26 May: SL: Catalans Dragons v Leeds Rhinos KO 5pm (UK Time) (TV)

[Rupert Prince]

12 hours ago, John Rhino said:

You lucky man. We have combined it with a trip/or stay in Carcassonne. Love it over there, food, wine, history and really nice people 

Carcassonne is a great place, sadly it's donkeys years since I've been. Was on the Canal de Midi. Drank far too much wine in a bar in Bezier once. A bit like Top Lock!

[Southerner80]

15 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes... They have been heading for this for a while. They could be in trouble. However their injury run is playing its part. But this is happening with a few teams and Wigan had it for 2 seasons in a row. Wigan were rubbish this weekend (fair doo's to KR) but they were ruined by changes up the spine of their team. Look at Cas and their problems at half back. What's wrong with injuries at moment? 

but on topic... Leeds are in a bind.

Surely Eastmond is worth a look for Leeds on a 6 month deal? 

[rhinos78]

Leeds problems start with the coach.

I dont expect us to win every game or compete for every trophy. But i expect us to look like a professional rugby league team, who actually train together through the week. Sick of hearing about injuries, cas had more important players than us missing last week but played to there clear game plan and beat us comfortably. Huddersfield played prcticaly an academy team against us over easter, a much weaker team than any we'v put out this season, they played to a gameplan which enabled them to be competitive and got a draw.

Most coaches in superleague would love to field a team containing Ryan Hall, Tom Briscoe, Jack Walker, Richie Myler, Adam Cuthbertson, Stevie Ward, Brett Delaney, Brad Dwyer and Brett Ferres...All International or good quality superleague players in there careers, or have the likes of Mikolaj Oledzki and Cam Smith, two of the best young talents in the country to call on when needed. Listening to Mcdermott you'd think he was having to field an under 14's team who'd never seen a rugby ball before and its streaming down to the players, stevie ward said he was proud of the team last night!!! Absolute rubbish, a team containing the players listed should be ashamed of that performance last night, Catalan took there foot off the pedal for 15 mins otherwise it would of been a cricket score, soon as we got near them they upped there game again and blew us away.

This is when a good coach should be earning his money, he shouldnt need all his superstars available to be competitive, a good gameplan with a bit of structure can enable players to succeed, even if they're not at the talent of the players theyr replacing. Our throw the ball about and hope for the best approach isnt giving these lads a chance, they look lost and clueless. On defence, he must be the only coach in the world who hasnt got some kind of handle on how to slow the oppositions play the ball down, the speed teams play it against us is ridiculous.

I know we'v won trophies under him but we'v also played some of the most dreadful rugby i can remember under him.

[DavidM]

I watched that obstruction try a few times and still can’t see it . Just totally bemusing folk , and even the comms , with all this . I think the refs boss really needs to come out and get with the coaches to sort this and simplify it . Really ridiculous forensic robotic interpretations without any common sense at all and it’s got out of hand . You just know now every time 

[The Daddy]

46 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Leeds problems start with the coach.

I dont expect us to win every game or compete for every trophy. But i expect us to look like a professional rugby league team, who actually train together through the week. Sick of hearing about injuries, cas had more important players than us missing last week but played to there clear game plan and beat us comfortably. Huddersfield played prcticaly an academy team against us over easter, a much weaker team than any we'v put out this season, they played to a gameplan which enabled them to be competitive and got a draw.

Most coaches in superleague would love to field a team containing Ryan Hall, Tom Briscoe, Jack Walker, Richie Myler, Adam Cuthbertson, Stevie Ward, Brett Delaney, Brad Dwyer and Brett Ferres...All International or good quality superleague players in there careers, or have the likes of Mikolaj Oledzki and Cam Smith, two of the best young talents in the country to call on when needed. Listening to Mcdermott you'd think he was having to field an under 14's team who'd never seen a rugby ball before and its streaming down to the players, stevie ward said he was proud of the team last night!!! Absolute rubbish, a team containing the players listed should be ashamed of that performance last night, Catalan took there foot off the pedal for 15 mins otherwise it would of been a cricket score, soon as we got near them they upped there game again and blew us away.

This is when a good coach should be earning his money, he shouldnt need all his superstars available to be competitive, a good gameplan with a bit of structure can enable players to succeed, even if they're not at the talent of the players theyr replacing. Our throw the ball about and hope for the best approach isnt giving these lads a chance, they look lost and clueless. On defence, he must be the only coach in the world who hasnt got some kind of handle on how to slow the oppositions play the ball down, the speed teams play it against us is ridiculous.

I know we'v won trophies under him but we'v also played some of the most dreadful rugby i can remember under him.

Really? Look what he's achieved for the club. It's just normal that a club that loses a number of its pivotal figures experience turbulence in performance and results. 

[East of the Moon]

Fans can be unreasonable and far too demanding, not able to handle the ebb and flow that clubs/teams sometimes have to go through...coaches are supposed to be surgeons, able to fix an injury situation or a magician to produce a rabbit out of a hat.

[meast]

51 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Leeds problems start with the coach.

I dont expect us to win every game or compete for every trophy. But i expect us to look like a professional rugby league team, who actually train together through the week. Sick of hearing about injuries, cas had more important players than us missing last week but played to there clear game plan and beat us comfortably. Huddersfield played prcticaly an academy team against us over easter, a much weaker team than any we'v put out this season, they played to a gameplan which enabled them to be competitive and got a draw.

Most coaches in superleague would love to field a team containing Ryan Hall, Tom Briscoe, Jack Walker, Richie Myler, Adam Cuthbertson, Stevie Ward, Brett Delaney, Brad Dwyer and Brett Ferres...All International or good quality superleague players in there careers, or have the likes of Mikolaj Oledzki and Cam Smith, two of the best young talents in the country to call on when needed. Listening to Mcdermott you'd think he was having to field an under 14's team who'd never seen a rugby ball before and its streaming down to the players, stevie ward said he was proud of the team last night!!! Absolute rubbish, a team containing the players listed should be ashamed of that performance last night, Catalan took there foot off the pedal for 15 mins otherwise it would of been a cricket score, soon as we got near them they upped there game again and blew us away.

This is when a good coach should be earning his money, he shouldnt need all his superstars available to be competitive, a good gameplan with a bit of structure can enable players to succeed, even if they're not at the talent of the players theyr replacing. Our throw the ball about and hope for the best approach isnt giving these lads a chance, they look lost and clueless. On defence, he must be the only coach in the world who hasnt got some kind of handle on how to slow the oppositions play the ball down, the speed teams play it against us is ridiculous.

I know we'v won trophies under him but we'v also played some of the most dreadful rugby i can remember under him.

Well said, i always have a smile when i read that the so called top teams are "depleted" "injury ravaged" etc, then you see their team and they have something like 7 internationals in, another 3 or 4 who have had plenty of top flight experience, and maybe 1 or 2 rookies!, the "depleted" teams Leeds put out would, on paper, at least be good enough to compete at the top end of SL, yet other teams like ourselves, Widnes ,Salford really are depleted.

For reference, these players played at least once over the easter period, most of them backed up with games at Catalans, Cas at home and Saints away, 2 places you really don't want to go with a proper depleted squad.

Darnell McIntosh, 3rd game of the season, hadn't played since round 2 in February

Jared Simpson, first game of the season, only made 1 appearance last year, spent most of his time on loan at Oldham and Newcastle thunder.

Louis Senior, aged 17, first ever senior start, had only played 3 times for the academy this season!

Innes Senior, same as his twin, first start and hardly featured for the academy team.

Michael Lawrence, only his 3rd game of the season, and 2nd since opening weekend.

Sam Hewitt, academy prospect, drafted in for his only appearance.

Shannon Wakeman, recalled from a loan spell at Dewsbury to make his first appearance of the season.

Matty English, Like Wakeman, recalled from a loan spell at Dewsbury,only 2 previous first team appearances prior to that.

Colton Roche ,first game of the season, recalled from a loan spell at York, only his 3rd appearance all season.

That's what an injury crisis looks like, not having the luxury of replacing a good,experienced player with a good, experienced player

 

not to mention the weekly disruptions to our 1,6,7,9,13 spine, different 3/4 line every week, we had used 9 different HB pairings in our first 10 games and 7 full back changes, it's no wonder we struggled!

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes... They have been heading for this for a while. They could be in trouble. However their injury run is playing its part. But this is happening with a few teams and Wigan had it for 2 seasons in a row. Wigan were rubbish this weekend (fair doo's to KR) but they were ruined by changes up the spine of their team. Look at Cas and their problems at half back. What's wrong with injuries at moment? 

 

Too many games, so players are not recovering and just getting patched up 

[rhinos78]

1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

Really? Look what he's achieved for the club. It's just normal that a club that loses a number of its pivotal figures experience turbulence in performance and results. 

Yeah really. I know what he's won for the club, i also know that he's had the luxury of a very well run club, thats kept all its star players while other clubs have lost theres left right and center. He's had some of the most talented squads in the league, some of the very few worldclass players in superleague, 5 or 6 legends of superleague and some of the most inspirational leaders of the superleague era to call on.

When all the chips are falling right, he hasnt messed it up, but when everything isnt in his favour, he's not a good enough coach to make up the difference. Graham Murray didnt win close to what mcdermott has, but he was a million miles better coach imo. Its normal that injuries or losing pivotal figures affect a teams performance to an extent, its not normal that a team look like theyv never met each other, theres absolutely no structure or gameplan whatsoever in our play, nobodys got a clue what they're meant to be doing. Leeds injuries are highlighted and mentioned more than any other team, its because we look absolutely clueless without our superstars making somthing out of nothing.

 

[rhinos78]

57 minutes ago, East of the Moon said:

Fans can be unreasonable and far too demanding, not able to handle the ebb and flow that clubs/teams sometimes have to go through...coaches are supposed to be surgeons, able to fix an injury situation or a magician to produce a rabbit out of a hat.

A set play now and again or some semblance of a gameplan would be acceptable. Some fans see trophies and think alls rosie.

[MZH]

7 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Too many games, so players are not recovering and just getting patched up 

Partly that. Partly bad luck. Hull may have three players done for the season with bad knee injuries (Bowden is ruled out already, Sneyd and Griffin will hopefully play some part yet, but we aren't sure). Then there is Abdull breaking his leg in a couple of places. That isn't wear and tear, that's just unlucky.

[M j M]

Lots of Leeds fans love bagging McDermott and claiming his many accomplishments are the result of the work of others. Despite lots and lots of evidence to the contrary and the testimonies of many senior players.

It will come right as it always does. Poor runs of form happen but if there is a beef it's with the players who have grown far too lazy this past decade through the regular season. I know trophies are won August-October time but it would be nice to go through a season without a crisis of one sort or another. I can only think of 2015 in the last 10 years where we haven't had some on-field disaster or other.

[Tommygilf]

36 minutes ago, M j M said:

Lots of Leeds fans love bagging McDermott and claiming his many accomplishments are the result of the work of others. Despite lots and lots of evidence to the contrary and the testimonies of many senior players.

It will come right as it always does. Poor runs of form happen but if there is a beef it's with the players who have grown far too lazy this past decade through the regular season. I know trophies are won August-October time but it would be nice to go through a season without a crisis of one sort or another. I can only think of 2015 in the last 10 years where we haven't had some on-field disaster or other.

That's true and normally I'd be the first to agree. I just think its a shame that we're stuck here really. We've never been a club to put our hands in our pockets (at least under Hetherington we haven't) yet surely something has to give - in my mind I have no doubt it was the introduction of Segeyaro in 2016 that turned our entire season around for example. We've been unfortunate with injuries but we never replaced Galloway either.

The Catalans game showed a few things. Stevie Ward had one of his worst games in a Leeds shirt. Brett Ferres is half the player he was when he came from Huddersfield. Lilley should be given more of a chance. Oledzki is clearly a raw talent but naturally can't be starting every week. Myler continues to have a good season individually even if the team is stuck in a rut. Cuthbertson is clearly carrying an injury. Dwyer looks like he could be very good. Handley is still unconvincing as a centre for me.

One thing that really did stick out for me is how senior players particularly looked dumb in defence. In this match it was Stevie Ward and Ferres, but usually its Ablett consistently shooting out of the defensive line from 4 or 5 men out of the ruck. Even at junior levels we're taught to advance as a defence from the ruck outwards so why these players do it so often and are allowed to by the coach bemuses me. Perhaps a defensive coach is what we need at Leeds.

Maybe its a sign of a deeper cultural problem at the club where McDermott has his favourites and some player's faces just don't fit, McShane, Keinhorst etc. Players like Ferres seem to regress too which is equally worrying. I don't know personally but it doesn't fill me with hope for the future compared to how other clubs are ran on the field and play. Having said all that we'll almost certainly be in a Cup or Super League final in the next two years and all will be forgotten till the next dip in form.

[Ant]

10 hours ago, meast said:

Well said, i always have a smile when i read that the so called top teams are "depleted" "injury ravaged" etc, then you see their team and they have something like 7 internationals in, another 3 or 4 who have had plenty of top flight experience, and maybe 1 or 2 rookies!, the "depleted" teams Leeds put out would, on paper, at least be good enough to compete at the top end of SL, yet other teams like ourselves, Widnes ,Salford really are depleted.

For reference, these players played at least once over the easter period, most of them backed up with games at Catalans, Cas at home and Saints away, 2 places you really don't want to go with a proper depleted squad.

Darnell McIntosh, 3rd game of the season, hadn't played since round 2 in February

Jared Simpson, first game of the season, only made 1 appearance last year, spent most of his time on loan at Oldham and Newcastle thunder.

Louis Senior, aged 17, first ever senior start, had only played 3 times for the academy this season!

Innes Senior, same as his twin, first start and hardly featured for the academy team.

Michael Lawrence, only his 3rd game of the season, and 2nd since opening weekend.

Sam Hewitt, academy prospect, drafted in for his only appearance.

Shannon Wakeman, recalled from a loan spell at Dewsbury to make his first appearance of the season.

Matty English, Like Wakeman, recalled from a loan spell at Dewsbury,only 2 previous first team appearances prior to that.

Colton Roche ,first game of the season, recalled from a loan spell at York, only his 3rd appearance all season.

That's what an injury crisis looks like, not having the luxury of replacing a good,experienced player with a good, experienced player

 

not to mention the weekly disruptions to our 1,6,7,9,13 spine, different 3/4 line every week, we had used 9 different HB pairings in our first 10 games and 7 full back changes, it's no wonder we struggled!

100% this

 

Not that you'd know a single aspect of this reading some RL media outlets.

[MZH]

17 minutes ago, Ant said:

100% this

 

Not that you'd know a single aspect of this reading some RL media outlets.

Tbh, I knew you had a couple of key players missing such as McGillvray and Brough, but I didn't realise the extent of the problems until you were on tv against Catalans (was it Easter Monday or the following week?). A bit like Hull KR it has been almost ignored in some quarters. 

We (Hull) are doing it tough at the minute. 8 of our first choice 17 were missing the other night, not including Abdull. All of our first choice 2-7 were missing. Debuts to teenagers, players out of position, players out of retirement, but we have a strong enough squad that we should remain competetive. I don't expect us to be beating the top sides in that situation and will cut the team some slack, but I don't want to hear the club banging on about it and using it as an excuse. You can't ever look for excuses if you want to succeed. If guys like Stevie Ward are saying with sincerity that they are proud of the effort after getting thumped by Catalans then it's a hell of a low bar they are setting. The bench was pretty weak, but the starting 13 wasn't bad at all. 

[terrywebbisgod]

Is this some sort of "our injury crisis is worse than yours" contest?

[MZH]

20 minutes ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Is this some sort of "our injury crisis is worse than yours" contest?

Yes.

[terrywebbisgod]

It's become a parody of the Monty Python Yorkshire men sketch.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The Catalans game showed a few things. Stevie Ward had one of his worst games in a Leeds shirt. Brett Ferres is half the player he was when he came from Huddersfield. Lilley should be given more of a chance. Oledzki is clearly a raw talent but naturally can't be starting every week. Cuthbertson is clearly carrying an injury. Handley is still unconvincing as a centre for me.

Just about sums it up for me too although I would say Cuthbertson has been Dire for quite some time so it must be some injury.

[M j M]

The biggest problem is a lack of props. You can cite injury lists as long as you like but if you only have two props left, one of whom is a kid playing well but playing far too much and the other rushed back and not over his previous injury you're going to struggle. That's where Leeds are at present. Its compounded by the latter player, Cuthbertson, being too knackered to do much of the creative work which forms a big part of Leeds' offence.

[bromleybulldog]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

 

The Catalans game showed a few things. Stevie Ward had one of his worst games in a Leeds shirt. Brett Ferres is half the player he was when he came from Huddersfield. Lilley should be given more of a chance. Oledzki is clearly a raw talent but naturally can't be starting every week.

Think Ferres  is unfortunately TWICE the player he was when he came from Huddersfield. Too many pies.

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, bromleybulldog said:

Think Ferres  is unfortunately TWICE the player he was when he came from Huddersfield. Too many pies.

Well thats the thing, how did Leeds make him worse??? 

[terrywebbisgod]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

The biggest problem is a lack of props. You can cite injury lists as long as you like but if you only have two props left, one of whom is a kid playing well but playing far too much and the other rushed back and not over his previous injury you're going to struggle. That's where Leeds are at present. Its compounded by the latter player, Cuthbertson, being too knackered to do much of the creative work which forms a big part of Leeds' offence.

The scary thing is that Leeds had 17 year old prop Tom Holroyd as 18th man against Catalans.He'd just played for the u19’s against the Dragons 19's.Heaven knows what would have happened if a first team player got injured in the warm up.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

The biggest problem is a lack of props. You can cite injury lists as long as you like but if you only have two props left, one of whom is a kid playing well but playing far too much and the other rushed back and not over his previous injury you're going to struggle. That's where Leeds are at present. Its compounded by the latter player, Cuthbertson, being too knackered to do much of the creative work which forms a big part of Leeds' offence.

IMO that’s more on the money than any post here.  If the forwards can’t bend the line and gain ground you’re done.  Prime examples in Wire v Hull, in that Hull had Green and Peia firing first half, but no real back up.  Just ran out of steam and Wire dominated.

With a couple of powerful front rowers, Cuthbertson is a threat with the ball but with lads to make the metres, he’s struggling.

[meast]

13 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

 Brett Ferres is half the player he was when he came from Huddersfield.

I'd say he was DOUBLE the player he was at Huddersfield!