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No mail bags , would imagine he will have first class health/dental care with no waiting times .

Access to a good quality gym and sports hall (inside and outside)

Could even get out to help the local community with litter picking etc .

Education would be provided if he requires to keep his mind active .

Strange world we live in .

 

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40 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

But it's nothing to do with the issue, it's Nawaz saying the same point again and again.  Ignoring the fact that it's muslim men on trial for these issues that Robinson is trying to hijack for his own needs.

If the cases were abandoned, the poor victims would have to repeat their testimony in front of yet another jury and in front of yet another set of hostile questions from the defence, all while the defence get a second bite at the cherry with all the new stuff they can find based on the first set of testimony.  That's who Robinson has hurt with this and why he absolutely deserved the sentence.

Contempt of court is contempt of court whether it's swearing at the judge giving someone 3 points on their driving license or jeopardising a highly difficult, expensive and traumatic trial against some of the worst child abuse crimes the country has seen.

Don't confuse the two.  Nawaz is right in his points but he's also indulging in whataboutisms of the grandest order by using it to condone Robinson's own narcissistic crimes.

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11 minutes ago, ckn said:

But it's nothing to do with the issue, it's Nawaz saying the same point again and again.  Ignoring the fact that it's muslim men on trial for these issues that Robinson is trying to hijack for his own needs.

If the cases were abandoned, the poor victims would have to repeat their testimony in front of yet another jury and in front of yet another set of hostile questions from the defence, all while the defence get a second bite at the cherry with all the new stuff they can find based on the first set of testimony.  That's who Robinson has hurt with this and why he absolutely deserved the sentence.

Contempt of court is contempt of court whether it's swearing at the judge giving someone 3 points on their driving license or jeopardising a highly difficult, expensive and traumatic trial against some of the worst child abuse crimes the country has seen.

Don't confuse the two.  Nawaz is right in his points but he's also indulging in whataboutisms of the grandest order by using it to condone Robinson's own narcissistic crimes.

I'm not questioning that Robinson was in contempt of court and that he had a suspended sentence hanging over him.

But the point that Nawaz is making is that Robinson exists because others failed to act to defend some very vulnerable young people.

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11 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I'm not questioning that Robinson was in contempt of court and that he had a suspended sentence hanging over him.

But the point that Nawaz is making is that Robinson exists because others failed to act to defend some very vulnerable young people.

I don't doubt that there are some people who have become anti-muslim because of these vile incidents but the likes of Robinson aren't in that category.  The man is an odious little thing who uses these incidents to justify his own narcissistic behaviour.

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18 minutes ago, ckn said:

I don't doubt that there are some people who have become anti-muslim because of these vile incidents but the likes of Robinson aren't in that category.  The man is an odious little thing who uses these incidents to justify his own narcissistic behaviour.

To be able to make comments like that, you've obviously studied him in some detail.

I don't know him well enough to pass judgement.

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48 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

 

But the point that Nawaz is making is that Robinson exists because others failed to act to defend some very vulnerable young people.

Then he is wrong.

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29 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

To be able to make comments like that, you've obviously studied him in some detail.

I don't know him well enough to pass judgement.

It was the whole Quilliam thing that Robinson and Nawaz did that fed each other's egos that I remember clearly, both sides talked a good game against anti-extremism but it was really a rancid fist in a silk glove.

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2 minutes ago, ckn said:

It was the whole Quilliam thing that Robinson and Nawaz did that fed each other's egos that I remember clearly, both sides talked a good game against anti-extremism but it was really a rancid fist in a silk glove.

I find that a little confusing. I assume you mean they both claimed to be in favour of anti-extremism.

Why would such talk be a rancid fist in a silk glove?

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Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

I find that a little confusing. I assume you mean they both claimed to be in favour of anti-extremism.

Why would such talk be a rancid fist in a silk glove?

A corruption of the old iron fist in a velvet glove saying that refers to soft words disguising hard intents.  The view of Robinson in his EDL leadership days were clear to all, his view on "English" meant clearly white, British born and from some sort of Christian background in your past.  He joined Quilliam as a way to get plenty of media attention about how great they were and talking about how to combat extremism when really his views were vaguely worded racism of the worst dog-whistle style.  The EDL left Quilliam mainly because the two sides couldn't get along and Robinson felt that merely talking a good game wasn't enough.

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54 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Then he is wrong.

Not entirely. People who's whole reason d'etre is to dislike certain other peoples or races will always exist and chances are that if he wasn't against Muslims, he'd be against Irish or something.

But the fact that these cases (and there are loads of them) weren't investigated because of the ethnic background of the perpetrators, will, and has done, throw a lot of fuel on this particular fire. Had TR not existed, someone else would have stepped up on this issue alone.

In fact, I'm 99% certain that had someone 5 years ago posted on here that there were Xthousand victims in these cases, the insults and ridicule would be flying thick and fast. Tin foil helmet brigade, mail reader etc

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

But the fact that these cases (and there are loads of them) weren't investigated because of the ethnic background of the perpetrators, will, and has done, throw a lot of fuel on this particular fire. Had TR not existed, someone else would have stepped up on this issue alone.

But that isn't true.  They were not investigated because the police and social services (sweeping generalisation) couldn't be bothered as they thought the girls were slappers/chavs/asking for it.  Thats what the multiple investigations have found.  It wasn't race that hindered the investigation, it was a lack of caring.  

TR didn't discover or expose anything.  He took what proper real campaigners and journalists had found and exposed, and used it for his own purpose (he was originally against the poppy burners).  

But we've done that to death so I will probably regret replying.  

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14 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

But that isn't true.  They were not investigated because the police and social services (sweeping generalisation) couldn't be bothered as they thought the girls were slappers/chavs/asking for it.  Thats what the multiple investigations have found.  It wasn't race that hindered the investigation, it was a lack of caring.  

TR didn't discover or expose anything.  He took what proper real campaigners and journalists had found and exposed, and used it for his own purpose (he was originally against the poppy burners).  

But we've done that to death so I will probably regret replying.  

Nope, they've admitted that they didn't pursue the cases due to sensitivity over the race of the accused and not wanting to be seen as racist. I'm sure people can grasp at the chav

angle if they want. But its BS

 

 

 

Y

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15 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

But that isn't true.  They were not investigated because the police and social services (sweeping generalisation) couldn't be bothered as they thought the girls were slappers/chavs/asking for it.  Thats what the multiple investigations have found.  It wasn't race that hindered the investigation, it was a lack of caring.  

 

As far as Rotherham is concerned at least, you are so wrong

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4 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

As far as Rotherham is concerned at least, you are so wrong

We'll get absolutely nowhere, and people like TR will boom, if things aren't faced up to.

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5 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

As far as Rotherham is concerned at least, you are so wrong

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

Unless this is a cover up?

Quote

Within social care, the scale and seriousness of the problem was underplayed by senior managers. At an operational level, the Police gave no priority to CSE, regarding many child victims with contempt and failing to act on their abuse as a crime. Further stark evidence came in 2002, 2003 and 2006 with three reports known to the Police and the Council, which could not have been clearer in their description of the situation in Rotherham. The first of these reports was effectively suppressed because some senior officers disbelieved the data it contained. This had led to suggestions of cover- up. The other two reports set out the links between child sexual exploitation and drugs, guns and criminality in the Borough. These reports were ignored and no action was taken to deal with the issues that were identified in them.

 

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19 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

We'll get absolutely nowhere, and people like TR will boom, if things aren't faced up to.

But he was interrupting an actual trial at which people were being found guilty. How much more facing up do you want than: people have been arrested and charged, there's been a trial, they're guilty, they're now off to jail and once that's sorted, as is usual in cases of sexual abuse, there will be reporting, with some details redacted to protect the victims and/or because there are ongoing investigations into the abusers/their network?

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2 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

But the point that Nawaz is making is that Robinson exists because others failed to act to defend some very vulnerable young people.

In what way is a police investigation leading to arrest and subsequent trial "failing to act"?

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3 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

In what way is a police investigation leading to arrest and subsequent trial "failing to act"?

Yes, the perpetrators have been caught and are under trial now according to our justice and laws.  The problem is though that the public sector weakness around not making tough decisions is still there.  I still haven't seen any evidence that there has been organisational learning along the way the Stephen Lawrence learning aimed to help police racism.

Even if you absolutely removed all comments about race and religion, people at all levels of public life failed these victims because they were afraid to make tough decisions.  The Rotherham abuses could have been caught far earlier but for cowardice around making tough decisions.  Where's the organisational learning to make sure it doesn't happen again and that there's enough safeguards in place to make sure of it.  For example, straight off the top of my head, make every allegation of abuse reviewable by two organisationally separate forces/teams who never get to meet in any way.

It's an insidious weakness in public life that tough decisions are parked because they're too difficult and risk reputations.  I've seen people make horrible decisions that severely impact lives because that's the easy decision rather than the hard decision that may be right but puts the decision makers' reputations at risk.

Waaaay off topic but there's more than one way the victims were failed.  The police investigation that led to their current trials is fair enough, it's just far, far too late.

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30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

But he was interrupting an actual trial at which people were being found guilty. How much more facing up do you want than: people have been arrested and charged, there's been a trial, they're guilty, they're now off to jail and once that's sorted, as is usual in cases of sexual abuse, there will be reporting, with some details redacted to protect the victims and/or because there are ongoing investigations into the abusers/their network?

I aren't arguing for TR, it seems to me like he's bang to rights in this case. But ignoring peoples concerns over things like the sex abuse scandals as just racist hick stuff will lead to people saying 'you know what? They are right'. And our society will become even more divided and segregated than it already is.

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1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

But that isn't true.  They were not investigated because the police and social services (sweeping generalisation) couldn't be bothered as they thought the girls were slappers/chavs/asking for it.  Thats what the multiple investigations have found.  It wasn't race that hindered the investigation, it was a lack of caring.  

TR didn't discover or expose anything.  He took what proper real campaigners and journalists had found and exposed, and used it for his own purpose (he was originally against the poppy burners).  

But we've done that to death so I will probably regret replying.  

BR..... 

My lad is a current councillor.

Im on holiday with the current cabinet councillor with responsibility for health.

Shaun Wright i know well. He lives in the same village and was instrumental in encouragingthe boy into local politics.

I know John Healy well. Sarah less so. I don't wish to know kevin.

I work in rotherham and I'm involved with all aspects of the CSE . Rovrum still bares the scars and will do for a generation

Joyce Thacker and her deputy paid the price. As did Roger Stone and Shaun.

OFSTED even came in for some sheeite. Most annoyingly,, SYP didn't..... only in that unlike other bodies, no police employees were subject to any form of censure.Diabolical.

I am privvy as to why the cross proffessional agencies did not respond. It is exactly how John suggest.

Every councillor in town knows this. Every bug ger else knows this if im honest.

No one in town has any other belief. 

Children service has smartened up their act.

Councillors are wiser, esp the younger and recently elected.

Police are more savvy and directed accordingly.

Schools are more aware.

We in the professional sector know why and how it happened.

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1 hour ago, Griff9of13 said:

In what way is a police investigation leading to arrest and subsequent trial "failing to act"?

I'd call it closing the stable door after the horse has bolted personally. It shouldn't have been allowed to spread as it did. It's not a case for congratulations to the police here.

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50 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

BR..... 

My lad is a current councillor.

Im on holiday with the current cabinet councillor with responsibility for health.

Shaun Wright i know well. He lives in the same village and was instrumental in encouragingthe boy into local politics.

I know John Healy well. Sarah less so. I don't wish to know kevin.

I work in rotherham and I'm involved with all aspects of the CSE . Rovrum still bares the scars and will do for a generation

Joyce Thacker and her deputy paid the price. As did Roger Stone and Shaun.

OFSTED even came in for some sheeite. Most annoyingly,, SYP didn't..... only in that unlike other bodies, no police employees were subject to any form of censure.Diabolical.

I am privvy as to why the cross proffessional agencies did not respond. It is exactly how John suggest.

Every councillor in town knows this. Every bug ger else knows this if im honest.

No one in town has any other belief. 

Children service has smartened up their act.

Councillors are wiser, esp the younger and recently elected.

Police are more savvy and directed accordingly.

Schools are more aware.

We in the professional sector know why and how it happened.

Having worked in children's services within the last five years, not within Rotherham though, I can back this up - Rotherham is case study city.  It's how not to deal with CSE on multiple levels, including race/religion.

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

But ignoring peoples concerns over things like the sex abuse scandals as just racist hick stuff will lead to people saying 'you know what? They are right'.

But the facts really don't show that Pakistani men are more likely to be sex offenders than men from any other group (and the overwhelming majority of sex offenders will be men). Yes, fear of being seen to be racist can play a part in some cases but, equally, not wanting to go against a hierarchy (Catholic church for example) or simply not believing the victim (as pointed out above, this is alarmingly regular and still goes on, especially when the allegation comes from a child in care or similar) come into it too.

Here's a link https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/. This does, by the way, suggest that there may be more Asian men involved in grooming gangs than you would expect relative to the population (with caveats on the data) but also points out that that's just one type of abuse. And it is worth reading because it highlights the difficulty of finding a 'truth'.

The one thing I think we can agree on is that Tommy Robinson does not care about the truth in any meaningful sense. There are unreported child sex abuse cases with equivalent blackout restrictions going on every day. There's a certain similarity about the ones he chooses to turn up to.

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