Cannabis -  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Should cannabis be -

    • Legalised, regulated and taxed?
      24
    • kept illegal?
      1
    • Allowed medically, but illegal for general public?
      18


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Time for a sensible discussion by parliament?  Or a continuation of the same policies?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44526156

Quote

 

Former Conservative leader Lord Hague has called for a "decisive change" in the law on cannabis - suggesting that the Tories should consider legalising recreational use of the drug.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, he said "any war" has been "irreversibly lost". 

Lord Hague goes further than senior Tories who have suggested a law change after a boy with epilepsy was given a special licence to use cannabis oil.

 

 

Edited by Bedford Roughyed

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I would legalise it for strict medicinal use now, but I would see how the Canadian law change is working before legalising it across the general population as a whole.

I do think prohibition has failed, but there are question marks about the strength of the drug, heavy use and mental illness.

 

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In my experience, heavy users either end up with mental issues or end up serious drug users. Its not the harmless puff on a joint it's portrayed.

And this is from when it was pretty hard to get hold of cannabis, now it's commonplace - I frequently see (and smell) people smoking joints in public places, once would have been unthinkable. If we were talking in another 20 years and a generation brought up on freely available cannabis, I imagine the numbers of addicts or mentally disturbed people would be very very high.

As for the argument 'what about alcohol?' Yes, alcohol causes many problems but it's here and can't be uninvented. Were alcohol invented today, I've no doubt  it would be banned too.

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14 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Were alcohol invented today, I've no doubt  it would be banned too.

Probably, and cigarettes too.  

Then again, cannabis is as ‘old’ as those two, but for whatever historical quirk, ones illegal the others not.  

(I genuinely don’t know the history of why one is illegal, and others not. Talking ‘natural’ drugs/leaves/alcohol things rather than ‘hard’ drugs)

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A friend of mine got a significant dose of heavy metal poisoning in the Canadian Navy and the single thing that has taken him from being a three-times-a-year hospital inpatient to living a comfortable life was medical cannabis.  He was quite against it when his Canadian doctor first proposed to prescribe it but now swears by it.

I voted for the completely legalise option.  I take Johnoco's point but the damaging stuff is well known, if we legalise the stuff that's milder or well known through clinical testing then that's better than getting mouldy garage grown stuff with known-bad side effects.  As long as the big manufacturers priced it properly so they made a reasonable profit rather than killing it'd drive all bar the worst of the criminal element out of business.

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I'm always entertained by the notion that by legalising Cannabis we will eliminate the criminality involved when even a moment's consideration shows the massive holes in this argument.

The first being that criminals are not selling cannabis out of some life long desire to bring high qualiy doobies to the masses but rather because it is a quick and relatively easy way to make large sums of money witout the bother of having to work, if the Cannabis market is suddenly closed to them they will in the main just move on to flogging something else illegal, whether that's Crystal Meth, bootleg copies of Fifty Shades of Grey or fake Gucci watches doesn't matter to them.

Second point is that while there may then be a legal market and legal sources it doesn't stop people flogging dodgy tobacco and alcohol right now, and smuggling the real stuff through the channel tunnel, a problem we are going to bring back with Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-15227238

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2017/07/21/Fraud-officers-raid-suspected-fake-vodka-factory

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/thousands-pounds-worth-fake-cigarettes-1330542

so whether we legalise or not it won't cure as many problems as Lord Hague seems to think

Edited by Shadow
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Completely legalise it. Increase tax revenues, free police up to do actual police work, take money away from crime gangs, stop criminalising people for something that has essentially no impact on anyone else. People should be free to choose what they put into their own body. I'd apply the same rules to MDMA, ketamine, LSD, and mushrooms though.

6 minutes ago, Shadow said:

I'm always entertained by the notion that by legalising Cannabis we will eliminate the criminality involved when even a moment's consideration shows the massive holes in this argument.

The fiorst being that criminals are not selling cannabis out of some life long desire to bring high qualiy doobies to the masses but rather because it is a quick and relatively easy way to make large sums of money witout the bother of having to work, if the Cannabis market is suddenly closed to them they will in the main just move on to flogging something else illegal, whether that's Crystal Meth, booytleg copies of Fifty Shades of Grey or fake Gucci watches doesn't matter to them.

Second point is that while there may then be a legal market and legal sources it doesn't stop people flogging dodgy tobacco and alcohol and smuggling the real stuff through the channel tunnel, a problem we are going to bring back with Brexit.

Criminals are responding to a gap in the market due to its illegality obviously, but making cannabis illegal would still take money off them. Let the crime gangs move on to trying to bootleg movies, if that was so obvious they would be doing both already. 

It doesn't stop people selling dodgy stuff no. But how much dodgy alcohol do you think would be sold if it was illegal? More or less than now? 

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13 minutes ago, Shadow said:

I'm always entertained by the notion that by legalising Cannabis we will eliminate the criminality involved when even a moment's consideration shows the massive holes in this argument.

The first being that criminals are not selling cannabis out of some life long desire to bring high qualiy doobies to the masses but rather because it is a quick and relatively easy way to make large sums of money witout the bother of having to work, if the Cannabis market is suddenly closed to them they will in the main just move on to flogging something else illegal, whether that's Crystal Meth, bootleg copies of Fifty Shades of Grey or fake Gucci watches doesn't matter to them.

Second point is that while there may then be a legal market and legal sources it doesn't stop people flogging dodgy tobacco and alcohol right now, and smuggling the real stuff through the channel tunnel, a problem we are going to bring back with Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-15227238

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2017/07/21/Fraud-officers-raid-suspected-fake-vodka-factory

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/thousands-pounds-worth-fake-cigarettes-1330542

so whether we legalise or not it won't cure as many problems as Lord Hague seems to think

It would kill off the vast majority of illegal cannabis sales, you'd still get those who "need" the stronger stuff or want to get cheaper it off a mate down the pub but your typical user would have a safe source of the stuff at a fair price.  The criminals will still go and do their bit but elsewhere, that's the story of thousands of years of civilisation.

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It should be legal.

Been an age since I had any so I probably remember it wrong but definitely went no madder than I was usually and was a lot less screwed than on booze.

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58 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It should be legal.

Been an age since I had any so I probably remember it wrong but definitely went no madder than I was usually and was a lot less screwed than on booze.

I smoked it many times, it was bloody boring!

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

I smoked it many times, it was bloody boring!

The stuff I had was mild. It had an effect but nothing major. It was pleasant.

Relatively speaking I got 'higher' from a perfectly legal monster of a Cuban cigar.

Man, I do love a good cigar.

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The history of recreational drugs in the UK is interesting. I had no idea, for example, that a chemist at a London hospital was responsible for inventing heroin.  How proud of that I am.  Not.

Cannabis has been illegal since 1928, with its medical use banned in 1971.  I don't know why it was banned for medical use and I think it's strange that it is given that we used opioids for medicinal purposes.  I'm all for cannabis being available for medical purposes, under strict medical direction of course.  However, I don't buy the argument that everything will be ok if we legalise cannabis.  It should stay illegal IMO.

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2 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The history of recreational drugs in the UK is interesting. I had no idea, for example, that a chemist at a London hospital was responsible for inventing heroin.  How proud of that I am.  Not.

Cannabis has been illegal since 1928, with its medical use banned in 1971.  I don't know why it was banned for medical use and I think it's strange that it is given that we used opioids for medicinal purposes.  I'm all for cannabis being available for medical purposes, under strict medical direction of course.  However, I don't buy the argument that everything will be ok if we legalise cannabis.  It should stay illegal IMO.

I would agree.

Can you test for Cannabis on a vehicle driver? 

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2 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

I would agree.

Can you test for Cannabis on a vehicle driver? 

I know that there is a drug test now on drivers.  I would assume that includes cannabis given its prevalence.

Study by University of York shows increase in cannabis addiction in people over 40 and also links to information on the strength of the pot available in this country, making legalisation very difficult to justify IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The history of recreational drugs in the UK is interesting. I had no idea, for example, that a chemist at a London hospital was responsible for inventing heroin.  How proud of that I am.  Not.

I don't iunderstand what youre getting at here.

The article quite clearly states Heroin is another name for diacetylmorphine which is used in the treatment of acute pain. It's a widely used and useful pain relieving treatment.

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Just now, Shadow said:

I don't iunderstand what youre getting at here.

The article quite clearly states Heroin is another name for diacetylmorphine which is used in the treatment of acute pain. It's a widely used and useful pain relieving treatment.

I wasn't 'getting at' anything in particular.  As I said, it was just an interesting history.  It showed that cannabis had been banned since 1928 for example, which I didn't know.  I thought it had been banned more recently than that given the stories of widespread use in the 1960s.  

I know about heroin.  I was simply referring to what it said in the article.  Again, I didn't know a Brit had been responsible for inventing it.  Pity these things had to be invented at all, thinking of the destruction caused by heroin these days.

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8 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

I would agree.

Can you test for Cannabis on a vehicle driver? 

There are already 'drug driving' limits so there must be some test out there. There was a loophole that you could get done for drink driving but not being incapacitated by drugs - that was closed a while back.

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9 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I know about heroin.  I was simply referring to what it said in the article.  Again, I didn't know a Brit had been responsible for inventing it.  Pity these things had to be invented at all, thinking of the destruction caused by heroin these days.

The misuse of Heroin is a very tiny part of the overall use of a heavy duty painkiller, it's a pity we have illnesses that require such strong medication but when you've got a relative or friend in the last stages of terminal cancer you will be more than happy it exists.

Are you sorry Lager was invented because people get drunk and start fights?

 

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17 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I wasn't 'getting at' anything in particular.  As I said, it was just an interesting history.  It showed that cannabis had been banned since 1928 for example, which I didn't know.  I thought it had been banned more recently than that given the stories of widespread use in the 1960s.  

I know about heroin.  I was simply referring to what it said in the article.  Again, I didn't know a Brit had been responsible for inventing it.  Pity these things had to be invented at all, thinking of the destruction caused by heroin these days.

for heroin insert any of the following:

Painkillers in general

alcohol

gambling

knives

gunpowder

all of which are useful and/or harmless but if they are misused cause destruction to families and people and communities. 

Not saying Heroin is good but just that everything good can be misused and become bad.. 

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41 minutes ago, Shadow said:

The misuse of Heroin is a very tiny part of the overall use of a heavy duty painkiller, it's a pity we have illnesses that require such strong medication but when you've got a relative or friend in the last stages of terminal cancer you will be more than happy it exists.

Are you sorry Lager was invented because people get drunk and start fights?

 

Yes, I am sorry that lager was invented.  I'm sorry that a lot of things were invented.

I have had a few relatives die from cancer, as I'm sure most people have.  That doesn't stop me regretting the destruction caused by heroin - I've seen that, too - or regretting that it was invented at all. 

Edited by Saintslass

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I know LSD was developed as a 'truth drug' in the USA in the 40's or 50's. The idea was to get people to confess to crimes and so forth. Although how being out if your t!ts on acid would reveal much by the way of truth I'm not sure.

I had a *really* bad acid trip in 1984 and haven't touched drugs since (drugs as in this discussion, is illegal)

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1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

Yes, I am sorry that lager was invented.  I'm sorry that a lot of things were invented.

I have had a few relatives die from cancer, as I'm sure most people have.  That doesn't stop me regretting the destruction caused by heroin - I've seen that, too - or regretting that it was invented at all. 

You can regret the destruction caused by anything. I welcome the freedom of travel provided by access to flight but deplore the industrial levels of death and destruction meted out by heavy bombers. I'm not stupid enough to regret the invention of the aeroplane though.

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