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Martyn Sadler

Marwan's fixture proposal

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27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Oliver you are considering it is the same competition, read back, In my proposal the first 23 rounds is a seperate entity entirely, the teams will have left that comp behind just as tge do when entering the bottom 4 do for the qualifying 8's, the SL clubs start again for the right to get to Old Trafford.

Even so, it devalues the first “competition” and is utterly ludicrous. 

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

The 2016 Super 8s were also very exciting, with the LLS won only on the last day when three teams could still have won it. Leeds fans won't remember this.

I think you missed my point. Or kind of made it for me. 

We have had plenty of seasons where, going in to the last game the LLS has up for grabs they arent remembered as exciting as 2015 because of the game itself being won with the last play of the game. 

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If they keep the super 8s, top 3 qualify for semis after 30 games with team with most points from super 8s only. So all get rewarded for all games. My personal preference would be reverting to 6 team play offs with loser of 1v2 getting 2nd chance with winner going to GF 

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Good to see such united opinion as to the right competition structure.

Hope the RFL member clubs can be just as united.

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15 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Playing 6 sides 3 times and 6 sides 2 times boring, too repetitive. 

playing 8 sides 3 times and 4 sides 2 times, with three of them playing for nothing in the last third of the season as they have already qualified. Exciting. 

There are a million and one different options for the fixture format all with their positives and negatives, none of them addressing the actual problems the game faces. All of them attempting to cover cracks with paper. 

Yes.

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15 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

I'd go further and just reset to 0 ala the qualifiers, where the top teams just get the home turf advantage.  Proper second season stuff!

That or have a playoff bracket (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5). Maybe home and away series?  Highest remaining seed always plays the lowest remaining seed (keep the qualifiers for the bottom 4)

Did you used to work at Bletchley Park?

Get real people. 12(?) teams. Top 5 playoff.

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1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

It's probably irrelevant anyway as it looks like the 8s aren't going to be around from next season

Correct. Wild card for Widnes?

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25 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Did you used to work at Bletchley Park?

Get real people. 12(?) teams. Top 5 playoff.

But I realllly like the qualifiers.  I don't particularly mind what happens at the top, although I have preferences obviously,. Just keep the middle 8s or some form of it!

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1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

But I realllly like the qualifiers.  I don't particularly mind what happens at the top, although I have preferences obviously,. Just keep the middle 8s or some form of it!

Maybe you do like the qualifiers but the system that bankrupts the losers and cripples the game is a sick joke. 

And it is a sick joke when it's possible for all 4 bottom SL clubs to finish top 4 in these so called qualifiers, but still one of them has to play off with the team they have already beaten, a club which is by definition is in the bottom half of the table. All you are qualifying for is a game of Russian  Roulette .

Get rid.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Maybe you do like the qualifiers but the system that bankrupts the losers and cripples the game is a sick joke. 

And it is a sick joke when it's possible for all 4 bottom SL clubs to finish top 4 in these so called qualifiers, but still one of them has to play off with the team they have already beaten, a club which is by definition is in the bottom half of the table. All you are qualifying for is a game of Russian  Roulette .

Get rid.

The competition doesnt bankrupt them irresponsible spending does.   

If Halifax can make the qualifiers spending a quarter of the super league salary cap then your theory doesn't sit quite right with me

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29 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

The competition doesnt bankrupt them irresponsible spending does.   

If Halifax can make the qualifiers spending a quarter of the super league salary cap then your theory doesn't sit quite right with me

Turning over 33% potential teams is risible. And if its unlikely to be promoted because a team is inadequate then what is the point?

What is the point of a quick bit of gratification for a year  only to be replaced  by the one that was sent down the previous year.

This is just a 3 ring circus run by coco the clown.

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Well I'm sure the theory is once your up you get more funding and can there for compete at the higher level. 

If the turn over is really that high (has there ever been a year where 4 switched?), then there must be enough room for more teams in the super league and for it to remain competitive. 

 To me, with the amount of money super league teams get over their championship competitors no one should be relegated ever (unless someone magically gets a rich backer ala twp). Teams who get relegated have only their executives, their coaches and their players to blame (and they should apologize to their fans profusely for it).  Your issues stem from bad ownership.

The exception for my never relegated theory would be from the MPG.

Edited by TboneFromTO
Forgot about the million pound game for a second!

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Maybe it would be better if the super 8 teams just carried over the points they earned against the other teams in the super 8s.

Anyway it is a ridiculous system which creates too much uncertainty in terms of future planning and clubs have had to wait until last week in terms of selling hospitality packages etc for what is the business end of the season.

12 teams with top 5 playoffs at the end. It isn't rocket science.

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Whilst we’re been ridiculous why don’t the bottom four play off to join the middle four to play off to make the top five who can then play off to find a winner then everyone has a chance to win😂

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3 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Whilst we’re been ridiculous why don’t the bottom four play off to join the middle four to play off to make the top five who can then play off to find a winner then everyone has a chance to win😂

Sounds like the plot to Inception! I like it 

 

Have you seen the movie "baseketball" (by the south park creators). Their play off bracket sounds like your idea

 

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I don't mind MK's proposal. Can I throw my own in? Not worth a new thread but would appreciate feedback, or you can just abuse and deride me if you prefer.

An 18 team Superleague! But kind of with an intrinsic 8's element. The top 9 (based on the previous season finish) play each other H&A and each of the bottom 9 either H or A (and the reverse for the previous season's bottom 9). That's 25 (11 or 12 at home) games with a MW. Finish with a top 4,5,6 whatever playoff. 1 up 1 down with the "non league"

Would probably require a decent London and would have to accept clubs like Halifax, Featherstone etc. potentially. Ideally Bradford would get their s**t together too

There are top tier leagues in European football where there are massive discrepancies between the top and bottom clubs in terms of stadiums, attendances and likelihood of success. Sit a club like Halifax at the top table and they could turn in a 4 or 5k average fairly quickly I reckon. Within a few years, who knows?  

RL could do with a few more solid "filler" clubs and they could come from towns like Halifax, Rochdale and Oldham etc.

 

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I know I keep going on about this and it's most likely moot since the 8s seem destined to the history books, but one more time...

Saints get the league leaders shield after 23 round

The next 7 rounds decide the premiership

The top four play-off to reach the GF & a chance of the championship

To give a fresh start to the 8s, everything but the points advantage from the weekly rounds is zeroed (includng points difference), so Saints start with 21 points, Wakefield and Catalans on 0.

3 points for a win in each of the 7 rounds makes it possible to move up the table if you can perform against the top teams at the business end of the season, which I see as just reward.

I include the current table and the table with the proposed format.With 3 points for a win, top 4 and even Saints lead is not unassailable with a possible 18 points still up for grabs.. 

image.png.7e3e8e52fd0171939c6c356c9efdfb26.png

image.png.27f8c065a523fc665cc4966b42a9af45.png

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9 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Sounds like the plot to Inception! I like it 

 

Have you seen the movie "baseketball" (by the south park creators). Their play off bracket sounds like your idea

 

Quality 

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After 23 rounds reset all points to 0. Then have the reward for how high you finish is you play at home to every team that is below you at round 23. So Saints would play every game at home, Wigan would play every game except Saints at home. Warrington every game except Saints and Wigan at home. All the way down to Catalan who would play all their matches away. 

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1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

After 23 rounds reset all points to 0. Then have the reward for how high you finish is you play at home to every team that is below you at round 23. So Saints would play every game at home, Wigan would play every game except Saints at home. Warrington every game except Saints and Wigan at home. All the way down to Catalan who would play all their matches away.  

Well that sounds like a recipe for a financially viable league.

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Just had a eureka moment. 12 teams. 22 matches. Top team crowned champions bottom team relegated. Nah far too easy

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Still looking at the proposed slight alteration. (points advantage carried over, points difference zeroed and 3 points for a win in the super 8s.

Saints would already be League leaders, crowned premiers if they are still top after the 8s and champions if they win the grand final.

No-one would have won all three titles using this system since the advent of the 8s.

Using proposed system:

image.png.008828206d78952ebae72129aa3ca587.png

With current system:

image.png.d9aa8d5ca7e1f61cad16ec31ba39a7c5.png

So, although the order is currently the same, the potential for change is more likely with Huddersfield within one win of Warrington and St. Helens needing to lose 3/5 (instead of 4/5 and a massive points loss) to enable Wigan to win the premiership.

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Look, people, at the end of the day the SL clubs recon that they need  at least 14 revenue games per season to make ends meet. In the old days this achieved by 13 home games and the magic weekend.

Now, for some reason (maybe greed?) it was decided to reduce SL to 12 BUT that didn’t change the base requirement of 14 paying games per club. So, alleluia, management consultants were employed to sort it out. And sort it out they did - by perverting the whole way a league works. Only even they, with their sky high charges, couldn’t come up with level of perversion of some on here (are those guys mega management consultants in their day job?).

What is wrong with keeping it simple? Have a straight league to decide the League Leader (most consistent side). Hell, even make it a bit more juicy by stumping up a decent wedge for the winner. Follow this by some other competition, where there is reward for achieving highest league positions, to decide the season champions .

if there has to be PR (and I’m not a fan of that) then either straight one up, one down. OR, if you want a twist,  maybe a 1 or 3 game play off series between the bottom SL team and the top Championsip team; or a straight playoff with the bottom SL team and as many championship teams as you like.

All of which is fine and dandy but, as others have pointed out, it doesn’t address any of the real, underlying, problems that the game faces (and has done for some time) namely not enough revenue and not enough quality players to grow.

 

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Something controversial here, we don’t need any controversial, confusing or complex system to generate fixtures.

Twelve teams. 

22 Home and Away matches, three “loop” fixtures that are pre-determined before a hooter is blown on the opening day, and one Magic Weekend game = 26 League games. 

A top five play-off system that culminates in a Grand Final at Old Trafford. 

The Challenge Cup Final to revert to being played in May, making the season more evenly stacked, instead of being heavily stacked at the back end of the year as it is now. 

The Magic Weekend to move to a weekend in July/August. 

A dedicated International window (though this is dependant on the NRL playing ball) where England take on New Zealand in the US and England Knights play France in Frances. 

Promotion and Relegation to work on a three year cycle in which the Super League side with the lowest average points total over the past three years goes down and is replaced by the Championship side with the highest average points total over the past three years. 

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