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deluded pom?

Super League Structure Sorted Within Next Fortnight

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Brilliant that the Championship teams have stuck to their guns. I guess the SL clubs thought they would cave but now there will be very little change.

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2 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Brilliant that the Championship teams have stuck to their guns. I guess the SL clubs thought they would cave but now there will be very little change.

Why what has been agreed? 

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13 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Brilliant that the Championship teams have stuck to their guns. I guess the SL clubs thought they would cave but now there will be very little change.

I expect there will be some sort of compromise where we keep 8s for another year, then switch to something else. 

The championship clubs have to offer some sort of goodwill to the SL clubs because if they refuse to accede to any change whatsoever before the end of the current deal, then when the new deal comes the SL will be much more inclined to cut them loose completely. 

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17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why what has been agreed? 

From the look of things, nothing.

Elstone still pushing, though.

 Rugby League’s ‘civil war’ over the game’s structure is close to ending – as top-flight clubs push ahead with plans to scrap the Super 8s, according to Super League chief executive Robert Elstone.

 

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5 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I expect there will be some sort of compromise where we keep 8s for another year, then switch to something else. 

The championship clubs have to offer some sort of goodwill to the SL clubs because if they refuse to accede to any change whatsoever before the end of the current deal, then when the new deal comes the SL will be much more inclined to cut them loose completely. 

They wouldnt get anything now if most SL clubs got their way so I doubt that will change in the future anyway. Over the next couple of seasons the Championship clubs as a whole will have to try and put something in place away from the SL teams that will safe guard their futures.

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The super 8s will be gone...but we'll retain some kind of promotion & relegation play offs...

The middle 8s & MPG is the only thing that's worked...expected it to be tweaked,maybe just the bottom 2 & top 2 teams to create a "super 4 ", to be played during the super league play offs

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10 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I expect there will be some sort of compromise where we keep 8s for another year, then switch to something else. 

 

I expect you're right, but do we think they'll let us know what the plan for 2020 onward will be or will they wait until this time next year to have another meeting about it?

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18 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I expect there will be some sort of compromise where we keep 8s for another year, then switch to something else. 

The championship clubs have to offer some sort of goodwill to the SL clubs because if they refuse to accede to any change whatsoever before the end of the current deal, then when the new deal comes the SL will be much more inclined to cut them loose completely. 

Doesnt look that way to me. Looks the complete opposite. Seems pretty clear the 8s are dead and its the what replaces them that they are still debating.

12 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

They wouldnt get anything now if most SL clubs got their way so I doubt that will change in the future anyway. Over the next couple of seasons the Championship clubs as a whole will have to try and put something in place away from the SL teams that will safe guard their futures.

There is a worry that what the SL clubs are putting in place, in a desperate need to get away from the 8s, isnt what they want and isnt what the lower leagues want, but is some kind of fudge to get it over the line. Then we are left with the next 3 seasons of a structure nobody wants until SL gets out of its agreement and finally puts in place what it wants and the lower leagues are then scrambling to adjust. That would be a Pyrrhic victory for the lower leagues, getting something now but losing out in the future.  

My hope is that both parties have been clever here and the lower leagues have accepted SL putting in place whatever they want and the lower leagues spend the next three years putting in place their structure, with the funding plan they have in place to pay for it and perhaps squeezing a bit more from SL if its a good plan, and bedding it in so that when we come to 2020/2021 both leagues have their systems bedded in and working and the game can approach the rights competition on the up with compelling products to sell in whatever way is deemed best at that point. 

 

Edited by scotchy1

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#pi55poorjournalism?

I hope Spud is right about 2019, a compromise of bottom 2 top 2 would be much better imo. 

Would love to see a return to the original top 5 Super League playoffs (with less reg games - ie, not 30). 

The saga rumbles on.

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Hopefully this is the beginning of the end to being charitable to clubs that really have little purpose within the game. 

The money needs to be kept by teams who are offering something to the game, the sides that are developing players and not teams that have a first team and no other structure benath that, be that Super League clubs or lower league clubs. Some of your NCL teams are more valuable to the game than some in the ‘professional’ structure. We see more players come through at Thatto Heath or Wigan St Pats than we do from your Hunslet’s or Whitehaven’s, yet we’re giving financial rewards to these clubs instead of the teams that are manufacturing these future players. 

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17 minutes ago, roughyedspud said:

The super 8s will be gone...but we'll retain some kind of promotion & relegation play offs...

The middle 8s & MPG is the only thing that's worked...expected it to be tweaked,maybe just the bottom 2 & top 2 teams to create a "super 4 ", to be played during the super league play offs

That would certainly be a lot more favourable than the current system

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I've never really been a fan of the 8s structure for a variety of reasons, but the gap on the field between the bottom end of Super League and top end of the Championship seems narrower than it's been for a long time and with more expansion clubs potentially joining the structure and looking to climb the ladder to SL, i wouldn't like to see the passage from the Championship to SL become too much of a bottle neck.

I do think 4 teams being threatened with relegation in a 12 team league is too much jeapordy, and as i said i don't like that structure anyway, but i think a good compromise would be bottom of SL and top of the Championship swapping places automatically, with the winners of the Championship play offs (2nd to 5th) travelling to the 2nd bottom SL club in a promotion/relegation play-off.

SL could then return to a top 5 play off format, whilst i think the system of 2 down from the Championsip to be replaced by the league champions and play off winners in League 1 works pretty well as it is and should be retained.

I doubt very much that i'll get what i'm hoping for though.

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My big worry is that they are going to fudge this into something like the suggestions above. Which is simply the same thing in a different wrapping, whether we have 2 or 4 teams in the promotion/relegation dog-fight we still have the same issues. We have 8 teams in there now and can't sell the championship, lower league clubs are getting in to financial difficulty at a rate of knots, SL clubs can't plan for the future. There is still that cut off point where the damage is done, we arent removing it or mitigating it we're just moving it about. 

Its all a little bit of shuffling the pieces about but not actually moving forward in anyway. It wouldnt monetise the championship, it wouldnt help monetise france and canada, it doesnt help the clubs grow.

It would simply give nobody their own way and guarantee in 3 years time we are back where we started with people fighting for change again. 

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At the end of the day no one will get 100% what they think should happen.

In super league there will still be play offs, format to be decided.

The leagues will be made up of 10/12/14 teams, format to be decided.

There will be promotion and relegation, format to be decided.

Funding for all clubs until 2021 will remain broadly the same, exact distribution to be decided.

And so it goes on.

There will be compromise, some carrots will be dangled as before and then in a few months time when the devil in the detail comes out we will have endless threads about changing the structure. 

 

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

My big worry is that they are going to fudge this into something like the suggestions above. Which is simply the same thing in a different wrapping, whether we have 2 or 4 teams in the promotion/relegation dog-fight we still have the same issues. We have 8 teams in there now and can't sell the championship, lower league clubs are getting in to financial difficulty at a rate of knots, SL clubs can't plan for the future. There is still that cut off point where the damage is done, we arent removing it or mitigating it we're just moving it about. 

Its all a little bit of shuffling the pieces about but not actually moving forward in anyway. It wouldnt monetise the championship, it wouldnt help monetise france and canada, it doesnt help the clubs grow.

It would simply give nobody their own way and guarantee in 3 years time we are back where we started with people fighting for change again. 

Jeez! I think I am in agreement with you, there's a first!!!

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Even though I enjoy the middle 8s I hope they go with a top 5 play off in SL, Championship and League 1.

One up, one down between all leagues 

 

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Trouble is, after that first press conference when the then-cabal sought to bounce the game into the New Order by making confident - yet premature - announcements, how can we be sure they are not at it again?

Good strategy - seize the initiative, build up expectations, amd make it look like everything is going just fine.  Then, when (as last time) the other (wrongfooted?) parties stand up and say "Whoooah there...not so fast..." it is THEY that are cast as the bad guys for spoiling the party.  Politicians do it all the time.

I'll not look forward to Peace In Our Time, until I see both Rimmer AND an authorsed spokesman for the non-SL clubs validating what Elwood said.

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Whether we go one up one down, two up two down 8 up 8 down doesnt really make a difference. Top 5, top 6, top 8 everyone in a play-off doesnt really make a difference. 

All it is is a shifting of the cut off point. Clubs are still going to get screwed by it, its just a moving of which ones. 

The facts are that until the Championship can become a viable and sustainable competition that can bring in its own money that allows clubs to compete in SL P+R wont work. There will still be a massive drop off on one side and a nigh on impossible mountain to scale on the other. 

The entire focus of the game cannot be on one very small aspect that affects a minority of clubs on that border between SL and the Championship. 

League 1 is something of a joke in the disparity in size, the championship was basically two leagues this year and 1 third of the league for the majority of its clubs is pretty much pointless in terms of winning.

I am confident in stating that if the next structure is a SOP to the lower league clubs to get rid of the 8s, some bastardised version of this convoluted system it wont last past 2021.

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1 hour ago, Yakkers said:

I do think 4 teams being threatened with relegation in a 12 team league is too much jeapordy, and as i said i don't like that structure anyway, but i think a good compromise would be bottom of SL and top of the Championship swapping places automatically, with the winners of the Championship play offs (2nd to 5th) travelling to the 2nd bottom SL club in a promotion/relegation play-off.

The problem there is that the SL season has to be timed to finish at the same time as the Championship play offs are ending or the team second bottom of SL are kicking their heels for three weeks until the Championship play offs have finished.

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end to being charitable to clubs that really have little purpose within the game. 

The money needs to be kept by teams who are offering something to the game, the sides that are developing players and not teams that have a first team and no other structure benath that, be that Super League clubs or lower league clubs. Some of your NCL teams are more valuable to the game than some in the ‘professional’ structure. We see more players come through at Thatto Heath or Wigan St Pats than we do from your Hunslet’s or Whitehaven’s, yet we’re giving financial rewards to these clubs instead of the teams that are manufacturing these future players. 

Has the professional game ever given serious money to the amateur/community game to help develop future talent? Even when there was a levy on pro clubs signing a player from the amateur ranks the pros would do all they could to avoid paying the levy. The amateur clubs were owed thousands.

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Hopefully we stop rewarding mediocrity with an incredibly long and ultimately impossible shot at reaching the Grand Final and conversely, throwing doubt into the minds of a club who’ve finished as high as 9th with the threat of relegation. 

 

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2 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end to being charitable to clubs that really have little purpose within the game. 

The money needs to be kept by teams who are offering something to the game, the sides that are developing players and not teams that have a first team and no other structure benath that, be that Super League clubs or lower league clubs. Some of your NCL teams are more valuable to the game than some in the ‘professional’ structure. We see more players come through at Thatto Heath or Wigan St Pats than we do from your Hunslet’s or Whitehaven’s, yet we’re giving financial rewards to these clubs instead of the teams that are manufacturing these future players. 

Thank god you’re not in charge then .

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4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Hopefully we stop rewarding mediocrity with an incredibly long and ultimately impossible shot at reaching the Grand Final and conversely, throwing doubt into the minds of a club who’ve finished as high as 9th with the threat of relegation. 

 

Radical idea, play the other 11 teams home and away, team with most points at the season's end are the Champions, team with the fewest go down and are replaced by the team that topped the league below.

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1 minute ago, Private Baldrick said:

Radical idea, play the other 11 teams home and away, team with most points at the season's end are the Champions, team with the fewest go down and are replaced by the team that topped the league below.

Now there is a radical idea.

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