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John Drake

Ladbrokes Challenge Cup Round 4 Match Thread

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Kells v Toronto Wolfpack 
Doncaster v Newcastle Thunder 
Normanton Knights v Rochdale Hornets 
Barrow Raiders v Sheffield Eagles
Batley Bulldogs v Leigh Centurions 
Coventry Bears v Pilkington Recs 
Halifax v Oldham
Hunslet v Bradford Bulls 
North Wales Crusaders v Featherstone Rovers
Whitehaven v Dewsbury Rams
Workington Town v London Broncos
York City Knights v Swinton Lions

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4 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

 

long shot = highly unlikely.

I was merely saying that under poor conditions is the only way I could see any chance of an upset. Siddal almost took us last year in our fist game and the weather and pitch was the big leveler there.

I'm hoping that Kells have a good run out and enjoy the game immensely, if they get a try i will be cheering for them at my desk while listening to the radio because it's like you and your buddies having a go at Barcelona and scoring  goal...you can lose 500-1 but that 1 goal will mean the world to ya.

OK fair comment but please leave that totally abhorent boring game of association football for comparisons with some other pastime, it should not be even mentioned in the same breath as Rugby League.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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42 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK fair comment but please leave that totally abhorent boring game of association football for comparisons with some other pastime, it should not be even mentioned in the same breath as Rugby League.

i will try and not speak such blasphemy again HS.

What are your thoughts on the game vs Batley? Go all out for the win and a moral boost or play second string and focus on the league Toulouse style?

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On 13/03/2018 at 2:16 PM, FearNothing said:

I think barring a miracle we're out, not beaten Fev since the Celtic Crusaders days.. 

Don't be too sure.  I don't think we can even muster 17 fit players this weekend.

Hoping to get there, but the early kick off time might clash with my son's game in the morning.

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4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK fair comment but please leave that totally abhorent boring game of association football for comparisons with some other pastime, it should not be even mentioned in the same breath as Rugby League.

It never ceases to amaze me how such a poopy sport managed to become so big.  I would genuinely rather sit and watch some really sloppy paint drying on some slow growing grass.

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3 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

i will try and not speak such blasphemy again HS.

What are your thoughts on the game vs Batley? Go all out for the win and a moral boost or play second string and focus on the league Toulouse style?

Go all out for a win? If only.

I have never seen a group of men capitulate en masse so easily and so often as those in the ranks known as Leigh Centurions RLFC, I have watched and supported the team for over half a century through more thin times than thick ones, we have had teams not expected to do very well and they have not exceeded expectations but at least they tried and put the effort in for the club and the fans, this lot assembled with great expectation and euphoria just do not seem interested.

To answer your question, they need to win, they fell of the bike at the first corner and they need to remount and get some momentum going, there is enough pedigree in the team to do a complete reversal of what they have served up to present, it is a complete mystery why they should be so bad.

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20 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

It never ceases to amaze me how such a poopy sport managed to become so big.  I would genuinely rather sit and watch some really sloppy paint drying on some slow growing grass.

I would sooner do the painting David, and what a chore that is!

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Never got this argument about the field being a leveller for the apparent weaker side. If they're not as good on a good surface what makes anybody think they'll play the conditions better on a bad field. Surely the more talented players adapt better? It's not like the NCL side still play winter - then it would be an advantage, but as we play summer most of our games are played on dry hard surfaces. 

My thoughts on the 3 remaining NCL sides chances - 

Kells - will be a similar level to Siddal last year but I think TWP will be expecting that this time. TWP by 30 

Pilks - Relegated from NCL prem last year and beaten pretty comfortably in first game of the season last week. Bears by 18

Normanton - Had a great win in their opening NCL Prem game against Wath Brow but playing at a pro ground might go against them. - Hornets by 16 

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Like any sport conditions can be a leveller but is only dependent on the effect that conditions have on each team.

It depends a lot on the style of play of both teams. A team that plays expansive rugby out wide and likes to throw the ball around would struggle on a narrow muddy pitch. 

A big part of home advantage is being used to playing the conditions in your home ground (ie. Size of pitch, type of surface, weather etc.). In my view conditions are a leveller but obviously not the only factor 

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1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

Like any sport conditions can be a leveller but is only dependent on the effect that conditions have on each team.

It depends a lot on the style of play of both teams. A team that plays expansive rugby out wide and likes to throw the ball around would struggle on a narrow muddy pitch. 

A big part of home advantage is being used to playing the conditions in your home ground (ie. Size of pitch, type of surface, weather etc.). In my view conditions are a leveller but obviously not the only factor 

None of that makes it a 'leveller' - conditions are the same for both sides, so maybe it does..... but levels it the same amount for both, so does it really make a difference? Like I said before, truly talented teams find ways to adapt to the conditions. In the case of both the amateur sides here that have home ties, they've both forfeited home field advantage (as playing at local pro grounds) so there is no 'leveller' here. 

The suggestion seems to be that worse conditions benefit the 'lesser' side but I've never seen any evidence of that. If Pilks, who are away to Cov Bears, lose will the conditions on the day have played any part in it? I dare say nobody will try and suggest that but if either of the home NCL sides win (which I don't think they will) then you better believe the 'conditions' will be mentioned. We got beat by Workington in the last round - there were no issues with the pitch but it was a tight game. By some peoples reckoning we'd have won if it had been bad conditions as that would've been the 'leveller' we needed....

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2 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

The suggestion seems to be that worse conditions benefit the 'lesser' side but I've never seen any evidence of that. If Pilks, who are away to Cov Bears, lose will the conditions on the day have played any part in it? I dare say nobody will try and suggest that but if either of the home NCL sides win (which I don't think they will) then you better believe the 'conditions' will be mentioned. We got beat by Workington in the last round - there were no issues with the pitch but it was a tight game. By some peoples reckoning we'd have won if it had been bad conditions as that would've been the 'leveller' we needed....

Do you not think that bad conditions reduce the play the ball speed? And given the play the ball speed often reflects who is the stronger team, the slower PTB suits the 'lesser' team, or at least reduces difference in the ruck speed between the two teams

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Heavy conditions underfoot should benefit the fitter team as the game goes on. Players with better handling skills are less likely to drop a wet, muddy ball. A good kicker will exploit muddy patches on the field better than his opponent.

However, it probably would narrow the gap between teams of differing ability, as the better side couldn't turn on the dry weather razzle-dazzle running/passing.

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2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Heavy conditions underfoot should benefit the fitter team as the game goes on. Players with better handling skills are less likely to drop a wet, muddy ball. A good kicker will exploit muddy patches on the field better than his opponent.

However, it probably would narrow the gap between teams of differing ability, as the better side couldn't turn on the dry weather razzle-dazzle running/passing.

But don't you think some players are just better in inclement weather...like some racehorses...doesn't it measure the toughness inside, rather than refined skills?  Bad weather can affect some mentally while others enjoy it?

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6 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

But don't you think some players are just better in inclement weather...like some racehorses...doesn't it measure the toughness inside, rather than refined skills?  Bad weather can affect some mentally while others enjoy it?

On the physical side, maybe. But that would possibly also come down to fitness making a muddy arm-wrestle easier to sustain and more enjoyable for the better, fitter player.

Rugby League is a brutally vicious meritocracy. We don't have as many upsets as (Association) Football, because the rules reward ruthless pressure. You can rarely, in Rugby League, sneak an early score against a better team and then "park the bus", because of the physical aspect of our game.

If you're not as good as the other guys through the 80 minutes of a game, you will be battered, bent back, broken and eventually beaten. And then go on the internet and claim that it was the referee what won it.

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2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

On the physical side, maybe. But that would possibly also come down to fitness making a muddy arm-wrestle easier to sustain and more enjoyable for the better, fitter player.

Rugby League is a brutally vicious meritocracy. We don't have as many upsets as (Association) Football, because the rules reward ruthless pressure. You can rarely, in Rugby League, sneak an early score against a better team and then "park the bus", because of the physical aspect of our game.

If you're not as good as the other guys through the 80 minutes of a game, you will be battered, bent back, broken and eventually beaten. And then go on the internet and claim that it was the referee what won it.

You might , and probably are correct.  Funny your last sentence, since I have observed just that from my short time as a new fan.

But you must also admit physical difficulties sometimes can, and usually do, transfer themselves into mental difficulties for some, especially near the end of a game.

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5 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

You might , and probably are correct.  Funny your last sentence, since I have observed just that from my short time as a new fan.

But you must also admit physical difficulties sometimes can, and usually do, transfer themselves into mental difficulties for some, especially near the end of a game.

If you fall short of the best in the league, either physically or mentally, you probably won't be playing for a top club. At least, you won't not for long - lower leagues or an exit from the game beckons.

We can all think of players who looked really promising at times, but couldn't really maintain that high level. Leroy Rivett is a prime example. Or Jamal Idris.

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3 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

If you fall short of the best in the league, either physically or mentally, you probably won't be playing for a top club. At least, you won't not for long - lower leagues or an exit from the game beckons.

 

But what if one rises to the occasion in bad weather, this could be their one opportunity to get noticed and rise up in the ranks...bad weather means opportunity knocks!

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Travelling down from Fife for this one , hope CRU give a good Rovers side a game and people of wrexham come out in numbers.  Upsets maybe York and newcastle?

Edited by swann5
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1 hour ago, swann5 said:

Travelling down from Fife for this one , hope CRU give a good Rovers side a game and people of wrexham come out in numbers.  Upsets maybe York and newcastle?

Might be an idea to check the weather forecast before setting out - they're talking about 4 inches of snow and temperatures below freezing in Oswestry this weekend and we're not far from Wrexham (Fev supporters lurking here take note as well).

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York City FC's home game with National League North rivals Southport tomorrow has been postponed because the Bootham Crescent pitch is waterlogged. Must put a big question mark against Sunday's York-Swinton cup-tie. And the snow hasn't got here yet!

EDIT: the game has been switched to Featherstone Rovers RLFC.

Edited by Hopping Mad

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6-6 Kells score

 

Edited by Krzzystuff

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