Sign in to follow this  
Bob8

Everyone else is out of step!!!

Recommended Posts

On 8/24/2018 at 4:55 PM, Bob8 said:

There are a few posters on here that I regard as rather unthinking and unable to accept any view other than their own. 

A really interesting thread for someone like me with serial chronic imposter syndrome. I know I'm out of step but I don't ever remember thinking it was everyone else.

Fascinating!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/24/2018 at 4:55 PM, Bob8 said:

There are a few posters on here that I regard as rather unthinking and unable to accept any view other than their own. 

In return, they seem to think the same about me.

Anyone with any clever tips on how we can work out for ourselves if we are one-eyed and partisan or if everyone else is?

I think a big indicator is how accurately you can predict somebody's opinion even when it is quite unrelated to their usual points. 

I've made the point before on the culture wars thread about how often I've seen people who were initially on the left but against the direction of identity politics, suddenly talking about things like keeping the state out of private enterprise. 

They should be unrelated but far too often you can predict someone's opinion based on a whole host of unrelated things. They used to follow party lines but now are often just as much defined by which side of the culture wars you're on. 

I'll give an example, how often do you hear the following opinion: 'I like Corbyn but I think he's gone too far with his criticisms of Israel. On balance though I think I'll still support him.' 

Edited by Maximus Decimus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I think a big indicator is how accurately you can predict somebody's opinion even when it is quite unrelated to their usual points. 

I've made the point before on the culture wars thread about how often I've seen people who were initially on the left but against the direction of identity politics, suddenly talking about things like keeping the state out of private enterprise. 

They should be unrelated but far too often you can predict someone's opinion based on a whole host of unrelated things. They used to follow party lines but now are often just as much defined by which side of the culture wars you're on.  

I think that is bringing the same perspective to things. 

I mentioned in a previous thread and it seems to bear out that Brexit, skepticism of climate change and believing the increase obesity as entirely a matter of individual discipline should not on the surface be connected.  But,those views see each item as discreet.  The other extreme is a rejection of individual responsibiliity for a collective guilt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Farmduck said:

 

Excuse me for replying before I listen.

I was toying with expanding my reply above.

Saintslass rather disagreed with me that the essence of conservatism is wariness of the new or different.  I would say it seems to be well documented that people more likely to react with fear (as opposed to cowardice) are more conservative.  And, there is a good argument for conservatism that goes along with that, as Edmund Burke set out.

I also think there is another angle.  When you start you politics can seem naive to some, which is perhaps how Oxford is seen.  Simple solutions are presented to the world's problems.  Then, you find it is more difficult than that and the reaction to this quandry is how peoples politics are often shaped.  We see the same in discussions on the main board, the naive think we can set clubs up anywhere and the game will spread, then the reality is that that does not work and the heartlands are struggling.  The conservative approach is to conserve the heartlands and see expansionism as naive, the alternative radical approach is to accept it is difficuly, see the danger in not adapting and try something new for changing conditions (which might well be misguided).  To the conservative mindset, both naivity and pragmatic radical appear to be identically naive.  To the naive, both conservatism and pragmatic radicalism appear to be stubborn, stupid and bigoted.  To radical pragmatism, both the other two seem stupid and missing the point.  Much like rock, paper, scissors, all three will be right at different times and the challenge is to choose correctly.

I can see the attraction of conservatism far more as I am middle aged.  Personally, I see that as a symptom of ageing and reading a great deal of conservative literature to try and understand.  Many people mistake their ageing for wisdom. 

I think it was Erik Erikson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Erikson  who spoke about different psychological challenges in life, that must lead to the psyche adapting if not to fall into bitterness?  My impression is that bitterness can often find recourse in hard right politics or populism (i.e. blaming an evil external force for corrupting the righteous people and society - left wing int eh southern hemisphere and right wing in the northern hemisphere).  Failure of relationships with women and sexual fustration are associated with the hard right, if you consider yourself to be exceptionally clever as well it mgiht be alt-right.  Being clever and thinking you are far cleverer than you actually are seems to lead to libertarianism. 

Then there is the perception of connectivity issue I raised a few points back:

Generally, young women who are more insecure will be the most likely to go for the SJW path, of naive politics, combining righteous virtue (genuinely) with a mild authoratarian background.  I think heavy indiviual responsibility will seem like blaming them, just as people who do not see connectivity will take any comment on a wide social problem as a personal accusation (the upset over the #metoo campaign is where these two perceptions clashed).

There are the conspiracy theorists, who fit in with the populists.  They are frequently gullible, but think they are clever.  As people are always pulling the wool over their eyes and other people are stupider, it stands to reason that the sheeple know nothing.  Being gullible, they also swallow these theories and manage to be wrong every time (a little bitterness from a conspiracy fanatic who thought Hillsborough on the other hand was whining Scousers).

My politics is pretty much what would be expected of my personality and demographic.  I do not manage to elevate myself above such things.

Some people with lower confidence seem to want a figure to look up to and tell them what to do.  Combine this with fear of different and it might be why more women vote Tory.

PS: My feminist (Danish, very different to UK feminist) girlfriend tells me the joke of the Alt-right is they start comments with "Well actually.....", i.e. not as rational as they think they are.

Edited by Bob8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Oh god not the ants and lobsters guy...

I disagree with him politically, as I think society is not in danger of collapse because women have campaigns against being molested.  But, his environ is a college campus.  In my time in the USA, I spent more time in areas that cried out for a Sanders solution, rather than terror at some people being over-zealous with PC.

But, I find him very reasonable.  I saw a video where Jim Jefferies persuaded him on a point:

 

This was presented as Peterson clearly losing, I think it shows him as open minded.  I suspect more on this board would have evaded, pretended a different example had been made, suggested there was no comparison, asked him to simplify the question and then ridiculed the simplicity or one of a dozen other tricks ("I think you will find that is not valid", "I do not deal in hypotheticals", "You seem very naive" "DYOR").

Edited by Bob8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


League Express Yearbook 2018/19 - Order Now


Rugby League World - Nov 2018

Rugby League World - Nov 2018



League Express - Online Now

League Express - Every Monday