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deluded pom?

Canada Rugby League Announces Re-structured Board

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Growing....growing.....growing.

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The board looks a move in the right direction. Getting to the 2021 WC important in building to the 2015 event. 

Interesting the mention of a long term goal to make RL among the top 5 sports in Canada. I found this list of the top 10:

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-popular-sports-in-canada.html

Bit of work to do with that laudable, but ambitious, goal. 

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16 hours ago, RayCee said:

The board looks a move in the right direction. Getting to the 2021 WC important in building to the 2015 event. 

Interesting the mention of a long term goal to make RL among the top 5 sports in Canada. I found this list of the top 10:

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-popular-sports-in-canada.html

Bit of work to do with that laudable, but ambitious, goal. 

The list is garbage. Lacrosse is definitely not #2, or even top-5, and cricket is not even top-25 outside of the GTA and GVR. As a wrestling coach, I had a good laugh at #10; it is a fringe sport. Even rugby at #7 is a massive stretch, regardless of whether we're talking participation numbers, viewership, or general awareness. Soccer should be top-3 at least and the list is missing the likes of volleyball, tennis and golf.

Edited by Lamport Life
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3 minutes ago, Lamport Life said:

The list is garbage. Lacrosse is definitely not #2, or even top-5, and cricket is not even top-25 outside of the GTA and GVR. As a wrestling coach, I had a good laugh at #10; it is a fringe sport. Even rugby at #7 is a massive stretch, regardless of whether we're talking participation numbers, viewership, or general awareness. Soccer should be top-3 at least and the list is missing the likes of volleyball, tennis and golf.

I agree with you...it is a twisted list.  I don't think rugby at 7 is wrong though...could be higher...alot of high schools play (male and female) all over the country.  How cricket ever got in there I'll never know.

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49 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I agree with you...it is a twisted list.  I don't think rugby at 7 is wrong though...could be higher...alot of high schools play (male and female) all over the country.  How cricket ever got in there I'll never know.

As a high school coach, regional convenor and a provincial high school rugby board member, I have to disagree with you. The numbers in high school are lower than many other sports, including soccer, hockey, basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, cross country, track, badminton, and swimming. That's just at the high school level and doesn't include at the club/community level where it is also behind sports like ultimate frisbee, tennis, golf, running, cycling, gymnastics, bowling, numerous martial arts, and lacrosse. I have possibly missed a few.

While the above is anecdotal, the last survey by Stats Canada on participation by those 15 years of age an older had the following top-10:

1. Golf 2. Hockey 3. Soccer 4. Baseball 5. Volleyball 6. Basketball 7. Downhill skiing 8. Cycling 9. Swimming 10. Badminton

Among children 5-14, a Canadian Heritage Research Paper listed the top 10 as:

1. Soccer 2. Swimming 3. Hockey 4. Basketball 5. Baseball 6. Volleyball 7. Gymnastics 8. Figure skating 9. Karate 10. Downhill skiing

Rugby likely does better if you factor in television viewership and media coverage but, even there, it is likely only a 3rd or 4th tier sport at best. (1st: Hockey - 2nd: sports with a strong professional presence in Canada, such as baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis lacrosse and golf - 3rd: sports with a long history periodic coverage, especially at Olympic time such as volleyball, track, swimming, skiing,  and possibly rugby though it is more sevens geared and niche nowadays.

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Just now, Lamport Life said:

As a high school coach, regional convenor and a provincial high school rugby board member, I have to disagree with you. The numbers in high school are lower than many other sports, including soccer, hockey, basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, cross country, track, badminton, and swimming. That's just at the high school level and doesn't include at the club/community level where it is also behind sports like ultimate frisbee, tennis, golf, running, cycling, gymnastics, bowling, numerous martial arts, and lacrosse. I have possibly missed a few.

While the above is anecdotal, the last survey by Stats Canada on participation by those 15 years of age an older had the following top-10:

1. Golf 2. Hockey 3. Soccer 4. Baseball 5. Volleyball 6. Basketball 7. Downhill skiing 8. Cycling 9. Swimming 10. Badminton

Among children 5-14, a Canadian Heritage Research Paper listed the top 10 as:

1. Soccer 2. Swimming 3. Hockey 4. Basketball 5. Baseball 6. Volleyball 7. Gymnastics 8. Figure skating 9. Karate 10. Downhill skiing

Rugby likely does better if you factor in television viewership and media coverage but, even there, it is likely only a 3rd or 4th tier sport at best. (1st: Hockey - 2nd: sports with a strong professional presence in Canada, such as baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis lacrosse and golf - 3rd: sports with a long history periodic coverage, especially at Olympic time such as volleyball, track, swimming, skiing,  and possibly rugby though it is more sevens geared and niche nowadays.

I don't know but its the data and where they get it for these lists.  I've seen many different lists....none of which I  agree with.  I think more kids playing rugby than golf or volleyball, but I could be wrong.  All depends how you count them I guess.

Hey, any chances of getting the OFSAA regs changed so high schools can play League or are they just going to keep it as a closed club for Union?  Any talk of it at the provincial high school board?

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3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Hey, any chances of getting the OFSAA regs changed so high schools can play League or are they just going to keep it as a closed club for Union?  Any talk of it at the provincial high school board?

That's not how it works. OFSAA doesn't create sports for regions to offer; schools and regions start teams, create a set of rules and organize leagues and then OFSAA sanctions them for festival status, followed by championship status once they meet certain thresholds for participation by number of regions, number of schools and number of players. Currently I don't know of any high schools running a rugby league team and there are definitely no sanctioned high school leagues out there. The onus would be on coaches and players but since everyone developed in the union system that isn't going to happen any time soon. The better bet is to do it through clubs since the version of flag and tackle rugby played at the U7, U9 and U11 levels is at least as close to league as it is to union and in many ways closer.

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Just now, Lamport Life said:

That's not how it works. OFSAA doesn't create sports for regions to offer; schools and regions start teams, create a set of rules and organize leagues and then OFSAA sanctions them for festival status, followed by championship status once they meet certain thresholds for participation by number of regions, number of schools and number of players. Currently I don't know of any high schools running a rugby league team and there are definitely no sanctioned high school leagues out there. The onus would be on coaches and players but since everyone developed in the union system that isn't going to happen any time soon. The better bet is to do it through clubs since the version of flag and tackle rugby played at the U7, U9 and U11 levels is at least as close to league as it is to union and in many ways closer.

In their regs they only sanction Union...thats my point, Union have intentionally created a catch 22 so League can't be played due to insurance purposes.  If they changed the reg. then there could be a festival and so forth. 

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1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

In their regs they only sanction Union...thats my point, Union have intentionally created a catch 22 so League can't be played due to insurance purposes.  If they changed the reg. then there could be a festival and so forth. 

You are looking for an obstacle where none exists. There is no reg that needs to be changed for rugby league to be played in high school. OFSAA cannot block league from being played in Ontario and insurance for sports is set by the school boards, not OFSAA. There are numerous sports played in high school regions that are not OFSAA sports. (E.g. flag football, bocce ball, ultimate, bowling, archery, cricket, fast pitch and slow pitch softball, handball, snowboarding, table tennis, and water polo) OFSAA is merely the organization given the responsibility of sanctioning provincial championships, it has no power over what happens at the regional level.

OFSAA and union are not blocking league from being played at the high school level but that would be putting the cart before the horse anyway. Sports begin and the youth and are played significantly at the community level before they find their way into high schools.

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1 minute ago, Lamport Life said:

You are looking for an obstacle where none exists. There is no reg that needs to be changed for rugby league to be played in high school. OFSAA cannot block league from being played in Ontario and insurance for sports is set by the school boards, not OFSAA. There are numerous sports played in high school regions that are not OFSAA sports. (E.g. flag football, bocce ball, ultimate, bowling, archery, cricket, fast pitch and slow pitch softball, handball, snowboarding, table tennis, and water polo) OFSAA is merely the organization given the responsibility of sanctioning provincial championships, it has no power over what happens at the regional level.

OFSAA and union are not blocking league from being played at the high school level but that would be putting the cart before the horse anyway. Sports begin and the youth and are played significantly at the community level before they find their way into high schools.

No...no...the sports you note are not per se contact sports like rugby...insurance criteria for the boards is quite clear for high level contact sports and is guided by OFSAA Guidelines, re insurance for contact sports.  And the reg states that only Union is allowed under the 'rugby' term for rules being sanctioned.  To move forward OFSAA merely has to change the reg and state that both Union and League are sanctioned, permitted to be played...then League would have to have a festival, banquet, etc, just like what happened with Girls Rugby.

OFSAA does have power at the regional  level; the various athletic associations are tied to it.

Hey, if its not an issue if you want to set up a festival I'll submit a team no problem (just PM me).  However the Union people will never allow the reg to be changed so that I could even run a team (insurance)...if the reg was changed the team would be included under the new blanket clause of 'rugby; both Union and League'....I hope you don't think that the reg. was put in there by accident do you?

This is the immediate change that needs to happen at the high school level to get League into the high schools and you are on the committee...will you bring it up at the next meeting and let me know how it goes?  I can have my team ready in no time if the change is made.

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3 hours ago, Lamport Life said:

The list is garbage. Lacrosse is definitely not #2, or even top-5, and cricket is not even top-25 outside of the GTA and GVR. As a wrestling coach, I had a good laugh at #10; it is a fringe sport. Even rugby at #7 is a massive stretch, regardless of whether we're talking participation numbers, viewership, or general awareness. Soccer should be top-3 at least and the list is missing the likes of volleyball, tennis and golf.

Thanks Lamport for that ( and Kman). When I saw it I thought that my understanding of sport in Canada is well off the mark.

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22 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Growing....growing.....growing.

How to do that is the issue RL in Canada faces. The TWP is bringing the game into the public's consciousness and SL would do that even more. However, turning that awareness into clubs, volunteers and all the admin at goes with that is a challenge. I'm sure this is being looked into and once it germinates, it would develop some of its own momentum. 

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18 minutes ago, RayCee said:

How to do that is the issue RL in Canada faces. The TWP is bringing the game into the public's consciousness and SL would do that even more. However, turning that awareness into clubs, volunteers and all the admin at goes with that is a challenge. I'm sure this is being looked into and once it germinates, it would develop some of its own momentum. 

There is talk of working with the Ontario RU to allow clubs to field teams in both codes.  I'm sure this agreement would involve a sizeable cash "investment" from TWP.  It is really difficult to start a new club in populated areas. Due to their history, the RU clubs have fields in good locations on land that could not be purchased cheaply anymore.  

The TWP plan seems to be to encourage both codes and perhaps later cherry pick the most promising players.  I actually think that the Ontario Arrows joining the MLR will be complimentary to the Wolfpack.

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2 minutes ago, ojx said:

There is talk of working with the Ontario RU to allow clubs to field teams in both codes.  I'm sure this agreement would involve a sizeable cash "investment" from TWP.  It is really difficult to start a new club in populated areas. Due to their history, the RU clubs have fields in good locations on land that could not be purchased cheaply anymore.  

The TWP plan seems to be to encourage both codes and perhaps later cherry pick the most promising players.  I actually think that the Ontario Arrows joining the MLR will be complimentary to the Wolfpack.

I could see that working. 

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When I was growing up in the mid 90s in rural Ontario, rugby was the huge sport at my high school. Back then, I didn’t even know there were two codes. 

Edited by Michael1812

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19 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

When I was growing up in the mid 90s in rural Ontario, rugby was the huge sport at my high school. Back then, I didn’t even know there were two codes. 

Sounds like you might have fallen under the influence of Ed Fluter in Stratford.  Just a pick at a needle in a haystack....

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On 8/17/2018 at 4:28 PM, ojx said:

There is talk of working with the Ontario RU to allow clubs to field teams in both codes. I'm sure this agreement would involve a sizeable cash "investment" from TWP.

They did that a bit before with Oakville and Burlington,  but it didn't really stick. Now, if money was involved that could change things. 

Maybe something like the 2nd XVs playing league matches?

I see the difficulty in that, especially at the Marshall level,  the rugby season takes up most of the available good weather. Rugby drops off a bit in the fall but that's only because the university players are starting their season. It's really tough to do both as a player, and how do you convince someone to switch? There are obviously those whose skill sets naturally point them that way, but apart from that I'm not sure. 

At the very top you could probably snag some who have be missing out due to what a mess Rugby Canada is, but I don't see RO wanting to be too involved in aggravating RC.

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On 8/17/2018 at 2:28 PM, Kayakman said:

No...no...the sports you note are not per se contact sports like rugby...insurance criteria for the boards is quite clear for high level contact sports and is guided by OFSAA Guidelines, re insurance for contact sports.  And the reg states that only Union is allowed under the 'rugby' term for rules being sanctioned.  To move forward OFSAA merely has to change the reg and state that both Union and League are sanctioned, permitted to be played...then League would have to have a festival, banquet, etc, just like what happened with Girls Rugby.

OFSAA does have power at the regional  level; the various athletic associations are tied to it.

Hey, if its not an issue if you want to set up a festival I'll submit a team no problem (just PM me).  However the Union people will never allow the reg to be changed so that I could even run a team (insurance)...if the reg was changed the team would be included under the new blanket clause of 'rugby; both Union and League'....I hope you don't think that the reg. was put in there by accident do you?

This is the immediate change that needs to happen at the high school level to get League into the high schools and you are on the committee...will you bring it up at the next meeting and let me know how it goes?  I can have my team ready in no time if the change is made.

I have been away from a computer the past couple of weeks in the wilderness and am only replying to this now.

I had a phone conversation with Shamus, the OFSAA Manager of Sport, and he backed up what I had told you previously. OFSAA is not in any way blocking Rugby League. OPHEA sets guidelines for sports safety and management, contact and non-contact, and the boards use that to guide their coaches and administrators. There is nothing in the OFSAA regs that prevents league and nothing they can do to make it easier for schools to run league; their rules have no impact. It is OPHEA, which is not affiliated with OFSAA in any way or influenced by OFSAA and OSBIE, which insures all publicly funded schools in Ontario, and which also does not have any connection to OFSAA, that set criteria. From his view, any coach is free to start a program as long as they have principal approval. He says that they would likely defer to the the OPHEA union guidelines in terms of coaching and competition requirements since they are fairly generic in nature.

You can continue to claim OFSAA is the one holding league back but then you would be arguing that the #2 person at OFSAA is wrong and you are right.

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On 9/1/2018 at 9:03 PM, Lamport Life said:

I have been away from a computer the past couple of weeks in the wilderness and am only replying to this now.

I had a phone conversation with Shamus, the OFSAA Manager of Sport, and he backed up what I had told you previously. OFSAA is not in any way blocking Rugby League. OPHEA sets guidelines for sports safety and management, contact and non-contact, and the boards use that to guide their coaches and administrators. There is nothing in the OFSAA regs that prevents league and nothing they can do to make it easier for schools to run league; their rules have no impact. It is OPHEA, which is not affiliated with OFSAA in any way or influenced by OFSAA and OSBIE, which insures all publicly funded schools in Ontario, and which also does not have any connection to OFSAA, that set criteria. From his view, any coach is free to start a program as long as they have principal approval. He says that they would likely defer to the the OPHEA union guidelines in terms of coaching and competition requirements since they are fairly generic in nature.

You can continue to claim OFSAA is the one holding league back but then you would be arguing that the #2 person at OFSAA is wrong and you are right.

Not really arguing nothing and thanks for the info.  All I'm saying is the regulation needs to be changed, no principal teacher will touch it if not approved by OPHEA AND OSBIE (especially after that poor young lad died on the canoe trip): the OFSAA regulation needs to be changed from just rugby union to include league just to play it safe.  If they would make that very minor change it would really help and clear up any grey area for someone trying to get it started (i.e. me); thats all I'm saying.  I think that you would find that if they tried to make the change there would be major resistance from some quarters.

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13 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Not really arguing nothing and thanks for the info.  All I'm saying is the regulation needs to be changed, no principal teacher will touch it if not approved by OPHEA AND OSBIE (especially after that poor young lad died on the canoe trip): the OFSAA regulation needs to be changed from just rugby union to include league just to play it safe.  If they would make that very minor change it would really help and clear up any grey area for someone trying to get it started (i.e. me); thats all I'm saying.  I think that you would find that if they tried to make the change there would be major resistance from some quarters.

Just wondering, when I played rugby (union) in OFSAA none of the paperwork referenced anything like union, it was just referenced as Rugby.  Do OFSAA and the insurance partners actually mention "union", iRB or the code or anything?

 

I'm just looking for a loophole for y'all.

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4 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Just wondering, when I played rugby (union) in OFSAA none of the paperwork referenced anything like union, it was just referenced as Rugby.  Do OFSAA and the insurance partners actually mention "union", iRB or the code or anything?

 

I'm just looking for a loophole for y'all.

It is clearly mentioned in the OFSAA Rules which can be viewed online.  There is no loophole.

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7 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Just wondering, when I played rugby (union) in OFSAA none of the paperwork referenced anything like union, it was just referenced as Rugby.  Do OFSAA and the insurance partners actually mention "union", iRB or the code or anything?

 

I'm just looking for a loophole for y'all.

Just approached by five fine young men on the first day of school who went to the Featherstone game (at my urging) over the summer and want a team started at the school.  Can't move forward since the head of P.E. needs to have it Okayed in the OFSAA Regulations or the Insurance Board (OPHEA) and the local Athletic Board won't sanction it.

I have been informed that to move forward I need to have the regulation changed.  Then I can commence practice with proper insurance school coverage and will then  have to find someone to play.  

Thats the reality on the ground here at the grassroots.

Edited by Kayakman

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54 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Good luck with this Kman.

Thanks...we are ready to roll on this end but as you can see from the previous responses we are stuck in a Catch 22.  Really the fall season should be for Rugby League instead of 7's and the spring league for Union.  Not holding my breath for it to happen for awhile though.

Edited by Kayakman

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