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graveyard johnny

which leeds players need to be shown the door 1st?

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Lilley clearly has no future at Leeds so why not cut him from the squad rather than stringing him along.  Let him secure his future elsewhere and kick-start his career.

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The thing is you can make an argument for almost everyone in the squad because they have almost all shown something in the past that you could cite as a reason for them to be retained.

It's sorting through them to see who has poor current form, who is sadly past it and who will never make it that's difficult.

In the forwards Singleton, Smith and Oledzki are clearly part of the future. Cuthbertson remains good when used properly.

Ward and Garbutt are having a lot of injuries but they around definite keepers. But we need to think about what we expect from Ward.

JJB, Delaney and Abbo are club legends but at least two should be allowed to go at the end of the season, probably the last two. I'd retain one, probably JJB, for influence in the dressing room if nothing else.

Mullally has gone ok this year and he's an effective back up prop. But he was very much a McDermott project player and i don't know what Sinfield thinks about that.

Peteru we still can't judge yet but will presumably be around next year.

Ormondroyd is rarely seen but presumably that's for a reason.

Walters is a tyrer but even when winning Grand Finals wasn't making a stunning impact. 

Parcell looks to be on the plane already. Dwyer is an ok backup but not first choice.

And then there's Ferres. I so want him to prove everyone wrong but we're into season three now and it's just not happening. He's looking fit again now but remains rather anonymous on the pitch except when he's trying to wind up the opposition. He's a poor man's Ryan Bailey if that's really going to be his role.

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I think Leeds have got it spot on this year.

Take out Ryan Hall and they'll be set up perfectly for next year without any changes.

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43 minutes ago, MrPosh said:

I think Leeds have got it spot on this year.

Take out Ryan Hall and they'll be set up perfectly for next year without any changes.

Top trolling!

I thought Handley looked ok early in the season, But I only watch from a distance.  Injuries should not be ignored, Wigan are still missing loads in the centres and that is knocking on into the second row.  But of course it's one thing to be missing out your top players, it's another if you do not have them in the first place.

I think it was  Peacock on TV who was both telling and also cruel when he thought there were players in the team who were not Leeds quality players. 

I must say though that the comments are rough and harsh on individuals. The club have collectively lost its way in refreshing itself. And the 5th Act in this Shakespearean tragedy has still to unfold. Someone usually falls on his sword.

"I am peppered, I warrant, for this world."

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For me, Leeds haven't had the production line of juniors they have had previously. I think only Oledski and Walker have the makings but needs to cut out the penalties. To answer the OP I think Ablett is a definite. They have to be careful though. Don't forget McDermott dragged most of these to the title last year. Just saying.

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53 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

For me, Leeds haven't had the production line of juniors they have had previously. I think only Oledski and Walker have the makings but needs to cut out the penalties. To answer the OP I think Ablett is a definite. They have to be careful though. Don't forget McDermott dragged most of these to the title last year. Just saying.

and to think gary said this week, they dont need a reserve squad as their academy is pumping out quality players, he's kidding himself lately.

 

Aside from Walker and singleton they aint much cop.  Liam sutcliffe has been heralded as the second coming of sinfield, but they keep shifting him from position to position trying to accomodate him. And he's not much cop.

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Everyone really seems to rate Oledzki, some even talking about him as a definate future international. It makes me wonder if I have missed something that everyone else is seeing.

I see him much the way that I see Masi Matongo for us. Both have the natural attributes to be good props. Both by all accounts have great attitudes, and it will be interesting to see how they develop in the coming years. The other thing they have in common is that they come from unusual places in RL terms, and I wonder if peoples judgement is clouded by that, because they really want to see them succeed. 

At the moment Oledzki is a run of the mill prop who should be getting slowly introduced to the first team alongside quality, experienced guys. If Leeds see him as someone to build the pack around then they might have a problem, because he isnt at that level yet, and we dont currently know if he ever will be.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Top trolling!

I thought Handley looked ok early in the season, But I only watch from a distance.  Injuries should not be ignored, Wigan are still missing loads in the centres and that is knocking on into the second row.  But of course it's one thing to be missing out your top players, it's another if you do not have them in the first place.

I think it was  Peacock on TV who was both telling and also cruel when he thought there were players in the team who were not Leeds quality players. 

I must say though that the comments are rough and harsh on individuals. The club have collectively lost its way in refreshing itself. And the 5th Act in this Shakespearean tragedy has still to unfold. Someone usually falls on his sword.

"I am peppered, I warrant, for this world."

The tumult of drama queens posting on here will appreciate a bit of Shakespeare!

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sell, sell, sell while they are still worth a bit of something, although Hetherington must feel like hes posting a box of cds and dvds  to music magpie so he can put it towards the proceeds towards an amazon echo 

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They need to do something and have a stadium to fill next year.

Time to spend some money and use the 2 £££ places in the cap - I'm assuming Watkins is one but who is the 2nd ?

They have some decent players to offer to other clubs as bait, and the players they go after will have a chance to play for Leeds - after that it's paying a decent wage to get very good players.

 

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Better for Leeds to accept that lean years are ahead and work to unearth their talent.  How many SL titles between Leeds and Bradford?  Both squads built around academy products and cast-off they saw something in that others failed to see? Trying to buy your way our doesn't work., see the Bulls 2003- 2010 and beyond?

Pains me to day it as a Bradford fan but I don't want to see Leeds panic and start blowing money on Orfords, Solomonas, Halls and the like (and yes, Iestyn 'I ate too many pies in Union' bloody Harris)

 

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The thing i have learned from being a Leeds fan, probably more applicable to Leeds than any other clubs with huge peaks and troughs in form we have seen, is that When we are bad, everyone is terrible, but the reality is that when a squad is deficient in one area or a couple of areas it makes good players look terrible. When those issues are fixed those terrible players stand out as great again. 

I remember in 2010 at the beginning of the season leeds lost against Cas, Wakefield, Hudds, Hull KR and Wigan in the first 8 rounds. Keith Senior was past it, rubbish and a liability. And if you watched a lot of game he was dropping a lot of ball, he wasnt making a lot of metres or creating a lot, and defensively we were struggling down that side. But because the pack wasnt making many meters and the team dropping ball in bad position and the kicking game struggling a bit we were defending more than we should, having to attack from deeper than we should, having to chase games and push it, resulting in Senior making more tackles, having to bring the ball out to set defences more, having to try more low percentage plays. When we sorted out our structure he flew and both him and Hall ended up in the dream team.

Leeds problem is that as whole, structurally, the side is miles away and individually there are a lot of players who have talent, that talent isnt gelling, a lot of those players have shown something and a lot of them being cast aside as not good enough, like Senior, will fly in a team that is clicking. 

 

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Myler never has been and never will be an organizing half back, but with one alongside him he can be a very dangerous player. Leeds need to find someone from somewhere to fill that role and also sign a couple of blockbusting forwards ( surprised they didn't sign Ben Murdoch Masila when he left Salford) 

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14 minutes ago, Industria ditat said:

Myler never has been and never will be an organizing half back, but with one alongside him he can be a very dangerous player. Leeds need to find someone from somewhere to fill that role and also sign a couple of blockbusting forwards ( surprised they didn't sign Ben Murdoch Masila when he left Salford) 

myler is one of those players that troubles his own teams defence more than the oppositions - garbage all round

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People bagging Myler haven't watched enough of Leeds this year. He is literally the only creative player in the entire team. If he has an off day, we are doomed. If he plays well, which he has for much of this year, the rest of the team and especially his half back partner are mostly AWOL.

Danny McGuire had a wow of a game in the last Grand Final. The reason he was released was because he had been average, or worse, for large portions of the previous two seasons. Regular season McGuire is no better, in fact I would argue materially worse than, 2018 Myler.

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Earlier on in the season Leeds fans were really singing Mylers praises. Is anyone going to come to his defence now?

I dont often agree with Schofield, but when his signing was announced last year he read out a list of Leeds halves down the years (yes he included himself) and concluded by saying that Myler is not a Leeds half back. I agreed then, and I he hasnt done anything to change that.

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6 minutes ago, M j M said:

People bagging Myler haven't watched enough of Leeds this year. He is literally the only creative player in the entire team. If he has an off day, we are doomed. If he plays well, which he has for much of this year, the rest of the team and especially his half back partner are mostly AWOL.

Danny McGuire had a wow of a game in the last Grand Final. The reason he was released was because he had been average, or worse, for large portions of the previous two seasons. Regular season McGuire is no better, in fact I would argue materially worse than, 2018 Myler.

You posted that as I was typing my above post. I will take your word for it, you watch them week in week out. But I have not seen him have a good game this year.

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Myler didn't play well in the semi final but imo has played well most of the time...

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Myler has been Leeds best player this season (wasnt he top for try assists in the league for quite a while) the other player that has stood out in a quagmire of rubbish is Briscoe, both have show a bit of heart and passion.

 

edited to add Myler is the top of the stats league for try assists  with 23, one more than Barba

Edited by Chrispmartha
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1 hour ago, M j M said:

People bagging Myler haven't watched enough of Leeds this year. He is literally the only creative player in the entire team. If he has an off day, we are doomed. If he plays well, which he has for much of this year, the rest of the team and especially his half back partner are mostly AWOL.

Danny McGuire had a wow of a game in the last Grand Final. The reason he was released was because he had been average, or worse, for large portions of the previous two seasons. Regular season McGuire is no better, in fact I would argue materially worse than, 2018 Myler.

But that’s standard fodder on here.  Bag a player or a coach without any real analysis or solid basis.  

Myler can play, but like any decent halfback, needs a platform and strong running forwards.  Leeds haven’t had that this year.  Catalans had a decent year, the season  before Myler left and he went well.  

From what I’ve seen Leeds forwards just haven’t got the punch they had.  Cuthbertson and Albert were, not now, great from close to the line, now they have to hit it up all the time and that attacking edge they had, has gone.  They haven’t the grunt.

IMO They need 2 young, NRL type tackle machines, another decent prop and a marquee half back.  Those young backs that were promising 2 years ago, don’t become lost causes overnight.  They need some more support.

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14 hours ago, northamptoncougar said:

If you’d have swapped Myler and Maguire this year I honestly think Leeds would be about 5th/6th and pushing for the top 4.

swap Moon and McGuire we probably would. 

One of Leeds problems is that everything HAS to go through Myler so the defence can be pretty confident which side it is going and even if it doesnt the ball stops and slows with Moon so they an easily react to that. 

Im interested in seeing next year what happens with Lolohea and Myler as both are dangerous and creative but neither are know as organising half backs. However you could say the same about Burrow and McGuire and Sinfield from Loose often added a lot of those skills. 

There are two pretty young players at Leeds that have the potential to be a ball playing loose forward in the Sinfield mold, Ward and Sutciffe and they probably couldnt hope for a better player to learn from.

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I was looking at the Super League player stats while reading the George Williams thread and I was surprised to see Richie Myler on top of the try assists for this season. Not bad for a team that everybody accepts has been misfiring this year.

With the right half back partner (which is not Moon) he would be well worth keeping.

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Single players can rack up numbers if they are the only one doing anything though 

 

I was surprised when Leeds signed Myler, I was when Catalan signing him too. Great support runner, but not an organised or creative player I don't think.

That said, in the right team he would be excellent - after all McGuire was little more than a good support player with a nifty step for much of his time at Leeds 

Leeds have got plenty of quality players but have lost all structure, I don't think Sinfield is the answer, I think giving a club legend his first coaching job is never a good plan...

 

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If Myler is not a creative player and he tops the try assists for the year it doesn't say a lot for the rest of Super League's creative talent.

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