Super League 1 & 2

[emesssea]

Theres only one sport in the US where it was argued it was two distinct leagues, and that is baseball with the American League and the National League and the pennants of each league were considered important. Thats why many baseball 'purist' objected to interleague play even though the other sports have been doing that for years, but of course people eventually excepted the word 'league' for both was a vestigial term, and them being distinct from one another had ended years ago and they were all under one umbrella: MLB.

 

No American considers the AFC and NFC to be separate competitions.

[themainbrace]

Oh no not a league of 10.  Now that Nige has gone, the whole sport is beginning to look like post-Gorbachev USSR, where the elected representatives were ineffectual and the real power was held by a few oligarchs.

We used to be able to afford a Superleague of 14 teams.  Now with the biggest television deal in our history we've gone down to 12 and now possibly to 10.  Are the likes of Rimmer and Lenagan on a mission to destroy our game?  

[The Parksider]

11 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Wait, so not only does North America have to produce players, they have to play at home? Looks to me like that's two less roster spots draining the player pool, right? Shouldn't matter where they play.

That’s not the point and you know it. TWP clearly have no interest in producing players, they merely want to use money to buy a place in SL because Argyle loves his RL and wants to own a professional side as soon as he can, and cannot get in at the NRL. Perhaps the English SL clubs should copy TWP player development and abandon their academies and farm their fringe players out to Skolars or any other Championship 1 team, as you clearly believe this is bona-fide player development.

As I understand it Ryan Burroughs is 27.  He’s hardly a kid on Dual registration, and Ngwati is a real talent that can certainly handle (as can Burroughs) the championship. Jack Walker at Leeds is 18 years old and handles SL, so the idea Ngwati has to play third tier is stupidity. TWP also ejected Rhys Jacks and Tom Dempsey so clearly they don’t much care for home grown and only want imports who can win them an SL place.

As tokenistic, and frankly pathetic as TWP’s claims of developing players are, we have the July 2016 Perez promise that NA college “super athletes” would make TWP into an SL club double quick and would fill up rosters at many an English SL club with said NA college talent. Nigh on two years on not a single super athlete is in sight. I wonder why you don’t raise this aspect of TWP “development” ? If you’re a TWP fan wanting an SL place, then come back to me when your club have done the hard work to deserve it.

11 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

North America has to produce players, they have to play for Toronto and they have to do it immediately or we should take a flamethrower to it and burn the whole thing down forthwith.

You appear to pride yourself on reasoned debate, so spiteful sarcasm does you no favours. You need to compare and contrast your club Rhinos efforts on player development with those of TWP.  Your club were pioneers of academy RL and propagated many fine home grown players. Long before the “foundations” were formally introduced, Leeds were out there in the community providing enthusiasm and opportunities for young people to get involved in the game

I have first hand family experience of the effort and investment made by the Rhinos to grow RL in Leeds. Meanwhile over in Toronto I have heard absolutely nothing this last 20+ months as regards TWP developing the game in any way at any level. They could have had a game where the kids could have come along and tried out mini-RL with the coaches, they could have sponsored the local amateurs to give the kids an “RL day” to try out the sport. Instead it appears that every match was about promoting beer swilling and not RL.

If Leeds abandoned their foundation work, their kids day, and their academy, you would be scathing, yet it’s somehow OK for TWP to not even bother to make any like efforts at all. Let’s cut the sarcasm and start with you explaining to me why, If TWP want to join Leeds in SL, they should be excused not putting in any hard work on player development this last nigh on two years?

[Kayakman]

Parky will you please stop it...do it for yourself...so bleak...always using words like "abandoned, no interest, don't much care,, pathetic, spiteful, absolutely nothing,cut the sarcasm"....like My God...look at what you are writing man!

Stop it,its not good for you....take a break...PLEASE!

May the Rugby Gods have mercy on you.

[Wholly Trinity]

8 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

1. No the NFL is one competition running two conferences (and more divisions) but it is one league. One level. One competition. What you are suggesting is two competitions running two leagues, on two levels and two competitions. 

In the NFL everybody is playing for 1 ultimate prize. In your suggestion they are playing for 2 separate ultimate prizes. That is a pretty clear pretty fundamental difference.

2. Only if it was part of a larger single competition. I have no problem with NRL and SL being two conferences of the same competition. Similarly if the practical issues could be overcome I would no problem with SL having two conferences. But league games between NRL teams and SL teams that weren't part of a competition to find the best team in a combined NRL/SL competition would be silly. 

4

Why can't SL1 & SL2 be seen as having the same ultimate prize - to win the Grand Final! - and as such the same competition?

In 2015, Leeds and Wigan were playing for that prize whilst Wakefield were playing for a different prize, i.e. survival in the top division in order to make a challenge for that ultimate prize in the future. Even though they were in the same 'competition', it was quite clear from the outset they were playing for different prizes, yet they played each other to determine those prizes.

Similarly, teams in SL2 would be playing for the ultimate prize of SL Champions, just not in that year.

I see it as a compromise & half-way house to full conferences. If we went straight to 2 equal conferences immediately, there would be too many one-sided games and not enough games between the top sides. In SL1/2 the top sides would only play the 'weaker' teams once, but importantly, those teams would get the opportunity to measure themselves against the best each year. 

The problem NH RL has is there aren't enough 'big clubs' capable of winning that 'ultimate prize', and you can't have a meaningful competition involving only those 5/6 big clubs. How do we get from where we are now to a competition, like the NRL, where there are more clubs who have a real chance of winning that prize? Which will bring more interest from sponsors and broadcasters and therefore the real solution... MONEY!

A league structure cannot do that on its own, but it has to enable and facilitate that growth.

The problem with the old closed-shop 12/14 team, licensed SL was that it was too big a risk for investors with the need for instant success in the top flight. Result: Stagnation and no top-flight growth.

I would envisage SL1/2 being a fully professional, practically closed-shop 'franchised' league. Each team would need to have an academy, reserve grade and links to a lower league and a development team.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

12 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

God no. I despair at this sport sometimes. From one gimmiky league structure to another. I hope this doesn't happen.

SL 2 will be just the Championship by another name and will probably just relegate any club who is put into SL2 as a semi- pro club.

It's not hard! Put Toronto and Tolouse into SL and have a 14 team league with top 6 play-offs.

Agree entirely.

I await Parky to tell you there isn't the money (despite the funding that goes into making the current 8s system work) nor talent (which they never will be if we keep decreasing).

[David Shepherd]

On 12/03/2018 at 9:03 PM, emesssea said:

They certainly dont matter to broadcasters and major advertisers. The reality is those teams are just there to make up the numbers in League 1. I wonder how many people in Coventry even know they have an RL team?

What a totally offensive attitude.

There are folk slogging their guts out in Coventry, Wales, Hemel etc trying to get Rugby League going.  Do you think it's reasonable to expect them to instantly attract 10,000 fans and be pushing for the Super League play offs?

I'd suggest you urgently need to get a grip on reality.