Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Choosing a side is popular on the thread.

The same could be done for Bloody Sunday.  The more relevant question is whether Bloody Sunday was better for the PIRA or British rule in Northern Ireland.

I think the answer to that is blindly obvious just as Amritsar was for British rule in India.

Jews in this country are getting a rough deal from the Labour Party allegedly. The sky is falling in according to some Jewish Labour MP's.

60 people shot dead out of hand in Gaza yesterday. Hundreds wounded in a country with a very basic medical system.

Any word from those Jewish Labour MP's ? Not a peep as far as I can see.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Jews in this country are getting a rough deal from the Labour Party allegedly. The sky is falling in according to some Jewish Labour MP's.

60 people shot dead out of hand in Gaza yesterday. Hundreds wounded in a country with a very basic medical system.

Any word from those Jewish Labour MP's ? Not a peep as far as I can see.

What’s going on in this country has zip all to do with Israel and the events taking place in Gaza. Why should British MPs have to bring up events in a foreign country? They may share the same religion but it doesn’t make them all the same. It’s like saying Catholic MPs should kick up a fuss about the Lord’s Resistance Army action’s in the DRC and wider area currently.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think the answer to that is blindly obvious just as Amritsar was for British rule in India.

Oh I see, " A far away country of which we know very little ". 

 

Why are are we bothered about North Korea then ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Oh I see, " A far away country of which we know very little ". 

 

Why are are we bothered about North Korea then ?

Nope - it’s  just not important to some people just like Muslims blowing up Christians in Indonesia didn’t get condemned by MPs or racial incidents in the US. The world isn’t one big group of people caring about every issue, no matter how barbaric. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Nope - it’s  just not important to some people just like Muslims blowing up Christians in Indonesia didn’t get condemned by MPs or racial incidents in the US. The world isn’t one big group of people caring about every issue, no matter how barbaric. 

That particular nastiness has hardly been mentioned in the media much less by MPs.  Two families blowing themselves up in churches.  Sickening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting breakdown of world opinion:

  • White House spokesman Raj Shah said: "The responsibility for these tragic deaths rests squarely with Hamas... Hamas is intentionally and cynically provoking this response"
  • Kuwait drafted a UN Security Council statement calling for an independent inquiry into the violence - and expressing "outrage and sorrow" - but this was blocked by the US
  • The UK said "the large volume of live fire is extremely concerning" but called on protesters to act peacefully
  • Germany said Israel had the right to defend itself but should do so proportionately 
  • France's President Emmanuel Macron condemned violence by the Israeli military 
  • Russia said it was watching closely, adding that the Palestinian death toll "cannot but provoke the deepest concern"
  • Turkey said the US shared responsibility with Israel for a "vile massacre" and that it was recalling its ambassadors from both countries
  • South Africa also recalled its ambassador to Israel, condemning "the indiscriminate and grave manner of the latest Israeli attack"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Saintslass said:

That is exactly what they said they did though - picked off the really bad guys. 

The Israelis said guns were used by the protestors/Hamas (whichever was the case) as well as incendiaries and other general missiles.  The Israelis also used tear gas from drones.  I saw that on TV just now.  An Israeli chap on TV just now also made the valid point that there were thousands of these protestors, shouting about killing Jewish children once they had stormed the fence.  Seeing a mass like that, all intent on storming your border shooting guns and throwing incendiaries when there are families living 'a couple of football pitches away' (to quote the Israeli chap on TV just now) is not a protest you control with a polite request.  

The only children you ever see dead is Palestinian children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacksy said:

The only children you ever see dead is Palestinian children.

And until they love their children more than they hate Jews, then this is exactly how it will stay.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The editor of the Jewish Chronicle, the phenomenally pro-Isreal Stephen Pollard, condemned the killings. As did a fair few others who normally give Israel an easier ride.

Nothing justifies killing 60 and wounding 2,000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Nothing justifies killing 60 and wounding 2,000.

I agree entirely.

And nothing justifies knowingly encouraging others to put themselves into a position whereby they could be killed simply in order to generate propaganda.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about this for a proposal? Whenever something is going to happen like the US embassy thing, why don't Hamas discourage or even ban their people from protesting or throwing explosives at an army not exactly known for their patience? Hama's can be very persuasive when they want so why not save their people (who they really care about) from being shot?

Too idealistic? Ridiculous?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jacksy said:

The only children you ever see dead is Palestinian children.

What loving parent would encourage their children to join such an action?  Or take them along (in the case of a baby who allegedly died from breathing difficulties after breathing in tear gas - a proportionate response to those protesters who were unarmed but threatening the border)?

We cannot hold Israel responsible for children.  The responsibility for children lies with parents.

Edited by Saintslass
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

What’s going on in this country has zip all to do with Israel and the events taking place in Gaza. Why should British MPs have to bring up events in a foreign country? They may share the same religion but it doesn’t make them all the same. It’s like saying Catholic MPs should kick up a fuss about the Lord’s Resistance Army action’s in the DRC and wider area currently.

I am not sure I agree with that. Some of the MPs referred to are quite publicly Labour Friends of Israel. Criticism of Israel by those on the Left  is now often described as being “anti-Semitic” by some. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I agree entirely.

And nothing justifies knowingly encouraging others to put themselves into a position whereby they could be killed simply in order to generate propaganda.

Which is the point Stephen Pollard made. But Hamas, evil though they are, didn't kill anyone yesterday; the Israeli state did. And the sheer scale of the wounded shows you how much they cared about who they were hitting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

How about this for a proposal? Whenever something is going to happen like the US embassy thing, why don't Hamas discourage or even ban their people from protesting or throwing explosives at an army not exactly known for their patience? Hama's can be very persuasive when they want so why not save their people (who they really care about) from being shot?

Too idealistic? Ridiculous?

Hamas are awful. No argument.

They aren't to blame for the gunning down of thousands of unarmed people though. Israel could and should have done better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Which is the point Stephen Pollard made. But Hamas, evil though they are, didn't kill anyone yesterday; the Israeli state did. And the sheer scale of the wounded shows you how much they cared about who they were hitting.

 

But if the Israeli Defence Forces hadn't been defending the border and the demonstrators had broken through it, do you think any Israelis living near the border would have survived their incursion?

We'll never know for sure, but I rather doubt it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

And until they love their children more than they hate Jews, then this is exactly how it will stay.

They are always killing kids..doesn't matter if its during protests or on one of their mowing the lawn campaigns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

But if the Israeli Defence Forces hadn't been defending the border and the demonstrators had broken through it, do you think any Israelis living near the border would have survived their incursion?

We'll never know for sure, but I rather doubt it.

We both know that certain factions in Israel and Gaza got exactly what they wanted yesterday. But if you're trying to sell me the idea that the most technologically advanced country in the Middle East capable of building and maintaining settlements that rub right up against Palestinian communities, all whilst controlling every aspect of life in the territories when it feels like it, could only erect a flimsy picket fence and then defend it with bullets … then I'm afraid I'm not buyng it.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We both know that certain factions in Israel and Gaza got exactly what they wanted yesterday. But if you're trying to sell me the idea that the most technologically advanced country in the Middle East capable of building and maintaining settlements that rub right up against Palestinian communities, all whilst controlling every aspect of life in the territories when it feels like it, could only erect a flimsy picket fence and then defend it with bullets … then I'm afraid I'm not buyng it.

That's fine and you don't have to.

But in that case how would you defend a border that has a clearly hostile people at the other side of it without shooting at those people if they try to destroy the fence and cross into Israel?

Bear in mind that the existing fence was put there in order to try to prevent suicide bombers getting into Israel.

If you have a solution I would be glad to hear it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, jacksy said:

They are always killing kids..doesn't matter if its during protests or on one of their mowing the lawn campaigns.

I don't know enough about your claim to argue against it. What I do know is that I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near a situation where they are in confrontation with a military machine like the Israeli army.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I don't know enough about your claim to argue against it. What I do know is that I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near a situation where they are in confrontation with a military machine like the Israeli army.

Sometimes we are not always sure where our kids are at certain moments.

Sometimes our kids tell us where they are going but don't go there.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I don't know enough about your claim to argue against it. What I do know is that I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near a situation where they are in confrontation with a military machine like the Israeli army.

They are surrounded and enclosed pretty difficult to keep your kids safe. They could let them play on the beach..should be nice and safe there. 

 

Edited by jacksy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Israeli army would not be shooting anyone if these 'protests' didn't happen. It's almost as if their leaders don't really want peace or prosperity for their people and are happy to use them as cannon fodder in order to maintain the situation.

Sadly, this situation will not change in our lifetime, if ever.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Sometimes we are not always sure where our kids are at certain moments.

Sometimes our kids tell us where they are going but don't go there.

We aren't talking about nipping off to the disco instead of studying. We are talking about a war zone. Kids *can* be kept out of the front line and away from the bullets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

If you have a solution I would be glad to hear it.

To the wider issues, I have no solution. No one does.

To the specifics of yesterday? It would probably involve genuine dialogue and buffer zones rather than flimsy fences, bullets, and Hamas being cruel. But that may be the sunshine talking because it hasn't happened yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.