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Mr Plow

West Wales Raiders

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Results don’t always define a club. Don’t they have a full youth setup and didn’t South Wales Ironmen last year run a reserve grade? That’s more than can be said for a lot of clubs in ‘traditional’ Rugby League areas. 

Yeah, it’s bad on the pitch and in the papers when League tables are printed but that’s skin deep, there’s more to a club than that and the bottom four clubs in League One (Skolars, WWR, Hemel and Coventry) are doing a lot more off the pitch than many others do. 

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13 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Results don’t always define a club. Don’t they have a full youth setup and didn’t South Wales Ironmen last year run a reserve grade? That’s more than can be said for a lot of clubs in ‘traditional’ Rugby League areas. 

Yeah, it’s bad on the pitch and in the papers when League tables are printed but that’s skin deep, there’s more to a club than that and the bottom four clubs in League One (Skolars, WWR, Hemel and Coventry) are doing a lot more off the pitch than many others do. 

But surely it is about results and what’s happening on the pitch ? 

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2 minutes ago, DavidM said:

But surely it is about results and what’s happening on the pitch ? 

Not really. Are you surprised by their results? Probably not. They’re a development club, I’m sure they’ll probably tell you that themselves. 

For them, it’s probably about getting a rugby ball into the hands of as many people in the West Wales region and developing Rugby League players rather than the short term results. 

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18 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Results don’t always define a club. Don’t they have a full youth setup and didn’t South Wales Ironmen last year run a reserve grade? That’s more than can be said for a lot of clubs in ‘traditional’ Rugby League areas. 

Yeah, it’s bad on the pitch and in the papers when League tables are printed but that’s skin deep, there’s more to a club than that and the bottom four clubs in League One (Skolars, WWR, Hemel and Coventry) are doing a lot more off the pitch than many others do. 

True and I think they only had 13 players today which is unbelievable But Ive counted 5 times they've conceded 100+ points 

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3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Not really. Are you surprised by their results? Probably not. They’re a development club, I’m sure they’ll probably tell you that themselves. 

For them, it’s probably about getting a rugby ball into the hands of as many people in the West Wales region and developing Rugby League players rather than the short term results. 

If that’s the case ok , but should they be in this semi pro level if so ? It’s pretty painful development if your not ready 

Edited by DavidM

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3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Why shouldn’t they be in this league? 

Because their results show they are no where near competitive, which harms the quality of the league.

They're am embarrassment at the moment. Probably the worst pro club there's ever been. This is not the standard we want to be setting.

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4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Why shouldn’t they be in this league? 

I'm a believer in the concept of expansion but this surely cant be the best way to do it . If there was relegation from this League then WWR would find themselves bottom of the table in conference league division 3 within 3 seasons .

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Gloucester and oxford were doing alright to . But these , there just seems no crumb of anything 

Edited by DavidM

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6 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Currently the average score in their games is 7 - 81......

Their PD (in 21 games) is -1552 😮

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51 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Results don’t always define a club. Don’t they have a full youth setup and didn’t South Wales Ironmen last year run a reserve grade? That’s more than can be said for a lot of clubs in ‘traditional’ Rugby League areas. 

 Yeah, it’s bad on the pitch and in the papers when League tables are printed but that’s skin deep, there’s more to a club than that and the bottom four clubs in League One (Skolars, WWR, Hemel and Coventry) are doing a lot more off the pitch than many others do. 

And they can do that community work without having to waste money on players who are frankly some distance away from being good enough for this level. They did their community work before they became a League 1 club too. 

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Just now, DavidM said:

Gloucester and oxford were doing alright to 

Oxford were based up in Castleford and bussed in players though so you’d expect them to be half decent.

Gloucester meanwhile were developing a great pathway from University to League 1. A mix of very good southern players and some northern ones led by a very good young coach in Lee Greenwood. Wins up in Workington and a home hammering of Keighley showed they were making progress. Just a shame the university weren’t more keen to help off-field. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

Oxford were based up in Castleford and bussed in players though so you’d expect them to be half decent.

Gloucester meanwhile were developing a great pathway from University to League 1. A mix of very good southern players and some northern ones led by a very good young coach in Lee Greenwood. Wins up in Workington and a home hammering of Keighley showed they were making progress. Just a shame the university weren’t more keen to help off-field. 

 

Is that project between them totally dead 

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Just now, DavidM said:

Is that project between them totally dead 

It never got off the ground really. Oxford did little in their time in League 1 - they gave it a go with southern players then gave up and linked with Cas.

If a new team was going to happen it would’ve been Gloucester to have taken the reigns and see the team up in Bristol. I understand various meetings were held with Sport Bristol and even the owner of Bristol City but nothing came from it. 

There’s only one way expansion works and that’s links with extremely rich people (Toronto) or you let a very good administrator on board (like Newcastle have done - the owner of the union side is also financing Thunder I understand).

I admire the likes of Coventry but it’s asking for a miracle to expect them to be anything other than bottom 3/4 in League 1. 

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15 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

And they can do that community work without having to waste money on players who are frankly some distance away from being good enough for this level. They did their community work before they became a League 1 club too. 

I don't think they're spending any money on players, they have only fielded 14 in the past two games (both at home). Which is crazy really as there are plenty of talented  juniors in Wales, many of whom are supposedly affiliated with West Wales.

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23 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

And they can do that community work without having to waste money on players who are frankly some distance away from being good enough for this level. They did their community work before they became a League 1 club too. 

Agreed. I dont know what their wage bill is but they aren't even a decent amateur standard. 

I really want to see them succeed but you have to wonder if they are doing more harm than good currently.

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14 minutes ago, Moscow01 said:

It never got off the ground really. Oxford did little in their time in League 1 - they gave it a go with southern players then gave up and linked with Cas.

If a new team was going to happen it would’ve been Gloucester to have taken the reigns and see the team up in Bristol. I understand various meetings were held with Sport Bristol and even the owner of Bristol City but nothing came from it. 

 There’s only one way expansion works and that’s links with extremely rich people (Toronto) or you let a very good administrator on board (like Newcastle have done - the owner of the union side is also financing Thunder I understand).

I admire the likes of Coventry but it’s asking for a miracle to expect them to be anything other than bottom 3/4 in League 1. 

Absolutely agreed.

Also, there should not necessarily be a correlation between where successful professional teams are located, and where players are produced.

If Ice Hockey followed the RL model, the teams would mainly be located in small Canadian towns and the sport would be very poor. Thankfully the NHL could see beyond that.

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Most of the the problems started when they reconfigured the league dropping down 4/5 teams from the championship, when at the beginning it was a more even playing (excuse pun). I have a feeling that when the new TV deal kicks in 2021or possibly before there will be a quite a few clubs cut adrift North n South. 

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Personally I still believe that L1 should be transformed into an open competition, best 16 odd clubs not in the top 2 tiers there, then beneath that regional leagues (SW (incl. W.Midlands/Wales), SE (incl. E.Midlands), Yorks & NE, Lancs & NW) which have end of season playoffs to promote into L1.

Ideally then L1 would be placed on a par with Elite 1, with end of season playoffs into the Champ.

West Wales will have a much easier time growing a supporter base and developing if they had local competition that isn't going to completely crush them. The current situation is good for no-one.

Edited by Chamey
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I don’t mean any disrespect to WWR but surely now this is doing more harm than good in terms of getting young Welsh lads playing the game? If they are doing community work to raise the profile of the game then credit to them, but I can’t help but think this effort would be more productive if there was a more successful lower tier team than a league 1 team getting hammered every week.

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for me if Wales wants two semi pro teams they both need to be in North East Wales. Crusaders based at Wrexham and second team at Deeside. Both could tap into Cheshire for a few players . The game between the two would be a genuine derby. Make the Racecourse ground the national stadium of Wales Rugby League.  

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