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Having relatives in Australia and Canada and visiting both countries, I'd say the two countries are oceans apart culturally. I just wanted to clear that one up.

As for the negative reaction to NA teams by some here, they are a tiny minority which is also very vocal. They do not reflect what most want and understand the game desperately needs. 

Edited by RayCee
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1 hour ago, ojx said:

Agree, if they are not allowed in, then Toronto should play in the Championship Shield, otherwise the qualifiers will be a mess. They have to let teams know in the next week. Otherwise it will be a complete mess.

That’s the worst idea I can think of. Toronto crowds would be SO excited to go see 4 of the bottom 7 teams visit again!

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The funny thing is, those so absolutely desperate for SL to block Toronto's entrance in to SL are the same ones going absolutely ape scat at the idea of SL taking more control of its destiny and putting any criteria on promotion and relegation. 

One might be tempted to say that their complaint is less that SL is pulling up the drawbridge and more that their team might be one of those left out. 

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3 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

Have a week still, need to be told before the end of round 23 i believe.

We will be allowed in if we earn our way on field no doubt and likely hear what the to do's are for the organization as well.

in the end its a team that's looking to win and get people playing rugby, the owner ins't in this for the money but is running it like a business that should...ie self sustaining at some point.


 

1 hour ago, ojx said:

Agree, if they are not allowed in, then Toronto should play in the Championship Shield, otherwise the qualifiers will be a mess. They have to let teams know in the next week. Otherwise it will be a complete mess.

Looking at the Rugby League rules on grounds it mentions a date of the ground being up to standard of 27th July of this season. There are rules to handle exceptions as well. Not sure what the date would be if the decision was not based on ground. The rules also say (again related to grounds), that if a team was not allowed to be promoted due to their ground not being up to standard they could still take part in the qualifiers, but could not be placed higher than 6th.

See http://www.rugby-league.com/operational-rules-2018/#p=18

Enjoy

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1 hour ago, Medway Bear said:


 

Looking at the Rugby League rules on grounds it mentions a date of the ground being up to standard of 27th July of this season. There are rules to handle exceptions as well. Not sure what the date would be if the decision was not based on ground. The rules also say (again related to grounds), that if a team was not allowed to be promoted due to their ground not being up to standard they could still take part in the qualifiers, but could not be placed higher than 6th.

See http://www.rugby-league.com/operational-rules-2018/#p=18

Enjoy

So if they did finish above 6th in the qualifiers, they would be assigned to the 6th position anyway.

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16 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Criteria hasn't been set. Criteria isn't set by lenegan or SL. He has invited the entire premise. It is all completely and entirely made up. It's not only a premise that is entirely made up, it's a premise that even if it were true is still utter nonsense. Lenegan is publicly in favour of the admission of Toulouse and Toronto. He has publicly stated he sees them being in and new York within 5 years. So the premise that lenegan would decide who is admitted to SL is false. 

Here's the quote:- 

“Lenagan, speaking to the Illawarra Mercury, said that the innovation Super League is currently bringing to the table means the expansion of the competition is merely going to grow and grow in the coming years. “Super League will be an international competition in five years’ time,” Lenagan said. “I believe at that time, as well as the English clubs, we’ll have Toulouse, Perpignan, Toronto, New York. Lenegan insists that if the NRL continue to delay Perth, Super League may well try and lure them (Perth) into Superleague”

The fuller quote I provide reveals this was just a wind-up to garner publicity before the Wigan-Hull game and was designed to taunt the NRL for being so insular that Lenegan said he was even going to invite Perth into Superleague.!!!!

You have deliberately missed that out as it really gives the game away that Lenegan was Aussie bashing via the media to sell tickets, and not openly planning Superleague's 2021 line up with  journalists from the Illawara Mercury!!   Let's have a sensible discussion.

16 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

You realize by having a League of only 12, you've essentially limited the number of players that can actually play the game at the highest level?  Aka access the best athletic training, receive the best coaching, get paid an actual living wage to play the game?The number of quality players won't grow unless the number of full time professional sides expands.  

This is a clumsy way to try to say the SL quality players are actually there it’s just that they need to be in a full time scenario to achieve that quality. This is not true at all. In 2014 we had 14 full time professional squads in Superleague and the quality of the three bottom clubs was so poor we had to cut the league to 12 clubs and even consider cutting it to 10 clubs, which has again resurfaced recently.

These threads go in circles because of the inability of people to just accept that two years into the TWP project there is absolutely no sign of any Canadian SL player development or Canadian TV money, and no sign that either will ever appear. It's no good forever sniping at me, people need to deal with these glaring facts. 

TWP could have kept their North American players they had in year one and tried to add a couple more this year, and looked to find some talent from NA by holding more trials, and accepted a mid table Championship finish. Instead Argyle turned them into an "English team in an English league" in a bid to get an SL place for himself, which is the exact criticism that is the basis of their likely rejection from SL Try to deal with this guys, not me!!

Edited by The Parksider
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I find the post above very ironic. Parky having a go at someone for something he does in nearly every post. Repeating and lapping up the same 3 quotes ad neuseam. The Grown Up thing to do is to have the ability to take on board the opinions of other people.

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6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Here's the quote:- 

“Lenagan, speaking to the Illawarra Mercury, said that the innovation Super League is currently bringing to the table means the expansion of the competition is merely going to grow and grow in the coming years. “Super League will be an international competition in five years’ time,” Lenagan said. “I believe at that time, as well as the English clubs, we’ll have Toulouse, Perpignan, Toronto, New York. Lenegan insists that if the NRL continue to delay Perth, Super League may well try and lure them (Perth) into Superleague”

The fuller quote I provide reveals this was just a wind-up to garner publicity before the Wigan-Hull game and was designed to taunt the NRL for being so insular that Lenegan said he was even going to invite Perth into Superleague.!!!!

You have deliberately missed that out as it really gives the game away that Lenegan was Aussie bashing via the media to sell tickets, and not openly planning Superleague's 2021 line up with  journalists from the Illawara Mercury!!   Let's have a sensible discussion.

Stop lying you mendacious troll.

"Toronto and David Argyle are a well-managed operation,” Lenagan answers, without getting into contactual specifics.

“If they get promoted into Super League, there’s no negatives from our viewpoint".

 

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Stop lying you mendacious troll.

"Toronto and David Argyle are a well-managed operation,” Lenagan answers, without getting into contactual specifics.

“If they get promoted into Super League, there’s no negatives from our viewpoint".

 

Yes, but clearly a quote about Perth is more important when discussing whether Toronto will be in SL.

The growing number of posters suggesting Parky is only dealing in facts is odd. It seems fake news is just lapped up these days. 

Edited by Dave T
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5 hours ago, Omott91 said:

I find the post above very ironic. Parky having a go at someone for something he does in nearly every post. Repeating and lapping up the same 3 quotes ad neuseam. The Grown Up thing to do is to have the ability to take on board the opinions of other people.

Even if those opinions do not accept reality,

Fact 1, irrespective of whether it is Toronto or Tolouse or St Helen's or Wigan, the cold hard fact is that here in the UK we cannot produce enough quality players to satisfy just 12 clubs in our elite competition, do you want evidence, ask yourself why is their a necessity to sign 70 plus antipodeans and south sea islanders, 95% of whom are surplus to requirement to the NRL.

Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent.

Fact 3, Mr Perez DID shout loudly about the ease it would be to tap into the vast numbers of ready made available athletes being, big, strong, fast and skilfull who would be very very suitable to make an easy transition to play Rugby League. I remember only to well the links many posted on these pages lauding the 'auditions' in various and different localities for these 'supreme athletes' to exhibit their suitability to make the transition from the North American variation of Football, to Rugby League, obviously the TWP performance directors opinions differed on actuallities set before them, from those that the interpretations of Mr Perez and a large number of TRL followers had.

Fact 4, as with anything 'organic' there is an evolution process, which has to be seeded, fed, and nurtured to reach fruition, Rugby League is no different it will function by those very same laws of nature, to produce SL quality player's in Canada (never mind just Toronto) within their own means from the junior's to youth to open age to professional, starting today would take conservatively 3 generations at least, it is absolutely laughable when people say 10 years or so to transform the present youngsters to top performing professionals, leagues need to formed, pathways with representative teams for the elite will be required to measure progress, it is without question it takes large numbers of participants and progression methods to produce 1 SL quality player in this country even though we as a sport have completed that evolution process, what makes any one believe that Canada can 'fast track' nature it doesn't happen albeit every now and again a 'freak of nature' may emerge, but as we all know that is the exception not the rule.

If 'expansion' of this great game is soley down to formulating teams in virgin territories and intorducing a new audience then TWP has unequivocally achevied that expansion process up to now. If 'expansion' means getting more, especially participants involved in the game and adding to the player pool then they have got a very, very long way to go, for  the reasons that are of my opinion which I have mentioned above, it will be years away.

So, will TWP be commercially acceptable to SL, enough to allow them to be promoted, I don't honestly know, I don't think there would be as much a problem with Tolouse, they have a 80 year history and an infrastructure, it may require a 'good meal' to beef it up but it is alive and kicking, if Canada had just 20% of France's background there would not be a problem, there would be something to work on.

If TWP do get promoted - and I am not saying for one minute that they would not have earned it - then they should in my opinion be used as a test case before further clubs are allowed into the English league, the whole concept of teams being placed in the North American continent, should be evaluated by what TWP does right and also what if anything it does wrong or is of detriment to the game in England, but Mr Perez did say for the exercise to function as he imagines it should and to be a commercial success it would require at least 5 NA clubs in SL, that to me would be a massive risk without firstly evaluating the whole process though TWP's expieriences over a few years.

Just a thought!

 

 

 

Edited by Harry Stottle
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26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, but clearly a quote about Perth is more important when discussing whether Toronto will be in SL.

The growing number of posters suggesting Parky is only dealing in facts is odd. It seems fake news is just lapped up these days. 

You have far to much 'grey matter' between your lugholes David to believe what you just wrote.

PS as for the guy you are quoting I only see what he writes when someones references him, he went on ignore a long time ago.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, but clearly a quote about Perth is more important when discussing whether Toronto will be in SL.

The growing number of posters suggesting Parky is only dealing in facts is odd. It seems fake news is just lapped up these days. 

Of course Toronto will be in SL in reality means "Ha you Aussies are backward go see Wigan v hull"

There is an interview that lenegan did with Steve mascord solely about the t.v. rights issue. Read it and it explains how utterly irrelevant the Toronto tv issue is right now and how lenegan still sees the opportunity in NA

Its so conclusive it's almost a direct repudiation of parky.

 

Edited by scotchy1

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37 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Even if those opinions do not accept reality,

Fact 1, irrespective of whether it is Toronto or Tolouse or St Helen's or Wigan, the cold hard fact is that here in the UK we cannot produce enough quality players to satisfy just 12 clubs in our elite competition, do you want evidence, ask yourself why is their a necessity to sign 70 plus antipodeans and south sea islanders, 95% of whom are surplus to requirement to the NRL.

Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent.

Fact 3, Mr Perez DID shout loudly about the ease it would be to tap into the vast numbers of ready made available athletes being, big, strong, fast and skilfull who would be very very suitable to make an easy transition to play Rugby League. I remember only to well the links many posted on these pages lauding the 'auditions' in various and different localities for these 'supreme athletes' to exhibit their suitability to make the transition from the North American variation of Football, to Rugby League, obviously the TWP performance directors opinions differed on actuallities set before them, from those that the interpretations of Mr Perez and a large number of TRL followers had.

Fact 4, as with anything 'organic' there is an evolution process, which has to be seeded, fed, and nurtured to reach fruition, Rugby League is no different it will function by those very same laws of nature, to produce SL quality player's in Canada (never mind just Toronto) within their own means from the junior's to youth to open age to professional, starting today would take conservatively 3 generations at least, it is absolutely laughable when people say 10 years or so to transform the present youngsters to top performing professionals, leagues need to formed, pathways with representative teams for the elite will be required to measure progress, it is without question it takes large numbers of participants and progression methods to produce 1 SL quality player in this country even though we as a sport have completed that evolution process, what makes any one believe that Canada can 'fast track' nature it doesn't happen albeit every now and again a 'freak of nature' may emerge, but as we all know that is the exception not the rule.

If 'expansion' of this great game is soley down to formulating teams in virgin territories and intorducing a new audience then TWP has unequivocally achevied that expansion process up to now. If 'expansion' means getting more, especially participants involved in the game and adding to the player pool then they have got a very, very long way to go, for  the reasons that are of my opinion which I have mentioned above, it will be years away.

So, will TWP be commercially acceptable to SL, enough to allow them to be promoted, I don't honestly know, I don't think there would be as much a problem with Tolouse, they have a 80 year history and an infrastructure, it may require a 'good meal' to beef it up but it is alive and kicking, if Canada had just 20% of France's background there would not be a problem, there would be something to work on.

If TWP do get promoted - and I am not saying for one minute that they would not have earned it - then they should in my opinion be used as a test case before further clubs are allowed into the English league, the whole concept of teams being placed in the North American continent, should be evaluated by what TWP does right and also what if anything it does wrong or is of detriment to the game in England, but Mr Perez did say for the exercise to function as he imagines it should and to be a commercial success it would require at least 5 NA clubs in SL, that to me would be a massive risk without firstly evaluating the whole process though TWP's expieriences over a few years.

Just a thought!

 

 

 

Fact 2 is factually incorrect. Fact.

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34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Even if those opinions do not accept reality,

Fact 1, irrespective of whether it is Toronto or Tolouse or St Helen's or Wigan, the cold hard fact is that here in the UK we cannot produce enough quality players to satisfy just 12 clubs in our elite competition, do you want evidence, ask yourself why is their a necessity to sign 70 plus antipodeans and south sea islanders, 95% of whom are surplus to requirement to the NRL.

Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent.

Fact 3, Mr Perez DID shout loudly about the ease it would be to tap into the vast numbers of ready made available athletes being, big, strong, fast and skilfull who would be very very suitable to make an easy transition to play Rugby League. I remember only to well the links many posted on these pages lauding the 'auditions' in various and different localities for these 'supreme athletes' to exhibit their suitability to make the transition from the North American variation of Football, to Rugby League, obviously the TWP performance directors opinions differed on actuallities set before them, from those that the interpretations of Mr Perez and a large number of TRL followers had.

Fact 4, as with anything 'organic' there is an evolution process, which has to be seeded, fed, and nurtured to reach fruition, Rugby League is no different it will function by those very same laws of nature, to produce SL quality player's in Canada (never mind just Toronto) within their own means from the junior's to youth to open age to professional, starting today would take conservatively 3 generations at least, it is absolutely laughable when people say 10 years or so to transform the present youngsters to top performing professionals, leagues need to formed, pathways with representative teams for the elite will be required to measure progress, it is without question it takes large numbers of participants and progression methods to produce 1 SL quality player in this country even though we as a sport have completed that evolution process, what makes any one believe that Canada can 'fast track' nature it doesn't happen albeit every now and again a 'freak of nature' may emerge, but as we all know that is the exception not the rule.

If 'expansion' of this great game is soley down to formulating teams in virgin territories and intorducing a new audience then TWP has unequivocally achevied that expansion process up to now. If 'expansion' means getting more, especially participants involved in the game and adding to the player pool then they have got a very, very long way to go, for  the reasons that are of my opinion which I have mentioned above, it will be years away.

So, will TWP be commercially acceptable to SL, enough to allow them to be promoted, I don't honestly know, I don't think there would be as much a problem with Tolouse, they have a 80 year history and an infrastructure, it may require a 'good meal' to beef it up but it is alive and kicking, if Canada had just 20% of France's background there would not be a problem, there would be something to work on.

If TWP do get promoted - and I am not saying for one minute that they would not have earned it - then they should in my opinion be used as a test case before further clubs are allowed into the English league, the whole concept of teams being placed in the North American continent, should be evaluated by what TWP does right and also what if anything it does wrong or is of detriment to the game in England, but Mr Perez did say for the exercise to function as he imagines it should and to be a commercial success it would require at least 5 NA clubs in SL, that to me would be a massive risk without firstly evaluating the whole process though TWP's expieriences over a few years.

Just a thought!

I rarely bother with these thread, as it is a few posters who would fail the Turing test unthinkingly posting the same stuff at each other.  Parksider is clearly the worst. 

Super League has problems and is based on a media deal based on the 90's.  Neither side think everything in rosey.  Just as media is going international and society is broadly going more international, the sport might have to do the same.  But, that would risk the health of the sport in places like Leigh and that would be a significant loss.

So, is the sport viable sticking to something that has after all worked in the past, and if it does decide to leap forward, where are things going and how can it be done correctly?  Because guessing it wrong would be a serious mistake.

Such a conversation requires thought and acceptance of nuance.  It is dragged into dross on this forum by a few shouters on either side who have never dealt with actually trying to implement anything in real life.  And, for this, Parksider is by far the worst.

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1 minute ago, Manx RL said:

Fact 2 is factually incorrect. Fact.

Really, we must have read differing articles, both in weekly publications, and on this site.

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really, we must have read differing articles, both in weekly publications, and on this site.

"Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent."

They are a largely English staff, play in an English league and English training base.  On the other hand, they have an Australian owner, a Canadian founder, a largely Canadian fanbase and Candian home match venue.  That does not mean "in every sense". 

If a team want to compete with professionals, they will right now have to employ English and Australians.

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2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I rarely bother with these thread, as it is a few posters who would fail the Turing test unthinkingly posting the same stuff at each other.  Parksider is clearly the worst. 

Super League has problems and is based on a media deal based on the 90's.  Neither side think everything in rosey.  Just as media is going international and society is broadly going more international, the sport might have to do the same.  But, that would risk the health of the sport in places like Leigh and that would be a significant loss.

So, is the sport viable sticking to something that has after all worked in the past, and if it does decide to leap forward, where are things going and how can it be done correctly?  Because guessing it wrong would be a serious mistake.

Such a conversation requires thought and acceptance of nuance.  It is dragged into dross on this forum by a few shouters on either side who have never dealt with actually trying to implement anything in real life.  And, for this, Parksider is by far the worst.

As I said Bob, it is my opinion of the state of play as I see it, I am not being influenced by anybody, it is derived from how I percieve the excersize to be, I appreciate that the  planet is shrinking, and so to is the game of Rugby League in this country, we cannot afford to exchange localities were players are produced to areas in numbers that will not be adding to the player pool for a very long time.

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3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

"Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent."

They are a largely English staff, play in an English league and English training base.  On the other hand, they have an Australian owner, a Canadian founder, a largely Canadian fanbase and Candian home match venue.  That does not mean "in every sense". 

If a team want to compete with professionals, they will right now have to employ English and Australians.

Split hairs if you wish Bob that is your prerogative, I conceeded the fact that if expansion is just about attracting a new audience TWP have aheived that, somehow I do believe you knew what I meant.

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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Split hairs if you wish Bob that is your prerogative, I conceeded the fact that if expansion is just about attracting a new audience TWP have aheived that, somehow I do believe you knew what I meant.

Indeed.

I was holding you to a higher standard than on I hold most on here too.

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Why do people think Argyle is the sole owner of Toronto? They have numerous benefactors, he just gets all the credit for some reason. 

As for them being an English team, well their three major sponsors are Canadian, how many English clubs have that? 

As for the moaning and sniping at them, don't worry Wolfpack fans, we Broncos fans have had to put up with it since inception. They don't want us to exist, but are happy to take our youth products though. 

Edited by londonrlfan
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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

You have far to much 'grey matter' between your lugholes David to believe what you just wrote.

PS as for the guy you are quoting I only see what he writes when someones references him, he went on ignore a long time ago.

Don't worry, I'll quote him a touch more, don't want you missing out!

 

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Even if those opinions do not accept reality,

Fact 1, irrespective of whether it is Toronto or Tolouse or St Helen's or Wigan, the cold hard fact is that here in the UK we cannot produce enough quality players to satisfy just 12 clubs in our elite competition, do you want evidence, ask yourself why is their a necessity to sign 70 plus antipodeans and south sea islanders, 95% of whom are surplus to requirement to the NRL.

Fact 2, Toronto are an English team in every sense, they play in the English league, they have English coaches and they adopt the very same methods as any other English club in that they employ European and Southern Hemisphere players, in fact, the players still reside in England, the glaring difference is they have a 'base' on another continent.

Fact 3, Mr Perez DID shout loudly about the ease it would be to tap into the vast numbers of ready made available athletes being, big, strong, fast and skilfull who would be very very suitable to make an easy transition to play Rugby League. I remember only to well the links many posted on these pages lauding the 'auditions' in various and different localities for these 'supreme athletes' to exhibit their suitability to make the transition from the North American variation of Football, to Rugby League, obviously the TWP performance directors opinions differed on actuallities set before them, from those that the interpretations of Mr Perez and a large number of TRL followers had.

Fact 4, as with anything 'organic' there is an evolution process, which has to be seeded, fed, and nurtured to reach fruition, Rugby League is no different it will function by those very same laws of nature, to produce SL quality player's in Canada (never mind just Toronto) within their own means from the junior's to youth to open age to professional, starting today would take conservatively 3 generations at least, it is absolutely laughable when people say 10 years or so to transform the present youngsters to top performing professionals, leagues need to formed, pathways with representative teams for the elite will be required to measure progress, it is without question it takes large numbers of participants and progression methods to produce 1 SL quality player in this country even though we as a sport have completed that evolution process, what makes any one believe that Canada can 'fast track' nature it doesn't happen albeit every now and again a 'freak of nature' may emerge, but as we all know that is the exception not the rule.

If 'expansion' of this great game is soley down to formulating teams in virgin territories and intorducing a new audience then TWP has unequivocally achevied that expansion process up to now. If 'expansion' means getting more, especially participants involved in the game and adding to the player pool then they have got a very, very long way to go, for  the reasons that are of my opinion which I have mentioned above, it will be years away.

So, will TWP be commercially acceptable to SL, enough to allow them to be promoted, I don't honestly know, I don't think there would be as much a problem with Tolouse, they have a 80 year history and an infrastructure, it may require a 'good meal' to beef it up but it is alive and kicking, if Canada had just 20% of France's background there would not be a problem, there would be something to work on.

If TWP do get promoted - and I am not saying for one minute that they would not have earned it - then they should in my opinion be used as a test case before further clubs are allowed into the English league, the whole concept of teams being placed in the North American continent, should be evaluated by what TWP does right and also what if anything it does wrong or is of detriment to the game in England, but Mr Perez did say for the exercise to function as he imagines it should and to be a commercial success it would require at least 5 NA clubs in SL, that to me would be a massive risk without firstly evaluating the whole process though TWP's expieriences over a few years.

Just a thought!

 

 

 

Fact 1 - What is the obsession with this 'fact'? Name me a sport in the country that has 100% local players. Why do you insist on holding us to standards that other sports are not held to? It is weird. Sports clubs all over the world sign players from all over the world. It's not the big deal made out.

Fact 2 - it is just a nonsense 'fact'. They play in Toronto, have a fanbase in Toronto, have sponsors from Toronto. They are a Toronto team. These are not local representative teams, they are a team spending millions of pounds a year to setup a club and getting together a winning team. I'm not bothered where their players have come from in year 2.

Fact 3 - people pick and choose which quotes suit. So I'll have a go at that:

Our long-term goal is to organically grow the sport in Canada and the U.S. and see Touch Rugby (based on Rugby League code) grow in the elementary and high school levels

This was in an interview about team goals back in 2016.  https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2016/05/06/People-and-Pop-Culture/Hangin-With.aspx

Surely you aren't so wet to expect athletes from other sports to flock to RL within 18 months of their first game?

Fact 4 - I agree with this. But a lot can happen in 10 years. If in 10 years TWP are still around, playing in SL, competing for trophies, signing big names, getting crowds, getting sponsors, then that is growth, and I'm not sure how it is bad for the game. Most people accept that player development will take a while, in fact, that is what people have an issue with Parky over - he keeps stating that they haven't done it yet - 18m in!

THe last few paragraphs of your post I agree with, and I think many do tbh, but that is very different to Parky's position.

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The thing about the youth products argument is it is used because of its circularity.

Toronto shouldn't be allowed in to SL because they don't produce players, they don't produce players because the game has no profile in Canada. The game has no profile because there is no professional involvement. There is no professional involvement because Toronto aren't in SL. Toronto shouldn't be allowed in to SL because they don't produce players. 

It's not an argument that has any logic or basis in reality behind it. It's a hurdle invented so that they can always argue against Toronto getting in. 

The hypocrisy of this argument is verging on the trumpian. Becuase this argument from parkys alter ego Harry is not applied in anyway shape or form to Leigh. To him It was right Leigh were promoted despite not running an academy. It is right that Leigh can be promoted with next to no Leigh youth products. It is wrong to expect Leigh yo have a functioning development system before they are promoted. And if they do ever have a functioning youth development system it isn't one bringing through new players. It's One, to paraphrase his own words of them trying like hell to hold on to players who would simply come through at the multiple other SL clubs in their area.

It will be funny to see when the penny finally drops that their argument against Toronto is in fact and argument that the game needs Toronto and a strong argument against their own club.

Edited by scotchy1
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31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Split hairs if you wish Bob that is your prerogative, I conceeded the fact that if expansion is just about attracting a new audience TWP have aheived that, somehow I do believe you knew what I meant.

I don't think you can make provocative statements like "Toronto are an English tem in every sense" and then complain when people pull you on that. 

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33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think you can make provocative statements like "Toronto are an English tem in every sense" and then complain when people pull you on that. 

Fair comment perhaps I should have phrased it somewhat differently, but apart from the obvious re locallity, fans, owners and sponsers, in which every team is unique in that sense, how do they differ in their applications and methods from any other English club?

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