is because I spent most of my RL life watching the Championship and games weren't knockonathons then. Are we really saying that handling in SL 2018 is worse than the Championship circa 1995-2009? For this reason I think something else is happening and I've always had questions about the Rhino ball. 

Finally to come back to the OP, he states he was born in 2000 and that this is the worst crop he can remember. I can guarantee him that we've been having this exact same argument since he was about 8 years old. I think that's very telling about how subjective it all is. 

Edited by Maximus Decimus
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Also bear in mind that under the 5m rule:

1/ The ball was the slippy mitre:tongue:

2/ RL was played in winter

3/The game was almost entirely semi pro

4/ We had a lot more games

5/ Forwards had to shove in the pack and do the softening up

6/ Forwards had to do a full 80 mins

And the game was far better and more varied. Forwards had more skill and had more stamina rather than some of the guff nowadays with oversized hulks doing 10 mins and having a rest. No wonder some of the players cant catch or pass despite the ball being as sticky as fly paper

If we had the old style game now it would be even better than pre-1995 for the reasons above. I would also like RL to span winter and summer to get the full weather variance

 

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