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Martyn Sadler

Marwan's fixture proposal

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Playing 6 sides 3 times and 6 sides 2 times boring, too repetitive. 

playing 8 sides 3 times and 4 sides 2 times, with three of them playing for nothing in the last third of the season as they have already qualified. Exciting. 

There are a million and one different options for the fixture format all with their positives and negatives, none of them addressing the actual problems the game faces. All of them attempting to cover cracks with paper. 

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Just cut the points in half at the split and go from there. you still get "rewarded" for your pre 8's success but there is still "hope" for the team in 8th to win it. Playoffs are playoffs. if you make it you should have just as much of a chance of winning it as anyone.

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I actually like that idea. You still get rewarded for your performances in the regular season but it gives teams something to play for in the 8s

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This system produced the most thrilling end to a league season in the sport's history so the article is factually incorrect for starters.

It's not a failure of this system that the top 8s are going to be relatively uncompetitive - it's just a function of league systems. Sometimes they produce amazing tension, sometimes they won't because teams accumulate certain numbers of points which precludes excitement.

You certainly can't retrospectively look at how a league table has ended up and decide that, because of the spread of points and places, an alternative would be better.

Under Koukash's system the top three would have nothing to play for, more than a third of the teams, totally compromising all the fixtures involving them in the middle 8s; that's certainly not the way to go.

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37 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Just cut the points in half at the split and go from there. you still get "rewarded" for your pre 8's success but there is still "hope" for the team in 8th to win it. Playoffs are playoffs. if you make it you should have just as much of a chance of winning it as anyone.

I'd go further and just reset to 0 ala the qualifiers, where the top teams just get the home turf advantage.  Proper second season stuff!

That or have a playoff bracket (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5). Maybe home and away series?  Highest remaining seed always plays the lowest remaining seed (keep the qualifiers for the bottom 4)

Edited by TboneFromTO
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I think there needs to be some reward for final league positions. If all the teams knew that the points were getting halved then once they're safe in the 8s they would still have to make a big push to either put as much daylight between themselves and the teams below or make as much ground as possible on the teams above before the split.

 

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The most exciting end to a season in the sports history didnt happen because of the structure, it happened because of the game. Had leeds put 30pts on Hudds in a comfortable victory nobody would have remembered it as the most exciting end to a season in the sports history. 

Off the top of your head and without checking does anybody remember all the other seasons where the LLS was decided on the final day? 

I couldnt tell you, but i could tell you about the Magic Weekend game where leeds beat bradford in a fantastic game that swung one way and then the other before sinfields kick at goal to draw bounced off the crossbar in to Tanseys hands in a mid-season game that decided nothing. I can remember Saints beating Leeds 10-8 in the qualifying play-off in 2007 that didnt have it all on the line, cant remember the score in the elimination semi-final though. 

Structures arent exciting. Games are. Give me high-quality rugby league, played in good stadiums, with a great match-day experience, played by big name players and you can use whatever system you pull out of your ass. It would be of no relevance

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15 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The most exciting end to a season in the sports history didnt happen because of the structure, it happened because of the game. Had leeds put 30pts on Hudds in a comfortable victory nobody would have remembered it as the most exciting end to a season in the sports history.  

Absolutely - which is why bemoaning the 8s for producing "as much excitement as hoped" is bonkers. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. It's nothing to do with the 8s - but LEx has been against this system since the start so anything to suit that agenda.

There are myriad problems with the 8s alongside its undoubted strengths and these are what should be addressed rather than giving the top three teams seven weeks off.

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23 minutes ago, M j M said:

Absolutely - which is why bemoaning the 8s for producing "as much excitement as hoped" is bonkers. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. It's nothing to do with the 8s - but LEx has been against this system since the start so anything to suit that agenda.

There are myriad problems with the 8s alongside its undoubted strengths and these are what should be addressed rather than giving the top three teams seven weeks off.

The worst mistake the game has ever made was Maurice Watkins deciding the problem was a lack of jeopardy. It wasnt, it was a lack of quality, a poor matchday experience, under-investment, lack visibility  and a lot of other things. 

But because that was used as the justification to sell the 8s its the paradigm the game is stuck in. We are stuck putting more and more lipstick on this pig and can't more away from the idea that more jeopardy will solve all the problems. 

Keep the 8s, scrap the 8s, change the 8s, go to a straight league, go to loop fixtures, change to 2x10, go to conferences, have 25 games, have 30 games, top 4 play-offs, top 6, top8, top 5. Whatever change to the fixture list, the problems the games face wont change. Because we arent addressing them. 

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It's almost, but not quite as a bad as a recent suggestion I saw on RLFANS, which lambasted the RFL for not deciding the play-off structure mid-season to ensure that they can get the most exciting system!

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5 hours ago, M j M said:

This system produced the most thrilling end to a league season in the sport's history so the article is factually incorrect for starters.

It's not a failure of this system that the top 8s are going to be relatively uncompetitive - it's just a function of league systems. Sometimes they produce amazing tension, sometimes they won't because teams accumulate certain numbers of points which precludes excitement.

You certainly can't retrospectively look at how a league table has ended up and decide that, because of the spread of points and places, an alternative would be better.

Under Koukash's system the top three would have nothing to play for, more than a third of the teams, totally compromising all the fixtures involving them in the middle 8s; that's certainly not the way to go.

I assume the most thrilling end to a season in the sport's history was 2015, when Leeds won everything. And of course it was thrilling, particularly for Leeds supporters, which is why, I assume, you liked it so much.

I don't understand the point you make in your last paragraph. How could the top three conceivably have nothing to play for? And how does that compromise the Qualifiers?

The problem we have with the current system is that the Qualifiers are consistently more exciting than the top eight, principally because the Qualifiers clubs all start on zero points.

Koukash's proposal would bring excitement back to the top eight.

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If marwan wanted a say in how the sport was run he'd have stayed on at Salford...

But he didn't...and now just drunk tweets about the RFL...

Bore off you idiot..

Edited by roughyedspud

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5 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I assume the most thrilling end to a season in the sport's history was 2015, when Leeds won everything. And of course it was thrilling, particularly for Leeds supporters, which is why, I assume, you liked it so much.

I don't understand the point you make in your last paragraph. How could the top three conceivably have nothing to play for? And how does that compromise the Qualifiers?

The problem we have with the current system is that the Qualifiers are consistently more exciting than the top eight, principally because the Qualifiers clubs all start on zero points.

Koukash's proposal would bring excitement back to the top eight.

Not even in the same category for thrilling as the 2016 million pound game

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12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

 

Off the top of your head and without checking does anybody remember all the other seasons where the LLS was decided on the final day? 

 

The 2016 Super 8s were also very exciting, with the LLS won only on the last day when three teams could still have won it. Leeds fans won't remember this.

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I read that article twice and I don’t get it in the slightest. There’s people who said the current formats of the eight was too confusing, but that idea is beyond comprehension. 

 

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I like Marwan's idea. If the Super 8s stay I'd run with either that or bonus points based on final regular league standings, from 8pts for first down to 1pt for the last qualifier. 

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It's probably irrelevant anyway as it looks like the 8s aren't going to be around from next season

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Simples, award the league leaders sheild to both the SL and Championship after round 23, the Qualifiers then all start on zero points, BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT COMPETITION, treat the Super 8's in exactly the same way, start them all on zero points for the right for the top two to play at Old Trafford, there is absolutely no need to carry points over, the league leaders will have had their reward at round 23, all clubs in the SL will be ENTERING A DIFFERENT COMPETITION.

All the clubs will have a chance to get to Old Trafford, just think if it was in this season Catalan coukd have an opportunity to "do the double"

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Simples, award the league leaders sheild to both the SL and Championship after round 23, the Qualifiers then all start on zero points, BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT COMPETITION, treat the Super 8's in exactly the same way, start them all on zero points for the right for the top two to play at Old Trafford, there is absolutely no need to carry points over, the league leaders will have had their reward at round 23, all clubs in the SL will be ENTERING A DIFFERENT COMPETITION.

All the clubs will have a chance to get to Old Trafford, just think if it was in this season Catalan coukd have an opportunity to "do the double"

That devalues the first twenty-three games. As long as you’re in the eight in any order come Round 23, you can win the title. The hubcap means nothing when awarded at Round 30, it would hold less creidance at Round 23 as there’s no bonuses to finishing first ahead of the 8’s. 

Edited by Oliver Clothesoff

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I read somewhere on here that each team plays each other twice with 6 extra games to make 28 followed by a top 5 play off.

Can't remember if this was someone's idea from this forum or an actual proposal

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13 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

That devalues the first twenty-three games. As long as you’re in the eight in any order come Round 23, you can win the title. The hubcap means nothing when awarded at Round 30, it would hold less creidance at Round 23 as there’s no bonuses to finishing first ahead of the 8’s. 

Oliver you are considering it is the same competition, read back, In my proposal the first 23 rounds is a seperate entity entirely, the teams will have left that comp behind just as tge do when entering the bottom 4 do for the qualifying 8's, the SL clubs start again for the right to get to Old Trafford.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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The system is fine, just include all 8 teams in playoffs. 

1v4, 2v3 - loser gets a second chance

5v8, 6v7 - knock out matches. 

It’s not ###### hard. You aren’t “innovative” if your creative solution to a problem is convoluted and confusing to spectators. 

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