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I quite liked Elon, he was a bit nuts, but his Tesla and Space X projects are pretty damn cool.

But he seems to be having quite a wobble.

 

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Now, we have to be careful with this sort of thing.  An eccentric billionaire with a love for rocketry, flame throwers and doing innovative stuff with electricity, the last thing you want to do is remove his faith in humanity, that's how Bond villains are created.

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I'm not big on litigation myself and I think the UK has gone way too much like the USA in terms of suing others but on this occasion I'd be 100% behind Unsworth if he sued the ass off Musk.  I'd contribute to any crowdfunding campaign that may be required to fund Mr Unsworth's legal action for defamation of character.

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4 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I'm not big on litigation myself and I think the UK has gone way too much like the USA in terms of suing others but on this occasion I'd be 100% behind Unsworth if he sued the ass off Musk.  I'd contribute to any crowdfunding campaign that may be required to fund Mr Unsworth's legal action for defamation of character.

Yeah, I agree with you. 

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I saw this thread and thought it was about some new aftershave or deodorant.

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Musk has had some success but the veneer has been slipping a little. He's got behind something called the Hyperloop which is another thing that seems like nonsense. 

He seems to have the utmost faith that progress and science will solve all the answers. This big thinking can be admirable but it's bound to result in some terrible ideas. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Musk has had some success but the veneer has been slipping a little. He's got behind something called the Hyperloop which is another thing that seems like nonsense. 

He seems to have the utmost faith that progress and science will solve all the answers. This big thinking can be admirable but it's bound to result in some terrible ideas. 

 

If the hyperloop is nonsense, you'd better tell Richard Branson as well

https://hyperloop-one.com/

 

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34 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

If the hyperloop is nonsense, you'd better tell Richard Branson as well

https://hyperloop-one.com/

Really?

Having read how the London Broncos are doing in Super League, heard Simple Minds, and travelled on Virgin Trains, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

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39 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

If the hyperloop is nonsense, you'd better tell Richard Branson as well

https://hyperloop-one.com/

 

The modern world is full of these big flashy promos that look like the future but actually make little sense when you scratch the surface. Self-filling waterbottles, roads made out of solar panels and artifical gills to name a few. 

The problems with hyperloop are unlikely to be overcome to the point where you have to question why bother.

For instance they have to work out a way to quickly create a vacuum in a large tube, otherwise it will not be feasible as journeys will be few and far between. If they manage this they have to make the tube incredibly secure. One mistake, one fault in the tube and it will be a catastrophe of epic proportions. This is without considering the effect of a natural disaster or as a target for terrorism. 

The idea sounds quite cool but as with so many ends up being something that will almost certainly be a non-starter. 

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25 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Really?

Having read how the London Broncos are doing in Super League, heard Simple Minds, and travelled on Virgin Trains, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

My memory fails me but weren’t London Broncos in the top flight when Branson was involved. Lenegan was involved with the more recently so surely maybe it’s more his fault?

fair point on the others. 

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14 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The modern world is full of these big flashy promos that look like the future but actually make little sense when you scratch the surface. Self-filling waterbottles, roads made out of solar panels and artifical gills to name a few. 

The problems with hyperloop are unlikely to be overcome to the point where you have to question why bother.

For instance they have to work out a way to quickly create a vacuum in a large tube, otherwise it will not be feasible as journeys will be few and far between. If they manage this they have to make the tube incredibly secure. One mistake, one fault in the tube and it will be a catastrophe of epic proportions. This is without considering the effect of a natural disaster or as a target for terrorism. 

The idea sounds quite cool but as with so many ends up being something that will almost certainly be a non-starter. 

A couple of quick things. Firstly it’s only a partial vacuum they need. It needs enough air in the tube for the vehicle to ride on as a cushion which makes things a lot easier. I watched a kids science show with my son (if you’re interested I’ll look up the name but my memory has sucked since I came out of hospital ) where they successful demonstrated it with, essentially sections of drain pipe, a Henry hoover and a vehicle their engineer made himself. The speeds they measured were really quite impressive. While I’m not going to be investing in shares, I saw enough to impress me  

As for catastrophic failures, see airplanes. 

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43 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

A couple of quick things. Firstly it’s only a partial vacuum they need. It needs enough air in the tube for the vehicle to ride on as a cushion which makes things a lot easier. I watched a kids science show with my son (if you’re interested I’ll look up the name but my memory has sucked since I came out of hospital ) where they successful demonstrated it with, essentially sections of drain pipe, a Henry hoover and a vehicle their engineer made himself. The speeds they measured were really quite impressive. While I’m not going to be investing in shares, I saw enough to impress me  

As for catastrophic failures, see airplanes. 

The difference between airplanes is that a failure affects one plane. A failure in the hyperloop and the whole track is down. 

I think it'll be one of those things that just never happens. Costs will ramp up and they'll realise that there are cheaper and less troubled ways of travelling. 

I'll admit I don't know much of Musk has done in the past, I know enough to be shocked by his conduct with the diver but I know little of him personally. What I do know of him since he became well known suggests he's all for big ideas that appear more than a little over ambitious. Take his Mars plans as an example, that's another thing that I just don't think will happen. 

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People said the same about space x. If he only has a 50% strike rate he’s still advancing our tech level. 

 

That said, what he wrote about the diver was bang out of order. I genuinely hope he sues. 

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2 hours ago, RidingPie said:

A couple of quick things. Firstly it’s only a partial vacuum they need. It needs enough air in the tube for the vehicle to ride on as a cushion which makes things a lot easier. I watched a kids science show with my son (if you’re interested I’ll look up the name but my memory has sucked since I came out of hospital ) where they successful demonstrated it with, essentially sections of drain pipe, a Henry hoover and a vehicle their engineer made himself. The speeds they measured were really quite impressive. While I’m not going to be investing in shares, I saw enough to impress me  

As for catastrophic failures, see airplanes. 

“Partial vacuum”? Do you realize you cause physical pain to innocent scientists reading such things!?

:D 

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3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

“Partial vacuum”? Do you realize you cause physical pain to innocent scientists reading such things!?

:D 

No Bob, you've misunderstood.

They only take the air out of the top of the tube.

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2 hours ago, RidingPie said:

As for catastrophic failures, see airplanes. 

Are you American?

If not then it's aeroplanes.  Aeroplanes, not airplanes, si?  Aarrgh

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55 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

“Partial vacuum”? Do you realize you cause physical pain to innocent scientists reading such things!?

:D 

Lower the air pressure! Also it was a tv show so... erm I watched it. I’m trying to remember the show it was on. Definitely bbc. After Dengineers... do all the megastructures stuff. Can’t remember name. 

Anyway apologies of the term partial vacuum instead of lower air pressure cause you or anyone you know physical pain. 

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49 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Are you American?

If not then it's aeroplanes.  Aeroplanes, not airplanes, si?  Aarrgh

It’s autocorrect. It also tries to spell ax and color wrong more often than not and sometimes I can’t be bothered to change them! Sue me! I’m sure Donald would. 

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Most of you are too young to have seen Danny Kaye singing the Kings New Clothes in the 1952 film "Hans Christian Andersen".  I'm prety sure it centres around Musk selling the King a new suite of clothes. 

The hyperloop idea is not new. I remember reading about the idea in "The Scientific American" back in the 1970s, 1980s. 

Musk is just Clive Sinclair at  a much higher price point. Disruptive technology yes, , a PR master manipulator certainly, and as can be seen from his behaviour over his  exploitation of the cave rescue victims and rescuers, a complete Jeremy Hunt. 

If youve been following the Tesla 3 story from the beginning, then you'll know what I mean.

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26 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Most of you are too young to have seen Danny Kaye singing the Kings New Clothes in the 1952 film "Hans Christian Andersen".  I'm prety sure it centres around Musk selling the King a new suite of clothes. 

The hyperloop idea is not new. I remember reading about the idea in "The Scientific American" back in the 1970s, 1980s. 

Musk is just Clive Sinclair at  a much higher price point. Disruptive technology yes, , a PR master manipulator certainly, and as can be seen from his behaviour over his  exploitation of the cave rescue victims and rescuers, a complete Jeremy Hunt. 

If youve been following the Tesla 3 story from the beginning, then you'll know what I mean.

I have not.  Would you fill me in?

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Easy peasy, though if you are employed, ypu might not have enough time to read all about it.

1. Take billions in deposits

2. Again snd again and again make rash  promises about price, performance, delivery.

3. Don't meet any of them.

4. Blame someone else.

5. E.g. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/elon-musk-takes-wrong-turn-with-tesla-model-3-xbq53b3bq

 

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15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Easy peasy, though if you are employed, ypu might not have enough time to read all about it.

1. Take billions in deposits

2. Again snd again and again make rash  promises about price, performance, delivery.

3. Don't meet any of them.

4. Blame someone else.

5. E.g. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/elon-musk-takes-wrong-turn-with-tesla-model-3-xbq53b3bq

 

I get your point on those things but you just have to look at the other stuff he's leading on that really is the right way for the world.  For example, the Tesla cars that are on the market, you can easily get a couple of hundred miles in a luxury electric car and still have spare capacity.  Each generation of his batteries are just that bit more environmentally friendly and he's dragged the mass-market larger scale electric batteries on more in the last few years than they have in decades before.  The aim is to continuously innovate until the grossly polluting and harmful battery technology becomes something that's far more efficient and environmentally friendly than anything transport can otherwise do.

It's that sort of disruptive innovation that the world really needs if we're going to solve our environmental and global warming problems while also retaining the level of luxury and life we're used to having.

If you look at the comparison with the evolution of the internal combustion engine, the electric engine has been smothered at birth every time it looks to be put in more than a milk cart or golf buggy.  Musk is challenging the market enough that mere hybrid cars aren't enough and look distinctly old hat now with their 20-30 miles of electric usage compared to 10 times that in the Tesla.

Same with other stuff he's doing, like the SpaceX stuff, the established wisdom didn't want him to succeed and their smug predictions of failure died with the launch.

I'm much happier with the attitude that he's a disruptor with a heavy aim for the right direction of progress for the world who sometimes gets things wrong.  It'd be a damnably boring world if we got everything right first time.

Also, surely it's better to have people investing billions in positive investments, that sometimes fall flat on their face, than just ramping up shareholder profits on safe investments that give already rich people even more money.

Yes, he's a complete dick of a person and I really wouldn't want him in my circle of friends but the world is a far better place for people like that than an entire City worth of investment bankers.

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Certainly I'm happy for his hero worshipping early adopters and fashionistas  with more money than sense to snag his automotive products at their own expense. Happy also for him to kick the existing manufacturers up the backside, chaĺlenging the status quo. Always up for that, having worked for a large US coropration who owed its very existence to doing just that very successfuly.  Can Musk cross Geoffrey Moore's chasm, though? Does he care? Signs are not good. His "affordable" Tesla 3 indictates he is not. It'll be up to the mainstream manufacturers to bring the EV to the mass market an an affordable price, by which time Musk will have abandoned his customers, concentrating on say, an overpriced solar powered waterless antigravity hot tub. The King is in his altogether, his altogether. .......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm

addendum: happy with Paypal, its charges, its terms and conditions? Thats where Musk made his money at first.

Edited by JohnM

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