shaun mc Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Town have enough problems trying to get their locals through the gate without giving them another reason not to attend Coupled with drinks promotions on a Sunday afternoon/teatime in the bars/pubs locally - "lets save the £15 going to the game, have a few pints and watch it on line" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 32 minutes ago, Derwent said: Ah that term “short term thinking”. Why is it ? What did Town have to gain by allowing streaming ? I’m also led to believe that the attitudes of those who wanted to film it was partially behind the decision. Plus the subsequent intervention of your owner apparently was less than professional. Having read his statement I can believe that. Your teams sponsors might have appreciated the wider exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Davo5 said: Your teams sponsors might have appreciated the wider exposure. That only works if the sponsors have a national presence. A " Fred's chip shop" type sponsor ( which is far and away the most common at this level) would not benefit. Of course, there is an argument that national exposure MIGHT attract future bigger sponsors Ron Banks Midlands Hurricanes and Barrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Davo5 said: Your teams sponsors might have appreciated the wider exposure. Our main “sponsor” seems to be in full agreement with the decision according to his Twitter feed ? I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Bearman said: That only works if the sponsors have a national presence. A " Fred's chip shop" type sponsor ( which is far and away the most common at this level) would not benefit. Of course, there is an argument that national exposure MIGHT attract future bigger sponsors If it was TV we were talking about then exposure might be an issue. In this case, I doubt our sponsors will lose much sleep about their names not being seen by a few hundred people huddled around computers in Bradford. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 59 minutes ago, Derwent said: Town have put a lot of time, money and effort into promoting this game this week to try and get a big crowd. Why should they jeapordise that by allowing people to watch for free who may otherwise have came along and paid ? If theTown Board could be sure that live streaming - or even later streaming - would definitely affect their home support attendance, I would go along with that. But how sure are they that it will? About 15 years ago, Bullseye and I - in our then capacities on the then - supporters’ Association - had a real ding-dong with Caisley over something very similar. He argued Sky should “black out” broadcast to subscribers living in the local area, to try and force more “armchair supporters” to actually go to home matches. The near-universal reaction locally to Caisley’s proposal was derision. It was very hard indeed to find any “armchair supporters” who said they would instead attend games if they were not on Sky. Bear in mind these were games you could watch in numerous pubs and clubs, not just sat in front of your tablet or phone or PC or whatever. Caisley was nevertheless very worried about what he saw as reduced home attendances when games were on Sky - I saw this with my own eyes in the run-up to when he stood down. My own feeling at the time was that being on Sky will have had an impact - bear in mind that Bulls then seemed to be on Sky almost every chuffing week, so the potential impact was far more serious than for a single game - but nothing like as much as he assumed. There were other factors at play. An analysis of attendance figures to me did not back up his argument. In expressing his concern at lower attendances for Sky matches, he said the same at the time as you have later said - that the club had no responsibility towards away supporters being able to watch the game without coming to the match. He was roundly decried and derided across the game for that argument, most especially as I recall by supporters of clubs with the furthest to travel? This was from the Chairman of a club whose matches were being live-streamed to the nation almost every week. I do not think our current (far far more reasonable) owner looks to have covered himself in glory with his public statement. It does suggest to me things must have gone on behind the scenes to have caused his very uncharacteristic outburst? And that there must surely be more to all this than is immediately apparent? Since I do not recall Chalmers ever having a public pop at another club before? Personally, I suspect live-streaming this one game for Town would have pretty well zero impact on the away attendance - the remaining hard core of Bradford supporters will IMO either have been going or not going anyway. And, whilst I can perhaps understand (presumed) concerns of the Town Board about potential erosion of home walk-up support (in the same way I could perhaps understand Caisley’s worries) I do suspect such concerns may well not be that justified. Just as we felt Caisley’s were not, with his “Sky blackout” argument. The best way of resolving this argument would surely be for some objective polling of attendees at the game, asking the question “would you have come today if you could have watched the game or listened to the game on Bulls live streaming”? If any such were practicable. If more than a handful said, truthfully, “no” then I guess the Town Board would be vindicated? Recognising how strapped for cash clubs in this league are, and the vital importance of walk-up supporters. But otherwise, I am not sure the current ill-will is likely to benefit anyone. In the long run, including Town? The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 56 minutes ago, JonT said: Yep....thats exactly what has happened elsewhere. I mean, it was like a ghost town at Bootham Crescent for the first game of the season. I'm not saying I agree with the Town situation but on the York game, the majority of those tickets must have been pre-sold before the announcement was made that it was being streamed? It was only cleared shortly before the fixture IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 The statement by the chairman was petulant and over the top whatever the decision , bringing in Cumbria in SL as well for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Town have hit back with their own statement http://www.townrlfc.com/news/article/54169/club-statement The Workington Town board are surprised and very disappointed to see the statement issued by the Bradford Bulls Chairman this afternoon as it is inaccurate and inflammatory. We agree that our great sport should be seen by a wider audience so have found it strange over the last couple of weeks that the Bradford club have made very little effort to promote the game, particularly on social media. Two people from the Bradford media team turned up at Derwent Park after a brief telephone discussion with a club volunteer a couple of weeks ago to scope out for filming.. However, since then, we have had no formal written request to allow filming at Derwent Park as per RFL rules. Mid this week we were in contact with Bradford and agreed that there would be no filming. We believe that live streaming for free could have an adverse effect on the attendance and that the request to stream afterwards at 6PM could have a similar effect. We do not see Bradford Bulls as a cash cow as some Bradford fans are accusing us. Our top price ticket is £15 and we allowed a discount for Bradford fans who purchased ahead of the match. We feel this is a suitable admission price for League 1 rugby. We understand our fans will pay quite a bit more at Odsal. Furthermore, to incite ‘sports fans to express their views openly’ has resulted in many offensive messages to the club on twitter and Facebook which is unnecessary and falls short of the standards we should uphold in our great game We have been genuinely surprised at the arrogance that some Bradford staff have shown us this week. We were threatened with a bill for the film crew and that Bradford would withhold money from pre match ticket sales. We will not be intimidated by any club and we will not bow to pressure because of a decision that we, as custodians of our club have made in the best interests of our club. Although some Bradford staff were unprofessional we had a frank and friendly conversation with a senior staff member on Friday who understood our decision and we finished the conversation amicably. We have kept silent until Mr Chalmers' statement this afternoon because we are a club that tries to be professional and dignified at all times. We feel we must now reply to set matters straight as it is apparent that not everyone shares those values. To be called amateurish and selfish is a slur on the many people who give time, effort and financial input to our club. We look forward to welcoming everyone from Bradford Bulls to our great club tomorrow. Workington Town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 minute ago, DavidM said: The statement by the chairman was petulant and over the top whatever the decision , bringing in Cumbria in SL as well for some reason I think it’s a Chalmers v Koukash thing, I think there’s some bad blood there. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Derwent said: If it was TV we were talking about then exposure might be an issue. In this case, I doubt our sponsors will lose much sleep about their names not being seen by a few hundred people huddled around computers in Bradford. As opposed to people “huddled around computers” in Workington? How many folk who “huddle around computers” would, realistically, instead attend the game? The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Derwent said: I think it’s a Chalmers v Koukash thing, I think there’s some bad blood there. Ah, yes. Never thought of that. Caisley redux ? The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Just now, Adeybull said: As opposed to people “huddled around computers” in Workington? How many folk who “huddle around computers” would, realistically, instead attend the game? The people who would have watched the stream in Workington would already know these local companies. Anyway, see the statement from Town above, as I said earlier in the thread there was some very arrogant and unprofessional behaviour that created an undercurrent of animosity. I understand one of the demands was that the ProperSport crew be given exclusive use of the TV gantry, and that the local business who have filmed Town’s games from there for years be told they couldn’t film. They were told to go forth and multiply. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Read towns statement for a difference in how to go about things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun mc Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Definitely a case of "we are a bigger club, we are putting money in your cash-strapped club and I'm throwing my toys out in a Beaumont-esque way if we don't get our own way" syndrome. Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Derwent said: The people who would have watched the stream in Workington would already know these local companies. Anyway, see the statement from Town above, as I said earlier in the thread there was some very arrogant and unprofessional behaviour that created an undercurrent of animosity. I understand one of the demands was that the ProperSport crew be given exclusive use of the TV gantry, and that the local business who have filmed Town’s games from there for years be told they couldn’t film. They were told to go forth and multiply. It was your “huddled around computers” wording I was referring to, since the argument about local sponsors has to be correct. Did seem you were - very uncharacteristically - getting sucked into the unpleasantness. As I said in my first post, there must be more to all this than meets the eye. Subsequent posts would indeed seem to suggest that? The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weloveyouwakefield2 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I just think it’s a shame it’s come to this, I can well understand Workington not wanting to be bullied into doing something at THEIR ground but I watched York v Bradford on Facebook and it was a great event to see on the internet. It’s another occasion where the rfl should be in charge of the game but seemingly aren’t! There are too many grey areas in organisation in our game and someone needs to grab hold of it and drag it into 2018! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, Scubby said: Town have hit back with their own statement http://www.townrlfc.com/news/article/54169/club-statement The Workington Town board are surprised and very disappointed to see the statement issued by the Bradford Bulls Chairman this afternoon as it is inaccurate and inflammatory. We agree that our great sport should be seen by a wider audience so have found it strange over the last couple of weeks that the Bradford club have made very little effort to promote the game, particularly on social media. Two people from the Bradford media team turned up at Derwent Park after a brief telephone discussion with a club volunteer a couple of weeks ago to scope out for filming.. However, since then, we have had no formal written request to allow filming at Derwent Park as per RFL rules. Mid this week we were in contact with Bradford and agreed that there would be no filming. We believe that live streaming for free could have an adverse effect on the attendance and that the request to stream afterwards at 6PM could have a similar effect. We do not see Bradford Bulls as a cash cow as some Bradford fans are accusing us. Our top price ticket is £15 and we allowed a discount for Bradford fans who purchased ahead of the match. We feel this is a suitable admission price for League 1 rugby. We understand our fans will pay quite a bit more at Odsal. Furthermore, to incite ‘sports fans to express their views openly’ has resulted in many offensive messages to the club on twitter and Facebook which is unnecessary and falls short of the standards we should uphold in our great game We have been genuinely surprised at the arrogance that some Bradford staff have shown us this week. We were threatened with a bill for the film crew and that Bradford would withhold money from pre match ticket sales. We will not be intimidated by any club and we will not bow to pressure because of a decision that we, as custodians of our club have made in the best interests of our club. Although some Bradford staff were unprofessional we had a frank and friendly conversation with a senior staff member on Friday who understood our decision and we finished the conversation amicably. We have kept silent until Mr Chalmers' statement this afternoon because we are a club that tries to be professional and dignified at all times. We feel we must now reply to set matters straight as it is apparent that not everyone shares those values. To be called amateurish and selfish is a slur on the many people who give time, effort and financial input to our club. We look forward to welcoming everyone from Bradford Bulls to our great club tomorrow. Workington Town So the real reason Chalmers is upset is because he's been left with a bill for the film crew,wonder how much that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Gledhill Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, Derwent said: The people who would have watched the stream in Workington would already know these local companies. Anyway, see the statement from Town above, as I said earlier in the thread there was some very arrogant and unprofessional behaviour that created an undercurrent of animosity. I understand one of the demands was that the ProperSport crew be given exclusive use of the TV gantry, and that the local business who have filmed Town’s games from there for years be told they couldn’t film. They were told to go forth and multiply. I'm sorry but that is simply not true Derwent. As someone who was present at the original meeting, which was held at Derwent Park. The agreement was for Proper Sports to have the far side (left) and the Workington Town cameraman to have his usual position on the right hand side of the gantry. Never at one time did anyone ask for any exclusive access to the gantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David69 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Years ago we didn't have Facebook and all this social media . People had no choice but to get in cars on buses and on foot to get to see a match. Look how attendances have fallen away now. I know it's not all social media. I know I didn't go to a concert to see it because I new someone was doing a live feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said: I'm sorry but that is simply not true Derwent. As someone who was present at the original meeting, which was held at Derwent Park. The agreement was for Proper Sports to have the far side (left) and the Workington Town cameraman to have his usual position on the right hand side of the gantry. Never at one time did anyone ask for any exclusive access to the gantry. Ok it was hearsay I apologise if not correct. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Gledhill Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Derwent said: Ok it was hearsay I apologise if not correct. No problem mate. Here's to a good game, they usually are at Derwent Park. Any Bradford fans unable to make the game, we will have Bulls Live Commentary on the usual channels from 1.45pm with special guests, including Ralph Rimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, David69 said: Years ago we didn't have Facebook and all this social media . People had no choice but to get in cars on buses and on foot to get to see a match... Not so though in a certain other code. They just got in the helicopter... (sorry, just trying to lighten it up a bit ) The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Adeybull said: Not so though in a certain other code. They just got in the helicopter... (sorry, just trying to lighten it up a bit ) You’d have been better off with how do you get your car on the bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeybull Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, DavidM said: You’d have been better off with how do you get your car on the bus Good point well made...put it down to desperation! The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts. Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two. Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true. Then do it again - some things never end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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