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Krzzystuff

Visa issues for Qualifiers

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Well as already discussed on these forums it seems that some clubs are now "shocked" that they will have visa issues for players with criminal records. No official release yet of who's affected and how but i imagine that this will pave the way for the first two Wolfpack games to be played away to give an addition 2+ weeks to get visas over the line, i believe Argyle was offering this to the RFL weeks ago. if Widnes have any issues i'm sorry but no sympathy as they knew how long ago that they were in the qualifiers?

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/twitter-talk-toronto-visa-problems-to-hit-super-league-clubs/

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I feel sorry for Widnes here. 

There's no point us banging on about how SL clubs like Widnes should develop young players from their local area, and then on top of that expect them not to have criminal records. There's only so much they can do.

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The real question should be why are these criminals been given visas to come to the UK anyway, unless they are British of course? I'm tired of NRL troublemakers coming out to hide over here when they've been banned for serious offences, such as domestic violence. No sympathy to anyone with a criminal record because it isn't hard to behave yourself. 

Besides it happens in other sports, Alexis Sanchez was banned from Man Utd's summer tour to the US over a criminal record. 

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In the article there is no mention of Widnes so I am not sure why it is suggested it is they that are complaining.

People with criminal convictions are employed in all walks of life even policing (To a small extent) so in a violent game mainly played by working class lads convictions are hardly a surprise. When a club puts a SL squad together I'm sure no consideration is given to the possibility of playing Toronto away in the 8s (Nor should it). In the Championship we had the crazy position of whoever it was that played Toronto away at Skolars not being subject to this rule whereas other Championship clubs were.

I have no particular sympathy to those with criminal records but firstly anyone can make a mistake and secondly we have the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act that prevents discrimination against those with spent convictions these laws have been relaxed considerably in the last few years and the declaration of such convictions is much less stringent still so a club may have a player with convictions they may not rightly know about but may disbar them from a Canadian Visa.

In regards to the pattern of fixtures then Toronto should follow the same pattern as other clubs in fact in any other sport these fixtures would be predetermined with say 1 V 8 on week one then 5 v 1 on week two etc with only the game day to be decided by the  home club (and Sky)

 

6 month sentence of imprisonment or less is spent in 2 years - First offence for ABH or Burglary for example would get you 6 months or less 90% plus of the time

Community Order spent in 1 year

 

Edited by RS
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Well I new that you needed a visa to play in Canada 2 years ago when Toronto applied to play in the British lower divisions and I don't even run a RL club. Clubs have no excuses here, everyone knows the rules so the Super League clubs just need to get on with it and play their way out of trouble.

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I can think of a star player at Salford & one at Hull KR who may have a problem. Can't think of any Widnes players with a conviction.

I do like how people are banging on about it being unfair to have to travel to Toronto *once* when presumably Toronto will have to travel 3 or 4 times (and maybe again for the MPG?)

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All this will do is make clubs consider it when signing a player, just like NRL clubs would do with Origin prospects etc. 

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54 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

The real question should be why are these criminals been given visas to come to the UK anyway, unless they are British of course? I'm tired of NRL troublemakers coming out to hide over here when they've been banned for serious offences, such as domestic violence. No sympathy to anyone with a criminal record because it isn't hard to behave yourself. 

Besides it happens in other sports, Alexis Sanchez was banned from Man Utd's summer tour to the US over a criminal record. 

TBF we sent all those convicts to Australia in the first place so you can hardly complain about them

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I don't understand why players with convictions are not allowed into Canada to play a game for 80 minutes while under the supervision of the clubs who pay their wages.

They are unlikely to offend in Canada or become fugitives - given the reputation of the police and the fact the police are armed.

Had they been foreigners wanting to be employed,or wanting to reside in Canada,then I could possibly see the point of refusing entry.

The Americans have permitted Eric Cantona and Cheryl Cole/Fernandez Versini to enter, and work, in the USA, after convictions for violence.

   

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5 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I don't understand why players with convictions are not allowed into Canada to play a game for 80 minutes while under the supervision of the clubs who pay their wages.

They are unlikely to offend in Canada or become fugitives - given the reputation of the police and the fact the police are armed.

Had they been foreigners wanting to be employed,or wanting to reside in Canada,then I could possibly see the point of refusing entry.

The Americans have permitted Eric Cantona and Cheryl Cole/Fernandez Versini to enter, and work, in the USA, after convictions for violence.

   

You think Canada will alter their immigration laws because they are only going for a few days. 

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Canadians do not need visas to enter uk. So bit of an unfair playing field. However the 3 championship clubs with them in the qualifiers have already been through the visa applications. But rules are rules. Might need visas to play Catalans after Brexit also!

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2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

You think Canada will alter their immigration laws because they are only going for a few days. 

   Of course not.

  But having convictions isn't the be all and end all of dangerous people in their country.

  They did allow the late Sir Peter Hayman to be a High Commissioner out there.

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Nick Rowan will look after them. Alf Ventress will have tipped him off about any 'wrong-uns'.

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1 hour ago, Krzzystuff said:

Well as already discussed on these forums it seems that some clubs are now "shocked" that they will have visa issues for players with criminal records. No official release yet of who's affected and how but i imagine that this will pave the way for the first two Wolfpack games to be played away to give an addition 2+ weeks to get visas over the line, i believe Argyle was offering this to the RFL weeks ago. if Widnes have any issues i'm sorry but no sympathy as they knew how long ago that they were in the qualifiers?

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/twitter-talk-toronto-visa-problems-to-hit-super-league-clubs/

To be fair, even when it becomes mathematically impossible for both Toronto and one's own team not to be in the middle 8s, said team still won't know whether they play Toronto at home or away until they know exactly what position both teams will finish, and whilst that's already been known for a couple of weeks in the cases of Toronto and Widnes, for some teams it may not be known until after the last game of the reguar season.

It's therefore hard to know whether to have any sympathy for clubs or not without knowing how long Canadian visa applications take to process.

If they can be completed and processed in the time between the last game of the regular season and Toronto's first home game of the middle 8s then I don't see what the problem is, any club failing to do it in time only have themselves to blame.

If however they can't be completed and processed in that time then clubs have every right to feel aggrieved.

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14 minutes ago, Yakkers said:

…..It's therefore hard to know whether to have any sympathy for clubs or not ….

No sympathy from me.  Not that anyone cares what I think......😢😢

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Apply now, just in case. Or at least contact the Canadian embassy to set the wheels in motion, just in case. How difficult/expensive can it be?

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2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

No sympathy from me.  Not that anyone cares what I think......😢😢

Aw bless! I care, John.

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aw shucks....thanks! 🤧 🤸‍♂️😊

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Different tone to the posts on here now that its the SL clubs that may have 'difficulties' with visas

I await a certain poster to get revved up and absolutely launch himself with a tirade against a SL club in the same way he did with Barrow and their similar issues. Maybe not though

One aspect posters seem to forget is that if a player has a record - his team mates may not know about it. Therefore, he has to come clean and be prepared to let his team mates down by not travelling. Some may choose not to and still hope (naively) they get a Visa

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50 minutes ago, kev p said:

Canadians do not need visas to enter uk. So bit of an unfair playing field. However the 3 championship clubs with them in the qualifiers have already been through the visa applications. But rules are rules. Might need visas to play Catalans after Brexit also!

...and Brits are exempt from needing a visa to enter Canada - they do, however, need an electronic Travel Authorisation

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2 minutes ago, tonyXIII said:

Apply now, just in case. Or at least contact the Canadian embassy to set the wheels in motion, just in case. How difficult/expensive can it be?

It depends what information Canadian visas require.

For example, i've been to some countries where as part of the visa application i had to give precise dates of entry and exit, precise entry and exit ports/airports, flight numbers, state where i would be staying for the duration of the visit etc.

If this is the case with Canada then then there isn't really much a club can do before they know the date of their fixture in Toronto, or whether they even have one at all.

On the other hand it may be that Canadian visas do not require such specific details and an application could be put in now for visas that would still be valid whatever the date of the game. Although there would be a cost issue to factor in there, if the prices are roughly similar to visas i've had in the past for other countries (of course they might not be) then for a squad plus backroom staff etc you're probably looking at the best part of £2,000 which is a fair wedge to shell out for something you may subsequently not need.

Anyone know if the clubs have to cover that themselves or was that part of the deal that saw the transport costs etc covered by Toronto?

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I understand why clubs are being caught out by this what with absolutely no one expecting it due to no other clubs having this problem in the past........... 

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Just now, Yakkers said:

It depends what information Canadian visas require.

For example, i've been to some countries where as part of the visa application i had to give precise dates of entry and exit, precise entry and exit ports/airports, flight numbers, state where i would be staying for the duration of the visit etc.

If this is the case with Canada then then there isn't really much a club can do before they know the date of their fixture in Toronto, or whether they even have one at all.

On the other hand it may be that Canadian visas do not require such specific details and an application could be put in now for visas that would still be valid whatever the date of the game. Although there would be a cost issue to factor in there, if the prices are roughly similar to visas i've had in the past for other countries (of course they might not be) then for a squad plus backroom staff etc you're probably looking at the best part of £2,000 which is a fair wedge to shell out for something you may subsequently not need.

Anyone know if the clubs have to cover that themselves or was that part of the deal that saw the transport costs etc covered by Toronto?

If, as mentioned by a previous poster, it's just an electronic travel authorisation you need, then it's probably a lot cheaper and requires a lot less detail

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49 minutes ago, kev p said:

Canadians do not need visas to enter uk. So bit of an unfair playing field. However the 3 championship clubs with them in the qualifiers have already been through the visa applications. But rules are rules. Might need visas to play Catalans after Brexit also!

Yes they do. These aren't travele visas, these are work visas. There are big barriers to us sending young players to the UK to play there to bring their skills up because of the work visas, if they just wanted to go on  a holiday then easy peasy. I don't work in immigration so i don't know which offences get you barred from coming in and what needs to be done to bypass that. Bailey was in Canada during game days last tear for a few weeks before he could play because his work visa was denied...eventually it was approved. 

if we win our way into SL i expect that all clubs would start the visa process for all of their players to make sure there aren't any issues, the visas are valid for 5 years i believe so if they don't get into any new trouble you know they are good to go. if they have issues it gives you time to sort it out and again, no issues. If they are completely barred from working in Canada then you need a bit better background checks put in place for your recruitment strategy.

Also as Mark Wilson mentioned in his tweet TWP can't sign any player they want because some of them wont be allowed to play here so if gives the UK clubs an advantage of being able to sign anyone they want and they will miss them for 1-2 games vs. us.

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