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When new TV deal comes round , should we again be looking to have one or may be two  London teams in Super league ? I feel we need a strong London if we are to market our game world wide. There's a few London players coming through now , but at the moment the London clubs can't keep there best players from heading north. I feel if we rebranded both London clubs to become London Roos and London Kiwis and say roughly have squads half and half . So Kiwis squad would be 50% British players and 50% New Zealand players. Like wish the Roos would be 50% British players and 50% Australian players. Could having these two team improve our possibility of better TV deals down under ? . Also a London derby on the calendar has to be great press for RL in general . Would be great game for magic weekend especially if the weekend was in London .  Stadium wise I'm not sure where both teams could play , but a few doubleheader could help full grounds. Plus better fixture arrangements , lets face it if we can arrange for Toronto to play all there away games first the all the home games surely we could sort something for London clubs.   I know plenty of people will be against these ideas but I do feel for us to grow as a sport in UK we need London .       

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26 minutes ago, superten said:

When new TV deal comes round , should we again be looking to have one or may be two  London teams in Super league ? I feel we need a strong London if we are to market our game world wide. There's a few London players coming through now , but at the moment the London clubs can't keep there best players from heading north. I feel if we rebranded both London clubs to become London Roos and London Kiwis and say roughly have squads half and half . So Kiwis squad would be 50% British players and 50% New Zealand players. Like wish the Roos would be 50% British players and 50% Australian players. Could having these two team improve our possibility of better TV deals down under ? . Also a London derby on the calendar has to be great press for RL in general . Would be great game for magic weekend especially if the weekend was in London .  Stadium wise I'm not sure where both teams could play , but a few doubleheader could help full grounds. Plus better fixture arrangements , lets face it if we can arrange for Toronto to play all there away games first the all the home games surely we could sort something for London clubs.   I know plenty of people will be against these ideas but I do feel for us to grow as a sport in UK we need London .       

I am all for a London conquest. but your proposal is a risky bet with a quite big Money on it. and even with large fundings, it looks far from easy.

I dont say it is a bad idea, I like the reflection behind it.

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I would love to see 2 London clubs in superleague at some point in the future, but to suggest just creating 2 London clubs out of nowhere which can only sign players from 1 country other than England is definitely not the way to do it.

If you want London to be able to keep their best players then you need to make them a club capable of challenging for titles and cups. Dividing those resources and then limiting who else can play for them would result in more players leaving and not bein able to attract the best of the rest. 

I don't know the solution to making London successful but development officers, a top class team with the odd big name star and a proper 'home' are surely better options than a second manufactured and hamstrung club.

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I'm all for a strong London too but I can't see this being different to any other time we've suddenly decided we need a team from X Y or Z in the super league, we need to support a more sustainable growth in London. I think the "Roos" and "Kiwis" branding could appeal to a large group of antipodean  expats but i'm not sure how you could police the 50/50 thing. What if the Roos had a chance to sign a good New Zealand international? What if the Kiwis develop lots of London talant, do they still have to find New Zealanders to play instead?

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Where would the support come from? A London Broncos team motoring along in second place in the Championship got 771 people watching them last weekend - and I post that as a supporter! 

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1 hour ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Where would the support come from? A London Broncos team motoring along in second place in the Championship got 771 people watching them last weekend - and I post that as a supporter! 

This is sad but true.... Even in their hey day at Charlton correct me if I'm wrong the season average was not over 4,000 a game. 

RL in London has it tough. Being near the antipodean areas does sound a good idea though,  wonder if the crowds will turn out? 

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Wherever we've played, after the initial enthusiasm's worn off gates decline to between 2.5 and 3k. I do wish people would stop going on about the antipodean community  - due to the decline in sterling it's now much smaller than it was, plus it mirrors the demographics of the country with a fair proportion coming from non RL playing states (plus most of those that do would cross the road to avoid watching the British game which they consider inferior to the one back home).

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1 hour ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Wherever we've played, after the initial enthusiasm's worn off gates decline to between 2.5 and 3k. I do wish people would stop going on about the antipodean community  - due to the decline in sterling it's now much smaller than it was, plus it mirrors the demographics of the country with a fair proportion coming from non RL playing states (plus most of those that do would cross the road to avoid watching the British game which they consider inferior to the one back home).

I live in West London and as you say there are a lot less Aussies and Kiwis round Shepherds Bush and Earls Court than there were ten years ago. I don t know where the support for one club would come from never mind two! 

 

I d go if there were a majority of British players at a Superleague club.

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7 hours ago, superten said:

When new TV deal comes round , should we again be looking to have one or may be two  London teams in Super league ? I feel we need a strong London if we are to market our game world wide. There's a few London players coming through now , but at the moment the London clubs can't keep there best players from heading north. I feel if we rebranded both London clubs to become London Roos and London Kiwis and say roughly have squads half and half . So Kiwis squad would be 50% British players and 50% New Zealand players. Like wish the Roos would be 50% British players and 50% Australian players. Could having these two team improve our possibility of better TV deals down under ? . Also a London derby on the calendar has to be great press for RL in general . Would be great game for magic weekend especially if the weekend was in London .  Stadium wise I'm not sure where both teams could play , but a few doubleheader could help full grounds. Plus better fixture arrangements , lets face it if we can arrange for Toronto to play all there away games first the all the home games surely we could sort something for London clubs.   I know plenty of people will be against these ideas but I do feel for us to grow as a sport in UK we need London .       

Lol. Did you see that pig

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We have been down the route of stuffing the team with kiwis and aussies before and didnt do much good

I dont mind a team in London and a presence there should benefit the game. Just think with all the other attractions and events down there you are always up against it with 1 team and 2 wont help

In this day of regional teams a better option would be to have a Southern nomads team playing in London but also the likes of Coventry, Bristol, Exeter,  etc. The distances are not large and if was in SL then taking  odd big games to big cities as "one offs" each year would attract more punters overall

Would help with expansion and getting SL clubs visiting a possible development area when a game is in town is much better than trying to promote the game by playing a L1 team

The days of basing a team solely in one town are over. RU now has regional teams at the top level and so do many other leagues.   

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10 hours ago, headtackle said:

We have been down the route of stuffing the team with kiwis and aussies before and didnt do much good

I dont mind a team in London and a presence there should benefit the game. Just think with all the other attractions and events down there you are always up against it with 1 team and 2 wont help

In this day of regional teams a better option would be to have a Southern nomads team playing in London but also the likes of Coventry, Bristol, Exeter,  etc. The distances are not large and if was in SL then taking  odd big games to big cities as "one offs" each year would attract more punters overall

Would help with expansion and getting SL clubs visiting a possible development area when a game is in town is much better than trying to promote the game by playing a L1 team

The days of basing a team solely in one town are over. RU now has regional teams at the top level and so do many other leagues.   

Where did that one come from??

Distances are not large? it can take 2 hours to cross London let alone get out to Coventry, Bristol and Exeter! Part of the issue with London is exactly that, if you try to appeal to the whole of London you are asking some fans to cross the city for up to 2 hours each way just to support their local team, and people in the north grumble when an away match is scheduled at a slightly difficult time 1 hour away!

There are "regional teams" at the top level of a few RU leagues but each one has 1 single home ground.. there are few that decide to take the game to grounds that are 3-4 hours away (depending on the side of their "home" city that they live). You may get the odd "on the road" game, which I am not against, but having all matches dotted around cities with their own unique identities just means you wont get a hardcore of fans and no "draw" to the side. 

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The original Fulham concept was probably the best, piggybacking off football. That ship has sailed, however.

But what if Broncos piggyback off the NFL if/when a London franchise joins?

If the new NFL London franchise plays at White Hart Lane, there is a rugby league facility literally down the road.

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15 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

This is sad but true.... Even in their hey day at Charlton correct me if I'm wrong the season average was not over 4,000 a game. 

RL in London has it tough. Being near the antipodean areas does sound a good idea though,  wonder if the crowds will turn out? 

It was about 6000 average at Charlton in 1996 when they came 4th. The biggest mistake the club ever made was to move to the Stoop the year after. The average attendance dropped to 5200 despite coming 2nd. This stupid decision also helped Quins RU build their club and I do wonder whether there were some pro-Quins people involved in making that decision to move from Charlton.

btw a London Roos or Kiwis team would never appeal to anyone but the nauseating Kontiki tour Aussies and Kiwis. A top Skolars and Broncos (playing elsewhere) could work

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16 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Where would the support come from? A London Broncos team motoring along in second place in the Championship got 771 people watching them last weekend - and I post that as a supporter! 

To be fair, this weekend just gone London Australia played London NZ in a RL match, and they got a crowd of over 4000. This was amateur RL. 

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5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

The original Fulham concept was probably the best, piggybacking off football. That ship has sailed, however.

But what if Broncos piggyback off the NFL if/when a London franchise joins?

If the new NFL London franchise plays at White Hart Lane, there is a rugby league facility literally down the road.

First off i cant see them playing at White Hart Lane, it needs a dedicated ground as it plays during the football season hence Wembley. One off game is one thing but a full season of posts up and down, line painting etc etc just cant see it happening. 

I can see this piggybacking happening and working in say the states to say "you have a short season how about this game for an alternative" because its true but here the NFL games rely on people travelling quite a distance to watch the game, whether this changes with an franchise is still to be seen, but I cannot see someone travelling from Sheffield to watch London Broncos, but they will travel 4 times to watch the NFL international series matches.

get the Broncos back into say zone 2 and I can see a rise in interest just because of location, i pretty much always lived in zone 2 but getting to brentford or the stoop was a proper shlep and it did mean not going to matches that often especially when you are taking a day out of a weekend to play.. put it in zone 2 (for example) and its more of a 2-3 hour experience rather than taking pretty much a full day out of your weekend.

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26 minutes ago, RP London said:

First off i cant see them playing at White Hart Lane, it needs a dedicated ground as it plays during the football season hence Wembley. One off game is one thing but a full season of posts up and down, line painting etc etc just cant see it happening. 

I can see this piggybacking happening and working in say the states to say "you have a short season how about this game for an alternative" because its true but here the NFL games rely on people travelling quite a distance to watch the game, whether this changes with an franchise is still to be seen, but I cannot see someone travelling from Sheffield to watch London Broncos, but they will travel 4 times to watch the NFL international series matches.

get the Broncos back into say zone 2 and I can see a rise in interest just because of location, i pretty much always lived in zone 2 but getting to brentford or the stoop was a proper shlep and it did mean not going to matches that often especially when you are taking a day out of a weekend to play.. put it in zone 2 (for example) and its more of a 2-3 hour experience rather than taking pretty much a full day out of your weekend.

Let's assume the 'London Franchisers' NFL team play at White Hart Lane, after all the ground is being built with a retractable NFL pitch...

Possible (pipe dream) scenario: Broncos rebrand as 'London Franchisers', with same name, badge, similar kit design as the NFL team and move into a refurbished New River, which would be Super League standard. Skolars remain as a reserve grade side (in revamped league structure).

 

Edited by Man of Kent

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Why start a thread like this, knowing how it would turn out....unless you're deliberately looking to wind people up 

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20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Let's assume the 'London Franchisers' NFL team play at White Hart Lane, after all the ground is being built with a retractable NFL pitch...

Possible (pipe dream) scenario: Broncos rebrand as 'London Franchisers', with same name, badge, similar kit design as the NFL team and move into a refurbished New River, which would be Super League standard. Skolars remain as a reserve grade side (in revamped league structure).

 

first off.. is that true with White Hart Lane? I didnt know that and if so then fair call... I suppose it depends how they give London a franchise, if its the London Jaguars then I would expect Khans attempts to buy Wembley suggest he wants it there but if its a stand alone new franchise then maybe that opens it up a little more.. 

I dont like the idea of moving Broncos again and changing kit and badge etc again and I just dont see why people would link to the two. For example if Sheffield Wednesday had a Field Hockey team I'm still not going to watch it.. If Sheffield United had a Rugby League team I would probably not support them (Eagles playing in red and white I have always thought was not clever and I do struggle with it).

Still to me the biggest issue is that any NFL team in the UK will be trying to pull from all over the UK and probably Germany (where NFL is big and a flight in isnt too expensive or too difficult once or twice a season) but people are not going to do that for a London RL club. I dont see 1 set of supporters supporting another sport just because of the name, they either like the sport or they dont.

Also I would guess that there is a 50/50 chance they would be the "UK franchisers" as much as the "london franchisers" which then causes another problem.

I'm all for thinking differently I just dont see the positives of this that should mean another move/rebrand etc are worth doing. Skolars  linking up with them and trying to be the "option" for NFL supporters off season in London I can understand more.

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12 minutes ago, RP London said:

I dont like the idea of moving Broncos again and changing kit and badge etc again and I just dont see why people would link to the two. For example if Sheffield Wednesday had a Field Hockey team I'm still not going to watch it.. If Sheffield United had a Rugby League team I would probably not support them (Eagles playing in red and white I have always thought was not clever and I do struggle with it).

American football and rugby league have been called the same game with different rules. The similarities are obvious.

It’s a left-field idea, granted, but Ealing is a dead end.

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Just now, Man of Kent said:

American football and rugby league have been called the same game with different rules. The similarities are obvious.

It’s a left-field idea, granted, but Ealing is a dead end.

That is a big statement.  Is Featherstone a dead-end or doing very nicely thank you?

I am not convinced every club has to be huge.  A club in London and a club in Northern London would have very little to do with each other.

Even then, do you think that Broncos have cacptured the available market in the Ealing area?

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2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

That is a big statement.  Is Featherstone a dead-end or doing very nicely thank you?

I am not convinced every club has to be huge.  A club in London and a club in Northern London would have very little to do with each other.

Even then, do you think that Broncos have cacptured the available market in the Ealing area?

Featherstone is a pointless comparison. Pit village with a big ground for its size v one of the biggest cities on Earth playing in a rented, glorified recreation ground.

The point is that piggybacking off NFL would cater to London audiences, who see rugby league (wrongly) as a northern game for northern folk. 

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Featherstone is a pointless comparison. Pit village with a big ground for its size v one of the biggest cities on Earth playing in a rented, glorified recreation ground.

The point is that piggybacking off NFL would cater to London audiences, who see rugby league (wrongly) as a northern game for northern folk. 

Fair enough.

I would see the two Londons as very separate proects.

I would also see the proposed London as rather doomed without rather more too it.  Whether it be Roos, Kiwis or Franchisees, I do not see a particular reason that people not particularly interested in rugby league would attend.  After all, people with an interest in rugby league tended to come south and only occasionally attend the Broncos.  Other than a name, why would that change?

The the NFL side team, a few thoughts.  Why would an NFL team be interested in aligning with rugby league?  It would be a distraction from their business.  And, the PS experience suggests branding alone is not enough.  It seems to fall into the trap that London RL often does of targetting people who are already loyal to another sport.

But, I could be mistaken.

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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

The the NFL side team, a few thoughts.  Why would an NFL team be interested in aligning with rugby league?  It would be a distraction from their business.  And, the PS experience suggests branding alone is not enough.  It seems to fall into the trap that London RL often does of targetting people who are already loyal to another sport.

But, I could be mistaken.

I think I am right in saying the NFL regular season is 16 games between September and December, which fits neatly with the Super League season. It would offer the London NFL franchise a moneyspinner during the NFL off-season. 12 months a year instead of three.

As Toronto have shown, you can get far in RL quite quickly on peanuts compared to the money thrown about in NFL.

 

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

I think I am right in saying the NFL regular season is 16 games between September and December, which fits neatly with the Super League season. It would offer the London NFL franchise a moneyspinner during the NFL off-season. 12 months a year instead of three.

As Toronto have shown, you can get far in RL quite quickly on peanuts compared to the money thrown about in NFL.

The "It would be peanuts" misses the point that it would be a distraction from their main business.  The NFL has had the chance to run a second sport in the summer for decades, it has not done so.  

For the RL to be a money spinner, it does not have to be cheap, it has to be capable of bringing in large amounts of revenue.  I, personally, do not see that.  The experience is the NFL over the last few decades suggests that they do not. 

But, it would be great if it happened.

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