Dragons fume over Hunts demotion

[The Future is League]

https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/state-of-origin/the-dragons-have-come-out-in-support-of-halfback-ben-hunt-who-they-feel-has-been-made-a-scapegoat-for-the-maroons-series-defeat/news-story/0d98cb206c315368327c3575447f9dfe

[Dunbar]

I don't know about scapegoat but I don't think Hunt should have any complaints about dropping out of the half backs as he hasn't had a great series so far.  To be honest, I think Daly Cherry-Evans is the better player anyway and probably should have been in the team despite the relatively poor form of Manly this year.

While we are on the subject of State of Origin, it looks like Boyd Cordner has both a concussion and a calf strain to worry about before Origin 3... https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/07/02/state-of-origin-iii-nsw-blues-captain-boyd-cordner-says-his-calf-muscle-is-all-good/

What I don't understand is why the Roosters are happy for Cordner to play in the dead rubber Origin 3 rather than take some rest and be good for their next game.

When a fully fit Shaun Johnson and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck said they were not going to Denver the match commentators said that this was probably the right decision as the club comes first and yet now Cordner is rushing to be fit for a game that has no bearing in the series outcome.  Doesn't make sense.

[Davo5]

He's lucky to make the bench after his performance in Game 2.

[DavidM]

I don’t know . Walters defended and defended him and said he saw no reason why he wouldn’t continue then dumped him for someone who’s done way less this season . Smacks of change for making a change , and scapegoating to those  saying it as he’s pretty much the only one . Maybe the way he’s gone about it is the bitter pill , like he’s not been totally straight since game two 

[MrPosh]

Surely the Dragons will be delighted - he won't have to recuperate after the flight home.

[DavidM]

Not convinced by Walters tbh

[DoubleD]

14 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Not convinced by Walters tbh

He was terrible in Perpignan 

[Damien]

10 hours ago, DavidM said:

Not convinced by Walters tbh

Yeah its hard to know but I suspect he won't last too long in the role. That Queensland team always had so many leaders and outstanding players that the coach was largely irrelevant. Walters really had to do little once Meninga left apart from just keep it going. Now the outstanding players are retiring and leaders are disappearing he will have his work cut out. 

[Farmduck]

I said on another thread that Qld's player stocks are pretty limited. Having way too much spare time, I went through the teams for last round. 272 players took the field, of whom only 61 were banana-benders (including the NSW-born ones like Inglis and Thaiday.) When it comes to Origin, some of these players are already on the retirement list - "Storm" Big 3, Jacob Lillyman - some are already Origin rejects - Chris McQueen, who was making only his second visit from the NSW Cup this year, Aiden Guerra - and about 5 of them have played less than 5 NRL games.

There were a few out injured - the Qld Sims bro, Matt Scott, for instance - but, when Origin selections come up, someone will always be injured so that doesn't make the situation look any better.

Apart from The Milf, The Pong, Ash Taylor, Moses Mbye and a couple of others outside the SOO team, we're looking at players like Scott Bolton, Antonio Winterstein, Jason Bukuya, Edrick and Brenko Lee.

Walters' job will definitely be much harder than Mal's.

[ghost crayfish]

Depth is a big issue for us (qld) I agree. Particularly in the forwards. I think Walters is doing an outstanding job. We won last year when we probably shouldn't have - no doubt he out-coached Daley. The end of an era can be hard, but QLD has negotiated it well so far. We snuck an extra year out of our run, but it was always going to end. We've still competed and been right in both games this year, and I thought we were outstanding in game 2 but just couldn't take enough of our chances. The team is evolving after the end of an incredible era. Walters is leading that process really well. Just need to hope the few promising young forwards we have can fulfill their potential!

[Hvy wg]

33 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Depth is a big issue for us (qld) I agree. Particularly in the forwards. I think Walters is doing an outstanding job. We won last year when we probably shouldn't have - no doubt he out-coached Daley. The end of an era can be hard, but QLD has negotiated it well so far. We snuck an extra year out of our run, but it was always going to end. We've still competed and been right in both games this year, and I thought we were outstanding in game 2 but just couldn't take enough of our chances. The team is evolving after the end of an incredible era. Walters is leading that process really well. Just need to hope the few promising young forwards we have can fulfill their potential!

Walters is terrible at managing players. He lost the dressing in 3 months up there in Perpignan.

 

[ghost crayfish]

9 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:

Walters is terrible at managing players. He lost the dressing in 3 months up there in Perpignan.

 

That might be true, I have no idea, but the circumstances are totally different. For a start, Perpignan is in France, not Queensland. Culturally, they're pretty different places, with different languages. Walters is a much more experienced coach these days, has worked with a lot of these QLD players for years, and is very well respected as a Brisbane and QLD legend. Origin is also for 6 weeks - not 8 months. Totally different environment. Catalans, meanwhile, have had almost constant player unrest and under-performance under basically every coach bar Robinson - an outstanding coach, and bilingual to boot! So I'd say what happened for Kevvie at Catalans is almost irrelevant to whether he is a good origin coach.

[Allora]

On paper NSW have always had more depth in most positions to choose from. (it has been to NSW detriment in many cases)

Some players that Qld have picked and won a series have never been in contention for a Kangaroo spot.

Qld will have to rebuild, the fact Inglis and Ponga are out will make it harder.

I hope its a great game I was invited to attend by a Customer this afternoon.

 

 

[Allora]

38 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

That might be true, I have no idea, but the circumstances are totally different. For a start, Perpignan is in France, not Queensland. Culturally, they're pretty different places, with different languages. Walters is a much more experienced coach these days, has worked with a lot of these QLD players for years, and is very well respected as a Brisbane and QLD legend. Origin is also for 6 weeks - not 8 months. Totally different environment. Catalans, meanwhile, have had almost constant player unrest and under-performance under basically every coach bar Robinson - an outstanding coach, and bilingual to boot! So I'd say what happened for Kevvie at Catalans is almost irrelevant to whether he is a good origin coach.

I agree.

I briefly met Kevin Walters once at a Broncos game and I found him honest and open about his team (the Broncos were being flogged)

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Hvy wg said:

Walters is terrible at managing players. He lost the dressing in 3 months up there in Perpignan.

 

I would have thought managing 3 months is good going with that motley crew,any coach coming into the Qld hot seat was going to have struggles given the quality of players they have lost/about to lose and if the maroons halves had shown a bit more quality and game management they could be sitting at 2-0 up themselves.

[Luckycreed]

If you look at the history of interstate football since they dumped residential for origin it really swings on who has a champion player in the halves.

QLD dominated the early years because we had Wally Lewis, NSW were pretty dominant when Andrew Johns was at his peak

Thurston playing until he was thirty four was the key to this long period of dominance, indeed without him Australia really came back to the field (well England) during last years world cup.

I am not convinced that  either Hunt or Cherry Evans are good enough players to drag a team over the line at this level, they are really good club players but they can',t win you an origin series.

After game three last year I thought Munster might be the man , too early to right him off but he might not be quite what  I was hoping for.I don't see any champion halves at the moment so I don't see either side having a period of dominance until another one arrives on the scene,

Remember the press are always talking players up , but players like Thurston, Lewis, Fittler, Johns you get one or two a  decade.

[DavidM]

8 minutes ago, Luckycreed said:

If you look at the history of interstate football since they dumped residential for origin it really swings on who has a champion player in the halves.

QLD dominated the early years because we had Wally Lewis, NSW were pretty dominant when Andrew Johns was at his peak

Thurston playing until he was thirty four was the key to this long period of dominance, indeed without him Australia really came back to the field (well England) during last years world cup.

I am not convinced that  either Hunt or Cherry Evans are good enough players to drag a team over the line at this level, they are really good club players but they can',t win you an origin series.

After game three last year I thought Munster might be the man , too early to right him off but he might not be quite what  I was hoping for.I don't see any champion halves at the moment so I don't see either side having a period of dominance until another one arrives on the scene,

Remember the press are always talking players up , but players like Thurston, Lewis, Fittler, Johns you get one or two a  decade.

They were all over Brodie Croft a few months back 

[Dunbar]

If Origin dominance requires a great half back then NSW could be set for a good run. In Nathan Cleary they have the next great Australian half, I can't see anybody else coming through the ranks in the NRL to match him.

There are some outstanding outside backs (Latrell Mitchel and Nick Cotric in particular) but the half back talent does look a little thin on the ground.

[DavidM]

I wonder if Ponga will evolve into a 6 , with all the talent at fullback 

[B rad]

First of all I'm not a fan of Walters selections at times (Boyd in for Slater last year .. out of form Milford this year) but in saying that, Hunt had the first crack at half back this year for two games. He gave the Blues a penalty try, kicked out on 3rd tackle when we were pressuring the blues line and didn't direct attack toward the defensive side that was a man down when NSW were down to 12. 

He had a shot, went ok but made some silly mistakes, give someone else a go in the dead rubber. He is still in the team he hasn't been dropped from the side.

I find it funny NSW media are talking about QLDs loyalty to players when the only player missing from game 2 is Inglis and Ponga through injury. Fairly sure Napa is injured as well with his ankle and is still 18th man. A couple of forwards were swapped from run on to bench and vice versa.  

Meanwhile from a winning team Matt Prior has been completely removed from the side for T Sims.

[Luckycreed]

8 hours ago, DavidM said:

I wonder if Ponga will evolve into a 6 , with all the talent at fullback 

Yeh I was going to mention him, but he is playing club football at fullback and once again he has had one good season so a bit early to  get too excited.

I am not convinced  Cleary  is going to be a champion, it was really Maloney who won the series for them Cleary was well contained.

QLD were on top in the forwards for much of game one, we were hitting harder winning the wrestle, coming out of trouble more easily, the game was there for the taking, but Hunt and Munster couldn't ice the cake.With Thurston at anywhere near his best it would have been 1 - 0 QLD and off to Sydney.

Same in Sydney once they were down to twelve, the game was there for the taking,it would have been candy from a baby stuff for Thurston and up 2 -0 instead it is 0 - 2 .As the great  coach Warren Ryan is fond of saying, your halves own the result.

Same with test football unless England can find a Roger Millward  Australia will just grind out hard fought wins until we produce  one and then  start winning big again.

[Farmduck]

9 minutes ago, Luckycreed said:

Yeh I was going to mention him, but he is playing club football at fullback and once again he has had one good season so a bit early to  get too excited.

 

I agree that hype should be tamped down until a player can deliver for a few consecutive seasons but, after Ponga played Origin 2 in the forwards, I'm convinced already.

[ghost crayfish]

Ponga reminds me so much of a young Darren Lockyer, only he's actually a bit better defensively. If injuries stay away, he's going to be the game's next great. I'm less sold on Cleary, though he is a pretty talented and composed young player.

[DavidM]

I think they’re going strong on Cleary as well . Ponga there’s zero doubt , Cleary maybe but need to see more personally 

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, Luckycreed said:

Yeh I was going to mention him, but he is playing club football at fullback and once again he has had one good season so a bit early to  get too excited.

I am not convinced  Cleary  is going to be a champion, it was really Maloney who won the series for them Cleary was well contained.

QLD were on top in the forwards for much of game one, we were hitting harder winning the wrestle, coming out of trouble more easily, the game was there for the taking, but Hunt and Munster couldn't ice the cake.With Thurston at anywhere near his best it would have been 1 - 0 QLD and off to Sydney.

Same in Sydney once they were down to twelve, the game was there for the taking,it would have been candy from a baby stuff for Thurston and up 2 -0 instead it is 0 - 2 .As the great  coach Warren Ryan is fond of saying, your halves own the result.

Same with test football unless England can find a Roger Millward  Australia will just grind out hard fought wins until we produce  one and then  start winning big again.

I agree with the above but I feel compelled to point out that Cleary is still only 20 and by this age Cooper Cronk hadn't even made his NRL debut and so it is a little early to be too judgemental on him.

Throughout his junior career Cleary was the stand out player and he has already played 48 times for Penrith and is quickly becoming their key player.  Everything about him shows that he capable of becoming the next champion half back for Australia.