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Jam eaters takeover

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1 hour ago, Keith T said:

I don’t post on here or the Haven site very often since I had a stroke 2 years ago but how refreshing to read a post that actually makes a lot of sense.

i started to shout out for one club/team in SL from this area back in the 90’s when both teams could get crowds of 2 - 3,000 and I still say the same today when both clubs are lucky if they can get 600.   Both our clubs/teams are in the lowest professional league with crowds dropping year on year and yet both clubs are guilty of pandering to a few whilst the silent majority watch SL or other sport on the TV.  How much plainer can it be put that people in this area are walking away from the professional game in their droves and younger supporters are taking up some other past-times instead.

It matters not to me at my age but for the sake of the kids and the future it’s time for both clubs to get their heads together and come up with one club/team with the aim of getting to SL.   It is a subject that gets raised every so many years and then forgotten about until the next crisis arises for one or the other but neither club is looking great at the moment.

As I say it doesn’t matter any more to me but for those young ones and supporters of the future at least give them a chance.

Totally agree Keith T and I also shouted for a merged West Cumbria team when the support at both clubs was pretty strong and also could have made a solid nucleus of quality players from both teams to compete in super league with a couple of oversea's additions.

There is not a huge pot of money floating around in West Cumbria but 2 clubs diluting and chasing the same money does not help.When asked by a Whitehaven Board member  2 years ago where would I build a new Stadium I suggested Distington/Lillyhall as it was inbetween both grounds but also close to the A66 for away supporters so would be ideal in my opinion as well as having plenty of land  available to build on and close enough to the University to tie up with them for facilities for an academy team.

The reply was no way would we go there as it is in Allerdale and sadly that is what we are up against,narrow minded people with their own agendas not looking at what is best for the future of Rugby League in West Cumbria.

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1 hour ago, bobg said:

They(haven) are so desperate now they will agree to anything. So sad to see.

Sounds like a bad deal is better than no deal, where have I heard that before? 🤔

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Those looking to takeover hold the cards, and if they didn't receive the financial information they were looking for first time round, then they will have to make their due diligence even tighter, and there will be deeper questioning of the figures. If its taken 2 weeks not to come up with a true position of the level of debt, it should ring alarm bells, and I can't see Haven coming up with the figures on that point, as they haven't already. All the time it goes on. the level of trust will ebb away

The report this morning also stated that the transfer of shares from the estate of the late Mrs Raaz was also a sticking point. Is that likely to change?

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14 minutes ago, Cumberland Sausage said:

Totally agree Keith T and I also shouted for a merged West Cumbria team when the support at both clubs was pretty strong and also could have made a solid nucleus of quality players from both teams to compete in super league with a couple of oversea's additions.

There is not a huge pot of money floating around in West Cumbria but 2 clubs diluting and chasing the same money does not help.When asked by a Whitehaven Board member  2 years ago where would I build a new Stadium I suggested Distington/Lillyhall as it was inbetween both grounds but also close to the A66 for away supporters so would be ideal in my opinion as well as having plenty of land  available to build on and close enough to the University to tie up with them for facilities for an academy team.

The reply was no way would we go there as it is in Allerdale and sadly that is what we are up against,narrow minded people with their own agendas not looking at what is best for the future of Rugby League in West Cumbria.

Is the future of West Cumbrian RL the main concern of most Town and haven diehards ? I would say no. I understand what you are saying but I support Workington Town RLFC and have done for 55yrs and for me if there's no Town then my interest in the game would finish. I'm sure there will be more than a few supporters from both clubs who feel the same way. We need to see the local amateur game grow again fot the pro clubs to thrive., i dont think summer rugby is helping. Call me narrow minded if you want but thats the way i feel. 

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19 minutes ago, unicorn106 said:

Is the future of West Cumbrian RL the main concern of most Town and haven diehards ? I would say no. I understand what you are saying but I support Workington Town RLFC and have done for 55yrs and for me if there's no Town then my interest in the game would finish. I'm sure there will be more than a few supporters from both clubs who feel the same way. We need to see the local amateur game grow again fot the pro clubs to thrive., i dont think summer rugby is helping. Call me narrow minded if you want but thats the way i feel. 

Success in the Pro game is what generates the interest in playing rugby in the amateur game not vice versa

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1 hour ago, unicorn106 said:

Is the future of West Cumbrian RL the main concern of most Town and haven diehards ? I would say no. I understand what you are saying but I support Workington Town RLFC and have done for 55yrs and for me if there's no Town then my interest in the game would finish. I'm sure there will be more than a few supporters from both clubs who feel the same way. We need to see the local amateur game grow again fot the pro clubs to thrive., i dont think summer rugby is helping. Call me narrow minded if you want but thats the way i feel. 

That’s fine by me unicorn 106 but for everyone like you there are 5 or 6 who have walked away from both clubs.  I don’t think you or anyone else can argue against that.  

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1 hour ago, unicorn106 said:

Is the future of West Cumbrian RL the main concern of most Town and haven diehards ? I would say no. I understand what you are saying but I support Workington Town RLFC and have done for 55yrs and for me if there's no Town then my interest in the game would finish. I'm sure there will be more than a few supporters from both clubs who feel the same way. We need to see the local amateur game grow again fot the pro clubs to thrive., i dont think summer rugby is helping. Call me narrow minded if you want but thats the way i feel. 

With you on this unicorn106.......having followed Town since the 1960's I would not like to see the name of the club disappear.

And who is going to guarantee that a merged outfit would be in Superleague anyway?(maybe I have missed something on this?)

No sorry 'merger fans' just not workable.... .. I would envisage while we would have just the one club in west Cumbria....they would still be struggling for support. And primarily because playing success would be as difficult to rein in as ever. And, incidentally, it wont matter one iota to the young populous who will continue to have many other agendas to spend their cash on....UTT...

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31 minutes ago, Keith T said:

That’s fine by me unicorn 106 but for everyone like you there are 5 or 6 who have walked away from both clubs.  I don’t think you or anyone else can argue against that.  

Great to see you posting again Keith and hope you are well. Who knows if those who have walked away would come back and support a new club, most of the lads I know who used to follow Town home and away have said they wouldn't be interested in watching a new team so I doubt it.. It's all about opinions and what people want I'm just stating how I feel about it, I have no faith in the top brass who run the game whatsoever. All the best Keith.

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12 hours ago, unicorn106 said:

Is the future of West Cumbrian RL the main concern of most Town and haven diehards ? I would say no. I understand what you are saying but I support Workington Town RLFC and have done for 55yrs and for me if there's no Town then my interest in the game would finish. I'm sure there will be more than a few supporters from both clubs who feel the same way. We need to see the local amateur game grow again fot the pro clubs to thrive., i dont think summer rugby is helping. Call me narrow minded if you want but thats the way i feel. 

Thats the whole point about the old diehards; such a narrow view; they'll die with their clubs. How do you see the future of Town (or Haven) going then? What ambitions do you have for the side? What happens when you Chrome Dome and the other OAP’s (with their concessionary ticket prices) have gone?

You say you are not concerned about West Cumbian RL but then bemoan the problems with the amateur game? How are you going to generate interest in the amateur game  if not with a more successful dynamic West Cumbrian club?

Edited by Oneday
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The more I see and experience of where the clubs are up here , how over time things have declined in several ways , and most importantly the direction of travel in the game , I’m now swayed that unless some hidden millionaire steps forward to takeover a club then the only way forward and to make an impression is to have a West Cumbria team . History , heritage etc are great but we are hanging on to less n less up here and becoming more sidelined. Koukash talked sense for me , folk outside can see it and I think we have to see outside the bubble to . We are increasingly small fish in a big pond 

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18 minutes ago, DavidM said:

The more I see and experience of where the clubs are up here , how over time things have declined in several ways , and most importantly the direction of travel in the game , I’m now swayed that unless some hidden millionaire steps forward to takeover a club then the only way forward and to make an impression is to have a West Cumbria team . History , heritage etc are great but we are hanging on to less n less up here and becoming more sidelined. Koukash talked sense for me , folk outside can see it and I think we have to see outside the bubble to . We are increasingly small fish in a big pond 

100% agree.

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I still don't see how forming one team will be better for the area. The RFL have showed with Toronto that there is no fast tracking to SL. Can someone please explain to me how a new team in League One is going to attract all these that won't come to League One games at the moment? Even when we were both in the Championship gates were still below 1000.

I am like others if my team goes under, which seems increasingly more likely, I will not be travelling to Workington, Lillyhall or anywhere else to watch a League One team. My lifetime of watching the team I love appears to be careering to an end I am sad to say.

Edited by Marrafan
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1 hour ago, Oneday said:

Thats the whole point about the old diehards; such a narrow view; they'll die with their clubs. How do you see the future of Town (or Haven) going then? What ambitions do you have for the side? What happens when you Chrome Dome and the other OAP’s (with their concessionary ticket prices) have gone?

You say you are not concerned about West Cumbian RL but then bemoan the problems with the amateur game? How are you going to generate interest in the amateur game  if not with a more successful dynamic West Cumbrian club?

Yep loyalty to Town prevails. And I had hair when the 'M' word surfaced....been through it all so many many times....the same old arguments just recycle. Let me add I would love a billionaire to fund a top west Cumbrian outfit..but it's always a dream. As for your ref, in brackets, to " concessionary ticket prices" it's something for you to look forward to....

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19 minutes ago, Marrafan said:

I still don't see how forming one team will be better for the area. The RFL have showed with Toronto that there is no fast tracking to SL. Can someone please explain to me how a new team in League One is going to attract all these that won't come to League One games at the moment? Even when we were both in the Championship gates were still below 1000.

I am like others if my team goes under, which seems increasingly more likely, I will not be travelling to Workington, Lillyhall or anywhere else to watch a League One team. My lifetime of watching the team I love appears to be careering to an end I am sad to say.

Ye, Bit sad that Marrafan so I take it you are just a Haven fan rather than a Rugby League fan in general.

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31 minutes ago, Marrafan said:

I still don't see how forming one team will be better for the area. The RFL have showed with Toronto that there is no fast tracking to SL. Can someone please explain to me how a new team in League One is going to attract all these that won't come to League One games at the moment? Even when we were both in the Championship gates were still below 1000.

I am like others if my team goes under, which seems increasingly more likely, I will not be travelling to Workington, Lillyhall or anywhere else to watch a League One team. My lifetime of watching the team I love appears to be careering to an end I am sad to say.

Ok then we’ll just fade away or struggle on against ever greater odds and adversity getting further n further away from the centre of the action , hanging on to what we had and have and mulling over great past times and dreaming of it happening again among ever smaller numbers 

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Old standoff I am a rugby league fan. I will still watch amateur games etc. David M just show me some evidence or some thing that indicates that West Cumbrians want to support one West Cumbrian team in League One or even the Championship because the attendances in both leagues don’t back that up.

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6 minutes ago, Marrafan said:

Old standoff I am a rugby league fan. I will still watch amateur games etc. David M just show me some evidence or some thing that indicates that West Cumbrians want to support one West Cumbrian team in League One or even the Championship because the attendances in both leagues don’t back that up.

The evidence against the status quo is staring us in the face here and among the power brokers if you open your eyes and see it . If you never go for anything and try to change then you’ll get nothing and nowhere . But you need the will first and foremost . What’s there to lose right now is what I’d say of exploring alternatives to THIS ? 

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4 minutes ago, DavidM said:

The evidence against the status quo is staring us in the face here and among the power brokers if you open your eyes and see it . If you never go for anything and try to change then you’ll get nothing and nowhere . But you need the will first and foremost . What’s there to lose right now is what I’d say of exploring alternatives to THIS ? 

OK then where is all this money coming from to support this brand new future? I will ask the question again why will just the one team attract more than what both teams are attracting now when they play in League one? Look at the attendances of both clubs when they were in the Championship what will attract more to one team? Your argument regarding a millionaire coming forward is as relevant for one team as it is to the current two teams. Changing the status quo is not always for the best. 

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8 minutes ago, Marrafan said:

OK then where is all this money coming from to support this brand new future? I will ask the question again why will just the one team attract more than what both teams are attracting now when they play in League one? Look at the attendances of both clubs when they were in the Championship what will attract more to one team? Your argument regarding a millionaire coming forward is as relevant for one team as it is to the current two teams. Changing the status quo is not always for the best. 

Ok , I have no evidence or argument to support something that hasn’t happened . We can find a thousand reasons not to do something though , as it’s what people know , and fair enough then . But history and our sport  is littered with people saying don’t change anything . We ‘ll see how things pan out as either way I think it’s coming to a head 

Edited by DavidM
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It is a well known saying 'In life people resist change'. I as an 88 years old supporter following Town from its very first professional game in 1945 believe we cannot stand in the way of progress. It is fairly obvious to me if for only economic reasons the two clubs combined to make one club savings would be hugely significant.

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Ive always felt the way forward is to have an entirely new club in the top league with us and haven as feeder clubs into it, this gives the local youth payers a true pathway and also builds a local infrastructure similar to the NRL clubs with their junior leagues etc.. the biggest thing though is what level Town and Haven would be playing at, and with the RFL seemingly having no idea what to do with the lower leagues this could be a significant blocker.

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If the proposed takeover at Whitehaven is back on, then as a Haven fan I would be very concerned for the following reasons:

Who in their right mind would take over a club losing money on a weekly basis with no way of generating non-rugby related revenue on a big enough scale to supplement their losses.

Who would take over a club with no saleable assets in case it all goes horribly wrong?

How are they going to fund the creation of an Academy and Reserve side when they can't afford a squad of 25 players?

If Haven owned their ground, then I could 'sort of' see the logic in buying the club, but as they don't, there are no assets, and no bank will lend money without assets to secure against a loan, so this consortium must be cash rich which rings alarm bells with me!

I wish the club and their supporters well, but at the same time I would be very worried

 

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