The Daddy

Championship/League 1 clubs forfeiting Challenge Cup

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Bit of a trend this year it seems. Championship and League 1 clubs prefer to enhance their chances of promotion than have their squads battered by SL teams or even attempt to compete in a comp they have absolutely no chance of winning.

1. Newcastle Thunder coach said he would play a weakened team and prefer to lose in the cup than reveal his team's hand to Doncaster who they play the following week in league 1.

2. Toulouse asked to be omitted at the beginning of the year. 

3. Derek Beaumont has said in the Talk sport 2 interview he's not bothered about the cup and is more concerned with Leigh making the top 4. 

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It's a trend in all sports for these types of competitions. it all depends on the teams realistic ambitions, squad depth and fiances.

If a league 1 team knows that realistically they don't expect to be fighting for promotion then they will be all for making it as far as possible to get as much exposure, experience and money as they can.

If you expect to be in the promotion or relegation fight then less games = less risk of injury and you will want to avoid the "nuisance" of cup games.

If you have a big squad you can play your non starters to get the into match shape and try out some new combinations.

If you're a community team you might want to go as far as possible because you want to try yourself against the pros to put yourself in the shop window and  see if you can get a giants scalp.

Apply this to any sport and it holds true. In the end its 99.99% that a team from the top tier wins it because they are in the top tier for a reason.

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41 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

2. Toulouse asked to be omitted at the beginning of the year. 

For Toulouse I would say that it was more to stay focused on their ambitions rather than thinking that challenge cup is a waste of time: the plan is to go to SL. And its gonna take them every single energy possible and a lot of luck!! They were up for the challenge cup when they were in league one, last year they let youngsters play and lost against batley in their first match i believe. 

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Yeah, Houles put the kids out against Batley.

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I know it goes against the grain on the thread but i sure hope Toronto throws everything they have into winning the Cup....it is a beautiful trophy with great history (I've been studying).

This could be just Torontos year to win it if others are intentionally backing off, could be a great opportunity.

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No team including Toulouse should be allowed to decide not to play in the cup. Its a lack of respect for the oldest Rugby Cup Comp in the World. Toulouse should be in whether they like it or not. Its then up to them what team they put out.

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19 minutes ago, mickhornet said:

It is in the rules you have to enter the Cup .Strange Toulouse have got exemption

Which rules are these, and do they apply to clubs who aren't members of the RFL?

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Championship and C1 clubs don't make any money out of the CC, quite the opposite in fact. Even the "temptation" of playing against a big team is not really worthwhile as most SL fans don't bother turning up for these games.

The traditions of the competition are worth preserving somehow but the realities and practicalities are difficult to justify.

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1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

3. Derek Beaumont has said in the Talk sport 2 interview he's not bothered about the cup and is more concerned with Leigh making the top 4. 

No he didn't.

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Start it on boxing day as a group stage, 3 games each, then 3 knock out rounds finishing early Feb, before a small break and the final on May Day bank Holiday weekend.

Push back the start of the league season to mid/late March.

Viewing figures (for all tv)  are generally much higher during the holiday season.

Live challenge cup RL on boxing day, the day after, the in between days, on NYE an New Years Day on the BBC could become a great tradition.

Early season so more chance of shocks and gap lessened between SL and the rest,

a group stage also allows us to plan to make sure we have competitive looking games in every tv slot.

Tickets can be sold as christmas presents.

The competitive element replacing the friendlies mean sides will start the league season in top form.

Lower league clubs get games against SL clubs every year

the early finish of the challenge cup allows it to be the early season priority rather than a distraction towards the end of the year.

Playing it on consecutive weeks allows the competition to gain momentum, it currently dissipates due to the spread out nature of the competition.

Interest would have built because its the first time in months most will have played

it would be the first time fans got to see new signings/kits etc.

 

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3 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Bit of a trend this year it seems. Championship and League 1 clubs prefer to enhance their chances of promotion than have their squads battered by SL teams or even attempt to compete in a comp they have absolutely no chance of winning.

1. Newcastle Thunder coach said he would play a weakened team and prefer to lose in the cup than reveal his team's hand to Doncaster who they play the following week in league 1.

2. Toulouse asked to be omitted at the beginning of the year. 

3. Derek Beaumont has said in the Talk sport 2 interview he's not bothered about the cup and is more concerned with Leigh making the top 4. 

I don’t think Jason ever said he would play a weakened team? We value the tradition of the Challenge Cup and would love to progress 

Here is the squad 

Tee Ritson, Ben Calland, Ben Dent, Tyler Craig, Mo Agoro, Lewis Young, Danny Nicklas, Liam McAvoy, Vincent Rennie
Aaron Ollett, Evan Simons, Ryan Lloyd, 
Jack Aldous, Harry Aldous, Ben Pointer
Connor Fitzsimmons, Liam Scott
 
 

 

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1 hour ago, mickhornet said:

Should be made to play its not fair.

Thought it was invitation for non English teams?

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To be fair if you were being told that there's going to be 2 leagues of 10 and thats it for pro RL you'd put all your efforts into being in that 20 over anything else. 

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3 hours ago, Fabou said:

For Toulouse I would say that it was more to stay focused on their ambitions rather than thinking that challenge cup is a waste of time: the plan is to go to SL. And its gonna take them every single energy possible and a lot of luck!! They were up for the challenge cup when they were in league one, last year they let youngsters play and lost against batley in their first match i believe. 

I remember Toulouse getting to the semi by beating Widnes..  

Didn't get them to SL as Cats were cherry picked before them.

Once in SL one would imagine they would take it seriously.

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34 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Thought it was invitation for non English teams?

England was our mother country so I guess as one of the kids we are in then...the prodigal son returns for his just rewards.

"Run With The Pack!"

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5 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Those rules do not apply to French clubs 

The Frenchies and TWP are RFL "Guests" or something of that sort o it's optional for us. Like Kman said i hope TWP go all in and see how far we can go. 

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I think outside of Canada you guys have to pay for access to these but they basically have all the players and coaches talk about the Cup and their memories of it they all say that this is the one that everyone wanted to win since childhood. No worries about TWP not going all out top see how far we can make it, I would pick winning the Cup over SL promotion this year easily although the Cup will be a much tougher ask than promotion. For the CC you need to beat the top SL teams, for promotion its the bottom ones.

https://www.torontowolfpacktv.com/blog/2018/03/toronto-players-and-staff-challenge-cup-memories

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3 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

I would pick winning the Cup over SL promotion this year easily although the Cup will be a much tougher ask than promotion. For the CC you need to beat the top SL teams, for promotion its the bottom ones.

True, although with a decent draw you may only have to beat a couple of top teams rather than keep it up for a year so there’s always the chance for an upset.

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8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

To be fair if you were being told that there's going to be 2 leagues of 10 and thats it for pro RL you'd put all your efforts into being in that 20 over anything else. 

Exactly. Like the EPL has downgraded the FA cup to a nuisance competition for the top teams the Challenge Cup isn’t attractive enough to Championship and L1 teams for them to take their focus off promotion or relegation. Seeding the previous season’s top 8 to enter at round 5 doesn’t help either. The teams lower down the leagues have little or no chance of meeting one of the big boys. 

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Why not split the challange cup into two comps championship and SL have the championship final as a curtain raiser to the SL final that would give championship clubs more of a level playing field and fans something to look forward to as they would have more chance of getting to wembley watching there team haveing a chance of silverware and a big day out

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44 minutes ago, plug said:

Why not split the challange cup into two comps championship and SL have the championship final as a curtain raiser to the SL final that would give championship clubs more of a level playing field and fans something to look forward to as they would have more chance of getting to wembley watching there team haveing a chance of silverware and a big day out

They tried something similar to that in 1997 with the Challenge Cup Plate which saw HKR beat Hunslet in the final as a curtain raiser to the Saints v Bulls main final. It was badly received and crowds were awful so it was binned after one year.

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Now i know these cups are very European and especially British but i think having it open to everyone for the possibility of having a big upset is what makes them special. No point having more games among t teams in the same division for a separate trophy as already have a league for that no? There should be some  incentive for teams to push and try to to win the Cup. financial rewards for teams who make the semis and lost, a community shield type game between the SL winner and the CC winners? The Europa league made itself more relevant by giving teams a pathway into the UCL...how can the CC make itself more relevant to teams in today's climate where financial needs can outweigh the desire to be in the competition?

Do fans value their teams winning the Cup? Lower division fans, how satisfying would it be for you to scalp a team 2-3 divisions above you even if you don't win the Cup? do players desire to lift the trophy or are there eye's fixed on bigger prizes?

As a newbie i'm genuinely curious, i saw what the English boys said about the Cup on Wolfpack TV and it seems like for the majority of them it's still a very special competition but new crops of payers that grew up in the SL era might be missing that reverence...true?

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