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Kevin Nicholas

Content to be also rans

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This comment by Phildog i hope is only the view of a very small few.

In League 1 there are 14 Clubs of which i think 4 have always been there but 10 Clubs have been at various times relegated. In fact in the Championship we have Barrow, Dewsbury, Swinton,Rochdale, Featherstone, Toulouse( withdrew) and Leigh(saved from drop) who i believe have been relegated. That leaves Fax & London(relegated from SL) and new Club Toronto  and Sheffield( dont think have been in League 1) so i do not see that we have not tried to improve and on occasions even succeeded as a Board over 20years. In that time we have won Transpennine Cup and got promoted in 1998 and avoided relegation since then unlike others. Then-

2010- Northern Rail Cup

2013- Grand Final

2016- Qualifiers

Over last 10 years our league position-

2009-8th out of 11 Thornton/ Harrison

2010-7th/11 Harrison

2011-3rd/11 Harrison

2012-5th/10 Kear

2013-5th/14 Kear

2014-8th/14 Kear

2015-9th/12 Kear

2016-3rd/12 Kear

2017-6th/12 Diskin

2018-7th/12(so far) Diskin

We have constantly competed with Clubs who are full time, have bigger crowds or wealthy owners or Clubs prepared to cheat salary cap/ go bust.

All our coaches have been superb and have worked hard within our budget. Smell the coffee please as we cannot get success each year but we can and do try.

We have had 11 of our squad this year unavailable for many games due to injuries etc or we would have done better. It is not the Coach or indeed players fault whether you like it or not.

Just get behind the coach and team and enjoy the last 7 games of rugby. Also still got places at Transpennine dinner on Friday!!!

Next season will be even harder probably and we will have ups and downs but we will all try not to be also rans i can assure you.

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13 minutes ago, Kevin Nicholas said:

This comment by Phildog i hope is only the view of a very small few.

In League 1 there are 14 Clubs of which i think 4 have always been there but 10 Clubs have been at various times relegated. In fact in the Championship we have Barrow, Dewsbury, Swinton,Rochdale, Featherstone, Toulouse( withdrew) and Leigh(saved from drop) who i believe have been relegated. That leaves Fax & London(relegated from SL) and new Club Toronto  and Sheffield( dont think have been in League 1) so i do not see that we have not tried to improve and on occasions even succeeded as a Board over 20years. In that time we have won Transpennine Cup and got promoted in 1998 and avoided relegation since then unlike others. Then-

2010- Northern Rail Cup

2013- Grand Final

2016- Qualifiers

Over last 10 years our league position-

2009-8th out of 11 Thornton/ Harrison

2010-7th/11 Harrison

2011-3rd/11 Harrison

2012-5th/10 Kear

2013-5th/14 Kear

2014-8th/14 Kear

2015-9th/12 Kear

2016-3rd/12 Kear

2017-6th/12 Diskin

2018-7th/12(so far) Diskin

We have constantly competed with Clubs who are full time, have bigger crowds or wealthy owners or Clubs prepared to cheat salary cap/ go bust.

All our coaches have been superb and have worked hard within our budget. Smell the coffee please as we cannot get success each year but we can and do try.

We have had 11 of our squad this year unavailable for many games due to injuries etc or we would have done better. It is not the Coach or indeed players fault whether you like it or not.

Just get behind the coach and team and enjoy the last 7 games of rugby. Also still got places at Transpennine dinner on Friday!!!

Next season will be even harder probably and we will have ups and downs but we will all try not to be also rans i can assure you.

why is next season going to be harder, is it because of rumours of some players being told there not going to be retained or is it the personality clashes between coach and players, i think alot of fans have also comented on the meeting you had with the players to sort out the so called issues, could you tell us how the meeting went and was things resolved how we hope its going to be, and this isn't being bitchy or any argument, just a realy concerned fan who like most true fans who go to home and away games for many many years wants his club to succeed and not go backwards any more than it is at the moment??

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Just to put things in a little bit of perspective, we are the third highest placed out of 22 part time teams.  Considering our crowd base that's not a bad effort.

 

 

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I think it will probably be harder as the two clubs who appear to be coming up seem to be stronger than those who appear to be going down. 

As for players leaving, of the four mentioned in another thread, I would be sad to see Davey and Rowe go. I would prefer Davey to Leak, and think Rowe has been our best prop this year. My point is that everyone has a different opinion of different players, who we should retain or release. This would include the coach. So bound to be annoyance at rumours like this. However player turnover is a natural part of any club's development - let's see who comes into the club for next season. 

I do agree with one of Phildog'S points, in that l would hope some of the players mentioned do not move sideways as some of them have potential to go further in the game particularly within a full-time environment. 

Edited by distantdog

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Thank you Kevin for the facts and figures, as you know people will make of them what they will.

I hope you took your shoes off to dry after the water hurdle the other day.

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Everybody's concerned, that's the whole point,and the board should be the most concerned, the people who are putting their money, time and skills into prolonging the life of the club, but you can't do that without bums on seats, seats empty as belief falls, surely crowds were better in 2016 with a winning team? As pointed out by myself, StevieB and others, it's clear that relations between the successful squad of 2016 and subsequent coach haven't been any more than cordial and superficial. He has tried, and by and large failed, to introduce a game which isn't Batley's game. We have been famed as a side who could tackle anything, wear teams out, wear them down and then hit them at the end. That game has to be our game; look back over the period of the bonus point and I would venture that we took more bonus points out of games by doing what we were good at. We rarely got belted by anybody, yet now we ship massive points 4 and 5 times a season. Knowing that we are losing at least 2 players, he finds it ok to let go at least 2 more players who more than many have sweated their wotsits off. Pardon us if we're not leaping with joy at the prospects. Why is it that it appears to be my name that gets pulled out when there's the same sentiment being expressed by many?

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You were pulled out of the hat because you said the Board were content to be also rans.

As said the facts are there you make of them what you will or just ignore them and continue as before.

it will be harder next year because Bulls & York look favourites to get promoted and are financially stronger than us and other Clubs assuming we can avoid relegation.

There is nothing that i can say to StevieB that will change his view on Matt. The meeting with players and coaches did not uncover any issues between players and coach but was about winning the Swinton match and we did.

When we sign players we will advise and not before. Everything is in the air at the moment as we do not know the competition structure or money we will receive as distribution next year other than it will be the same as this year or less.( not more).

I can add nothing more.

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22 minutes ago, Kevin Nicholas said:

You were pulled out of the hat because you said the Board were content to be also rans.

As said the facts are there you make of them what you will or just ignore them and continue as before.

it will be harder next year because Bulls & York look favourites to get promoted and are financially stronger than us and other Clubs assuming we can avoid relegation.

There is nothing that i can say to StevieB that will change his view on Matt. The meeting with players and coaches did not uncover any issues between players and coach but was about winning the Swinton match and we did.

When we sign players we will advise and not before. Everything is in the air at the moment as we do not know the competition structure or money we will receive as distribution next year other than it will be the same as this year or less.( not more).

I can add nothing more.

everyone is allowed a point of view kevin, and mine on matt diskin is the same as many many more fans, not just a minority, the lack in attendances is proving that very quickly indeed

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stevieb, the ref to taking his shoes of is that one of his shots went into the water at the golf day and he went in to play the ball.

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As an outsider I'd say that at the end of 2016 you had a great chance to consolidate your position and progress. Unfortunately an, apparent, unwillingness to splash out a bit on one or two quality players (particularly in key positions) has led to your Club seemingly going backwards.

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23 minutes ago, stevieb said:

everyone is allowed a point of view kevin, and mine on matt diskin is the same as many many more fans, not just a minority, the lack in attendances is proving that very quickly indeed

Comment is free on here.

My opinion of Diskin’s record appears similar to yours. Kevin’s views on Diskin’s performance are unknown and not disclosed (his choice and fair enough given his position of responsibility at the club).

In the sweep of recent history this season and last will be seen as an opportunity missed.

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12 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

As an outsider I'd say that at the end of 2016 you had a great chance to consolidate your position and progress. Unfortunately an, apparent, unwillingness to splash out a bit on one or two quality players (particularly in key positions) has led to your Club seemingly going backwards.

I had heard a rumour that we had spoken to Johnathan Ford and Sammut in 2016 (it could be just rumour though), but both wanted £50k+. 

On gates of 1k or just over, is it sustainable to pay that out to one player who could get injured and miss the entire season, as has happened to Ulugia this season at Fev?

Fev have spent lots of money and done very well up to now, whilst never looking like making it to SL, but what will happen in the close season is anyone's guess. Will they be okay and unaffected by finishing outside the top 4, or will we see a fall out a la Leigh by the start of next season? Especially if funding is cut even further.

Then there is the matter of what will happen to the clubs in financial dire straights, like Keighley, Barrow, Rochdale and Swinton etc. A loss in funding to them could be catastrophic and may very well be the end of some, or all of them.  How will that affect the structure?

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6 minutes ago, Dogstew said:

Comment is free on here.

My opinion of Diskin’s record appears similar to yours. Kevin’s views on Diskin’s performance are unknown and not disclosed (his choice and fair enough given his position of responsibility at the club).

In the sweep of recent history this season and last will be seen as an opportunity missed.

100% agree, and ive said before, diskin was a great player but a great player doesnt always make a great coach, i lost total respect for his arrogant attitude when he told fans to F...k off, Harrison, Kear, ward, Story, Thornton would of never of done that, they had respect for fans at end of day were Diskin hasn't

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15 minutes ago, Dogstew said:

 

In the sweep of recent history this season and last will be seen as an opportunity missed.

Is it an opportunity missed though?

Where did you expect us to finish in the league table this season? 

My prediction was 7th pre season, look where we finished the regular season, admittedly I thought we would be closer to 6th in terms of points. As previously stated, Leeds have had a similar injury crisis to us and look how well they have coped with it... 

Sacking the coach seems to have worked well for them...

Just out of interest, how long do you think Sinfield has got before he follows McDermott out of the door?

Is the answer to keep sacking coaches until the team starts winning?

Edited by DOGFATHER
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Everybody is entitled to an opinion but all i was saying was that i cannot change your opinion on Matt so i will leave it at that.

i do not accept that “many” people have that opinion.A few on this forum is not many.

Crowds not great but not staying away in big numbers and they did not go up in big numbers in 2016. There lies the problem to solve.

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9 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said:

I had heard a rumour that we had spoken to Johnathan Ford and Sammut in 2016 (it could be just rumour though), but both wanted £50k+. 

On gates of 1k or just over, is it sustainable to pay that out to one player who could get injured and miss the entire season, as has happened to Ulugia this season at Fev?

Fev have spent lots of money and done very well up to now, whilst never looking like making it to SL, but what will happen in the close season is anyone's guess. Will they be okay and unaffected by finishing outside the top 4, or will we see a fall out a la Leigh by the start of next season? Especially if funding is cut even further.

Then there is the matter of what will happen to the clubs in financial dire straights, like Keighley, Barrow, Rochdale and Swinton etc. A loss in funding to them could be catastrophic and may very well be the end of some, or all of them.  How will that affect the structure?

You got in the region of £500k central funding for 2017.....around £300k more than you got this year and will (almost certainly) get next and very importantly attendances are irrelevant to that difference. That £300k would have covered a £50k 2 year contract comfortably with change to spare. Yes, the player(s) could get injured but that's the nature of sport. By not taking a risk it's more likely that you'll stagnate or go backwards than progress.

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Chances are neither would come on a 1 year deal, then there is the likelihood of you paying that to one player the rest of the squad wanting more money as a knock on effect, so it isn't just the £50k you need to find.

 

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2 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said:

Chances are neither would come on a 1 year deal, then there is the likelihood of you paying that to one player the rest of the squad wanting more money as a knock on effect, so it isn't just the £50k you need to find.

 

Apart from the fact that I said 2 years which would still leave some £200k 'spare'. Sport isn't really about having money in the bank it's about getting folk excited and through the gate. But clearly you're happy with the way things are and that's all that counts.

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The point I was trying to get at is, it isn't just the extra money to pay for a player like Ridyard, it would also be the extra money that the rest of the squad would demand over the same period. 

With a squad of approaching 30 players, £100k a season does not go far, (just over £3k a man per season, if my maths is correct). Would that have been enough to keep the existing squad together and keep the likely interest from other clubs away? Do you think that the players we already had, would all just sign on for the same money as the previous season?

There is also the small matter of the salary cap, which was supposedly being much more tightly monitored and was based upon income this season.

If the RFL follow through with this threat and penalise clubs for breaching it. Where will it leave a club like Fev next season? Your gates are okay, but I'd be very surprised if they will be enough to get you under the cap limits for the players you still have under contract for next season. 

Whilst you are getting the additional funding, you can possibly get under the cap limits, but as soon as you miss out, where is the amount of additional money coming in from to keep you under the limit?

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I don't know why people are getting so hung up over attendance figures.  Look at the other income streams the club has - club sponsorship; stadium sponsorship; match sponsors; shirt sponsors; player sponsors; income from hospitality boxes (must have increased dramatically with the new ones); advertising boards around the ground; sale of replica kit etc.  In todays sport the figure for gate receipts is only a small percentage on the balance sheet.

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I do get your point Fred, but surely attendance figures effect most of the income streams that you mention.

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1 hour ago, fredm said:

I don't know why people are getting so hung up over attendance figures.  Look at the other income streams the club has - club sponsorship; stadium sponsorship; match sponsors; shirt sponsors; player sponsors; income from hospitality boxes (must have increased dramatically with the new ones); advertising boards around the ground; sale of replica kit etc.  In todays sport the figure for gate receipts is only a small percentage on the balance sheet.

100% agree, this season alone we must have more sponsors than we evef had which is fantastic, but do you think them sponsors will stay when teamsgonig backwards

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2 hours ago, fredm said:

I don't know why people are getting so hung up over attendance figures.  Look at the other income streams the club has - club sponsorship; stadium sponsorship; match sponsors; shirt sponsors; player sponsors; income from hospitality boxes (must have increased dramatically with the new ones); advertising boards around the ground; sale of replica kit etc.  In todays sport the figure for gate receipts is only a small percentage on the balance sheet.

Not hung up but clearly it is desirable to have a full stadium rather than an empty one for so many reasons. At a club like ours, the supporter base is a source of a great deal of revenue, from the war chest, Bissa and the half time draw. Equally, having a decent atmosphere adds to the match experience. 

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13 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

You got in the region of £500k central funding for 2017.....around £300k more than you got this year and will (almost certainly) get next and very importantly attendances are irrelevant to that difference. That £300k would have covered a £50k 2 year contract comfortably with change to spare. Yes, the player(s) could get injured but that's the nature of sport. By not taking a risk it's more likely that you'll stagnate or go backwards than progress.

Fev added Ridyard and Holmes, and went backwards.

Leigh added a new squad of highly paid, highly experienced players and went backwards.

?

As Kev has clearly demonstrated above, we consistently over achieve. We are a financial sound club, who own our own ground, that consistently finishes higher than those of similar means. Plus, in the last 10 years there have been 3 outstanding seasons. And ....I think we have the best chairman in rugby league, bar none. :) 

Edited by Lone Drinker
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1 hour ago, Lone Drinker said:

Fev added Ridyard and Holmes, and went backwards.

Leigh added a new squad of highly paid, highly experienced players and went backwards.

?

As Kev has clearly demonstrated above, we consistently over achieve. We are a financial sound club, who own our own ground, that consistently finishes higher than those of similar means. Plus, in the last 10 years there have been 3 outstanding seasons. And ....I think we have the best chairman in rugby league, bar none. :) 

Here’s a positive post that has received 6 likes in an hour. Yet apparently ‘most’ of us are disillusioned, can’t stand Matt Diskin and are going to stop attending matches.  Hhmmmmm. 

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