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scotchy1

Player Drain

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Hall, Bateman, Sutton, and now likely Williams to add to Hodgson, Graham, Whitehead, the three Burgess. 

Added to that losing some of the overseas players SL clubs intended to keep like Barba, Roberts

Then we have the likes of Ashton, Eastmond, Solomona moving to RU

People argue over whether or not we have enough players to sustain more clubs or to allow a club like Toronto in, but there is the basis of a squad there that would comfortably win SL. It seems to me that the answer is very obvious, there are more than enough SL quality players out there. Getting them playing in SL is the problem that needs solving. 

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6 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The difference in salary caps between SL  and the NRL/top union leagues mean this is inevitable.

No doubt that is true. 

What i was drawing attention to was, that this (the difference in SC and spend) is the problem. Its not finding the players to expand the size of the comp or include sides like Toronto, its finding the money to pay them. Thats nut to crack and problem to solve.

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Some teams could afford higher salary caps... yet we stick with having a salary cap to suit the weakest... Ignoring the effect on quality of product, ultimately on sale-ability of the product and media interest. That eventually impacts money in the sport and a continued decline.

At least we have a equal playing field... all-be-it on a downward trajectory.

Edited by redjonn
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1 minute ago, DavidM said:

Great for England 

Yes to a degree, the majority of the players going to play in the NRL have been established stars of SL or players on the fringe of the England elite squad. Having those players in the NRL means less control over the players and certainly less access.

Such a situation is not good elite club RL in England on a number facets.

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40 minutes ago, eclecticsheep said:

Wot does your last line mean?

Losing your best players, to a competition on the other side of the world, reduces the standard of club RL in England. Those players also get reduced media coverage and are less visible to juniors playing RL in England. It could be argued they also have a reduced profile when they return.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Hall, Bateman, Sutton, and now likely Williams to add to Hodgson, Graham, Whitehead, the three Burgess. 

Added to that losing some of the overseas players SL clubs intended to keep like Barba, Roberts

Then we have the likes of Ashton, Eastmond, Solomona moving to RU

People argue over whether or not we have enough players to sustain more clubs or to allow a club like Toronto in, but there is the basis of a squad there that would comfortably win SL. It seems to me that the answer is very obvious, there are more than enough SL quality players out there. Getting them playing in SL is the problem that needs solving. 

You're stretching it a bit including Ashton and Eastmond.  They left about 10 years ago and barely any to rah rah since then.

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Just now, Tre Cool said:

You're stretching it a bit including Ashton and Eastmond.  They left about 10 years ago and barely any to rah rah since then.

But they are/would be SL standard RL players no?

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

But they are/would be SL standard RL players no?

You can't bring them into a discussion about 'player drain' now.  NRL is an issue I'll give you that.

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Just now, Tre Cool said:

You can't bring them into a discussion about 'player drain' now.  NRL is an issue I'll give you that.

I think you have missed the point. 

My point was that people say we don't have the player pool to support Toronto or an expanded SL, i have used these players as evidence that we do have the player pool to support Toronto/Expanded SL what we don't have is the money. 

The players are out there, including the likes of Ashton and Eastmond, we can't afford them. 

Therefore the focus on whether or not we have 'the player pool' ready to support Toronto/Expanded SL is entirely misplaced. The focus needs to be on having the money because we have the player pool. 

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It does seem a bit ridiculous that the new coaches for Wigan Warriors could probably attract good players from both the NRL and the other code - but they are hamstrung by the salary cap.

Unless Wigan make marquee signings before Bateman is scheduled to return.

Limited to 2 marquee signings may be frustrating - but the salary cap does increase by 2020

http://www.rugby-league.com/article/39736/super-league-clubs-back-proposals-by-rugby-football-league-to-attract-and-retain-elite-talent

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I think you have missed the point. 

My point was that people say we don't have the player pool to support Toronto or an expanded SL, i have used these players as evidence that we do have the player pool to support Toronto/Expanded SL what we don't have is the money. 

The players are out there, including the likes of Ashton and Eastmond, we can't afford them. 

Therefore the focus on whether or not we have 'the player pool' ready to support Toronto/Expanded SL is entirely misplaced. The focus needs to be on having the money because we have the player pool. 

Not sure the players that aren't playing in SL helps your argument that we have a good enough playing pool if they were. There are plenty of players in Super League that shouldn't be anywhere near the elite level of the game in the northern hemisphere. If anything they'd just help offset that a little. 

Edited by hunsletgreenandgold

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3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

No doubt that is true. 

What i was drawing attention to was, that this (the difference in SC and spend) is the problem. Its not finding the players to expand the size of the comp or include sides like Toronto, its finding the money to pay them. Thats nut to crack and problem to solve.

Toronto would have a far bigger problem putting a Super League standard squad together were this drain not happening.

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3 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Not sure the players that aren't playing in SL helps your argument that we have a good enough playing pool if they were. There are plenty of players in Super League that shouldn't be anywhere near the elite level of the game in the northern hemisphere. If anything they'd just help offset that a little. 

The other side of that though is that the money would see us bring these players back and be able to import better players. 

Id also say the argument is a little more nuanced than that though because, lets say we add Toronto and they sign 6 of those players mentioned and bring them back. That would simply make our league better, there wouldnt be a congruent drop elsewhere we would have simply added a side of better quality players. 

Now I agree that we arent where we should be in terms of quality, and i agree that there are plenty of players at a level lower than we would want. However that level is changeable. The level i would want us to be at now, if we were at it, i would probably want us to be better again. We are where we are now, if we improve, thats a good thing. 

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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Toronto would have a far bigger problem putting a Super League standard squad together were this drain not happening.

Would they? Im not sure why. 

Sure the standard would be higher but the players available to them would be better too. 

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9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Would they? Im not sure why. 

Sure the standard would be higher but the players available to them would be better too. 

They were likely to have to recruit from Australia, as they need players good enough to compete in Super League and also willing to live in Toronto a chunk of the year. 

The lower SL standard is, the more players there will be who meet both requirements. 

Edited by Bob8
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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

They were likely to have to recruit from Australia, as they need players good enough to compete in Super League and also willing to live in Toronto a chunk of the year. 

The lower SL standard is, the more players there will be who meet both requirements. 

but there is a third requirement that is cost. There is a window for players that are good enough to compete, willing to live in Toronto AND can be fit within the cap. 

The larger the player-pool available to SL clubs the easier it will be for Toronto to put together that squad. 

In fact I would say that the Cost issue is one that disproportionately effects Toronto as they will need to pay a premium for players to sign for them as opposed to the clubs on their doorstep, this would mean that as the Salary Cap goes up (assuming they can continue to afford to pay it) it will become exponentially easier for Toronto to put together that squad. 

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

but there is a third requirement that is cost. There is a window for players that are good enough to compete, willing to live in Toronto AND can be fit within the cap. 

The larger the player-pool available to SL clubs the easier it will be for Toronto to put together that squad. 

In fact I would say that the Cost issue is one that disproportionately effects Toronto as they will need to pay a premium for players to sign for them as opposed to the clubs on their doorstep, this would mean that as the Salary Cap goes up (assuming they can continue to afford to pay it) it will become exponentially easier for Toronto to put together that squad. 

Yes, but that requirement will hit other SL clubs harder.  They have money for the next three years. 

Edited by Bob8

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Just now, Bob8 said:

Yes, but that requirement will hit other SL clubs harder. 

Which was the underlying point I was making. These players exist, they can be found, we just can't afford to pay them. 

The nut we need to crack isnt where these players come from, its where the money comes from. 

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13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Which was the underlying point I was making. These players exist, they can be found, we just can't afford to pay them. 

The nut we need to crack isnt where these players come from, its where the money comes from. 

Double the Salary Cap!

Attract more investors, and by "investors" I mean egotistical rich folk who don't mind setting a pile of cash on fire.

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Scotchy just trying to get attention as usual.Why not list the players who moved to RU/NRL and have returned.Or even list the younger players who have developed,since these older players moved.I suspect he's lonely and this is his way of gaining a little attention.

 

 

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