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Lobbygobbler

Embarrasing incorrect years of club establishment

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I’ve noticed recently that several club garments  have incorrect years of establishment which deny heritage before 1895 even though the rules were basically the same before and after the split (for a couple of years).

An annoying example is Ellis Rugbys merchandise for Huddersfield which says est 1895, yet Worster Worriers are apparently older, whichnus garbage as Huddersfield RLFC were established in tve 1860s

Dewsbury state 1898 on their shirt but were formed well before that, supplying England  internationals

Why is more not being done to ensure our real club history becore 1895 is preserved?

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There's probably reasons. IE Bradford FC became Bradford Park Avenue and although Bradford Northern started pretty much straight away, they weren't necessarily a continuation of the same club. Not saying they weren't, i just can't remember without looking it up.

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Another SuperGreed omnishambles. I blame Lindsay, Wood, Lenagan.........

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I think something similar is the case with Dewsbury.They didn't join the breakaway  at the outset and may have a split at the club a couple of years later with one faction joining the NU.

 

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This bugs me with Leeds as well who have a whole range of merchandise with the wrong year on - obviously 1895 is a great year, but it's not the year the club was founded (which I think is either 1870 or 1889 depending on whether you count Leeds St Johns as predecessor club or not).

We do a terrible job of defining and promoting our history - which is terrible because it is a story unique in world sport.

22179967-front.jpg

Edited by M j M
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1 hour ago, M j M said:

This bugs me with Leeds as well who have a whole range of merchandise with the wrong year on - obviously 1895 is a great year, but it's not the year the club was founded (which I think is either 1870 or 1889 depending on whether you count Leeds St Johns as predecessor club or not).

We do a terrible job of defining and promoting our history - which is terrible because it is a story unique in world sport.

22179967-front.jpg

Warrington have been great on the heritage stuff in recent years.

a8s9a3903.jpg?maxheight=1200

 

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11 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

I’ve noticed recently that several club garments  have incorrect years of establishment which deny heritage before 1895 even though the rules were basically the same before and after the split (for a couple of years).

An annoying example is Ellis Rugbys merchandise for Huddersfield which says est 1895, yet Worster Worriers are apparently older, whichnus garbage as Huddersfield RLFC were established in tve 1860s

Dewsbury state 1898 on their shirt but were formed well before that, supplying England  internationals

Why is more not being done to ensure our real club history becore 1895 is preserved?

I think that is a real shame. Google seems to think the Rhinos were established in 1895 as well...

I know the Melbourne AFL clubs are very proud of their establishment years, some ranging back to 1850’s making them some of the oldest football clubs in the world.

I was rather annoyed the year the Sharks won their first premiership (it was the club’s 50th season). The club decided to celebrate the 51st season, calling it their 50th Anniversary. I would think the year to celebrate is the milestone year 50th/75th/100th whatever, not the year after.

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Actually Warrington Wolves were established in 1995, Warrington RLFC were 1876

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18 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

Actually Warrington Wolves were established in 1995, Warrington RLFC were 1876

Seems unlikely we were called Warrington RLFC 46 years before the sport they played was called 'rugby league'.

Actually the research the club has supported has found that the original Warrington club from 1876 was called Warrington Zingari and merged with / absorbed another club called Padgate Excelsior in the 1880s. All the same history of the present Warrington club.

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Before my time, but I do think Widnes celebrated a centenary in 1975

The newspaper image From Wikipedia regarding Widnes

 

F077C539-0D3C-4E25-9230-4DB82CA85698.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Seems unlikely we were called Warrington RLFC 46 years before the sport they played was called 'rugby league'.

Actually the research the club has supported has found that the original Warrington club from 1876 was called Warrington Zingari and merged with / absorbed another club called Padgate Excelsior in the 1880s. All the same history of the present Warrington club.

My mistake. I should've known better, sorry about the RLFC

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9 hours ago, koli said:

I think something similar is the case with Dewsbury.They didn't join the breakaway  at the outset and may have a split at the club a couple of years later with one faction joining the NU.

 

The original Dewsbury club folded and moved to Saville Town to play soccer, selling all of their assets. A completely new club was formed subsequently which managed to get a lease at the old ground, although having to create brand new facilities for playing purposes. This was in 1898.

HTH

"The Grounds of Rugby League" by Trevor Delaney is incredibly informative about such matters.

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5 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Seems unlikely we were called Warrington RLFC 46 years before the sport they played was called 'rugby league'.

Actually the research the club has supported has found that the original Warrington club from 1876 was called Warrington Zingari and merged with / absorbed another club called Padgate Excelsior in the 1880s. All the same history of the present Warrington club.

Padgate Excelsior? Boy oh boy, did they opt for the wrong name for the merged entity!

Edited by Futtocks
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2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Padgate Excelsior? Boy oh boy, did they opt for the wrong name for the merged entity!

You can imagine that, even in the days of Warrington Zingari and Padgate Excelsior, there were a few old curmudgeons at a bar chuntering about 'what is wrong with just plain Warrington or Padgate, like in the old days?'

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33 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Padgate Excelsior? Boy oh boy, did they opt for the wrong name for the merged entity!

Ohhh wanky wanky, wanky wanky wanky wanky Padgate Excelsior. See it doesn’t work. 

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48 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

The original Dewsbury club folded and moved to Saville Town to play soccer, selling all of their assets. A completely new club was formed subsequently which managed to get a lease at the old ground, although having to create brand new facilities for playing purposes. This was in 1898.

HTH

"The Grounds of Rugby League" by Trevor Delaney is incredibly informative about such matters.

Same fans, same ground as the original club = continuation if club history. No different to Hull FC in the 90’s or Leigh having one year off after the war.

 It sure why Dewsbury dont call their heritage back beyond 1898 - every RU club does the same

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Zingari, I believe  means "gypises"  

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6 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Same fans, same ground as the original club = continuation if club history. No different to Hull FC in the 90’s or Leigh having one year off after the war.

 It sure why Dewsbury dont call their heritage back beyond 1898 - every RU club does the same

But it isn't at all. The old lease was terminated and the ground assets sold off and removed. The original club, and it's history continued at a new site for a few years more, probably including all of the players and fans.

The fact that the new club managed to obtain a lease on the same bit of land is incidental. What you are saying equates with Liverpool FC aligning their history with Everton.

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8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Zingari, I believe  means "gypises"  

Or even gypsies (I know that you are a stickler for accuracy).

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This should form part of the scoring system for licensing along with ‘rectangularity’ of the pitch, clear pitch markings, and 100% cotton replica shirts.

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7 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

But it isn't at all. The old lease was terminated and the ground assets sold off and removed. The original club, and it's history continued at a new site for a few years more, probably including all of the players and fans.

The fact that the new club managed to obtain a lease on the same bit of land is incidental. What you are saying equates with Liverpool FC aligning their history with Everton.

There was only a 5 month gap between the last game as the “old club” (last game in Nov 1897) and the “new club” (Apr 1898). That is similar to the end of season break. Pretty sure all the fans of the old club would have carried the torch forward. RU clubs are desperate to have histories like Dewsbury (est. 1875)

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20 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Zingari, I believe  means "gypises"  

 

10 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Or even gypsies (I know that you are a stickler for accuracy).

There was - and is - a cricket club founded in 1845 called I Zingari CC.  They are/were gypsy-like in the sense of having no home ground; in other words, they are nomadic.  I wonder if there became a Victorian vogue for homeless clubs in various sports to use the word 'Zingari' to reflect that, and if so, whether Warrington Zingari had no home ground.

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31 minutes ago, Manx RL said:

This should form part of the scoring system for licensing along with ‘rectangularity’ of the pitch, clear pitch markings, and 100% cotton replica shirts.

Don’t forget the baby changing facilities. 

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