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RayCee

UK Immigrants & RL

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I was wondering why UK RL is not embraced more by ethnic minorities. RL has led the way in the past in this area. 

My guess is not much effort is made by clubs to reach out to them. I get the impression RL clubs in the UK are somewhat passive in the marketing department, with a few exceptions. 

Is that a fair assessment?

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13 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I was wondering why UK RL is not embraced more by ethnic minorities. RL has led the way in the past in this area. 

My guess is not much effort is made by clubs to reach out to them. I get the impression RL clubs in the UK are somewhat passive in the marketing department, with a few exceptions. 

Is that a fair assessment?

RayCee, first off I want to say I enjoy most of your contributions to the various RL Forums.  I'm always supportive of folks who list cycling as an interest. This thread you've started does puzzle me somewhat given its' title.  I'm assuming you mean immigrants to the UK.  You do know you've posted it on the TORONTO (as in CANADA)forum and so far not yet on any U.K. clubs forums?   Just wondering....I must be missing something.

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Just now, Cameron Highlander said:

RayCee, first off I want to say I enjoy most of your contributions to the various RL Forums.  I'm always supportive of folks who list cycling as an interest. This thread you've started does puzzle me somewhat given its' title.  I'm assuming you mean immigrants to the UK.  You do know you've posted it on the TORONTO (as in CANADA)forum and so far not yet on any U.K. clubs forums?   Just wondering....I must be missing something.

No, you're not missing something Cameron. I've posted in the wrong area. I've reported it and will see what transpires.

Edited by RayCee
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1 hour ago, Cameron Highlander said:

RayCee, first off I want to say I enjoy most of your contributions to the various RL Forums.  I'm always supportive of folks who list cycling as an interest. This thread you've started does puzzle me somewhat given its' title.  I'm assuming you mean immigrants to the UK.  You do know you've posted it on the TORONTO (as in CANADA)forum and so far not yet on any U.K. clubs forums?   Just wondering....I must be missing something.

There’s a Toronto forum?

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I'm struggling to find an example of a club, from any sport, that really targets immigrants in their marketing campaign. I think immigrants embrace a sport or they just don't, but it has nothing to do with what clubs do or don't do to attract them.

From my personal experience, as a half Italian growing up in Belgium, I naturally followed our common national sports, soccer and cycling. Then true that you will not find a lot of Italians playing field hockey, another major sport, in Belgium, because it's not popular in Italy but also it was usually seen as a rich kid sport, and well Italians don't live in the richest area there.

If they had introduced me to the sport in my poor school, or if I had a chance to go to a rich school, I would probably have followed hockey, asked my parents to go to the games, and voilà the entire immigrant family is hooked. So I think it's the key really, it should come from school or local development clubs more than from the big clubs, but of course they still have a job there to help these schools, as they do for any local kid, not just immigrants.

But my story was before internet. Now recent immigrants can use Internet to follow their national sports, to find compatriots near them to play their sports, they will not necessarily embrace local sports, and their kids might get hooked to their heritage sport more than to the local sport they learn at school. The huge French contingent that arrive every spring in Montreal, they basically go for soccer and rugby, not for hockey and baseball. We have a dozen of global sports now and they all compete against each other on the net, without borders. So immigrants will naturally play or watch what they know and I don't think you can really do anything to change that.

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Do the work and it pays off... see the photos I have attached. Muslim women wearing head gear in team colours.

Here is also some information from a 10 week program in nsw.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-rugby-league-is-targeting-australia-s-indian-community

This is at a Punjabi School... note the comment from the parent: 

“Kamaljeet Kaur Mandair said she is happy for her son to participate in the pilot.   

"Kids from different religions and cultures coming together to support the Australian culture," she said.”

 

1273B583-E8F8-469A-BC8D-7222209E8190.jpeg

CF4309BD-8320-4C8F-99EB-11C693D18B43.jpeg

Edited by Copa
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In this country we don't target any community full stop from a RFL point. 

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1 hour ago, Copa said:

Do the work and it pays off... see the photos I have attached. Muslim women wearing head gear in team colours.

Here is also some information from a 10 week program in nsw.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-rugby-league-is-targeting-australia-s-indian-community

This is at a Punjabi School... note the comment from the parent: 

“Kamaljeet Kaur Mandair said she is happy for her son to participate in the pilot.   

"Kids from different religions and cultures coming together to support the Australian culture," she said.”

 

1273B583-E8F8-469A-BC8D-7222209E8190.jpeg

CF4309BD-8320-4C8F-99EB-11C693D18B43.jpeg

The Australian system seems to integrate immigrants far better than we do in the UK.

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1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

The Australian system seems to integrate immigrants far better than we do in the UK.

In Sydney, RL is well established in the schools so even if the actual migrants don't follow RL their kids will. Some migrants have been successful too which helps a lot. George Peponis captained the Kangaroos back in 1979 and he was born in Greece.

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6 hours ago, RayCee said:

I was wondering why UK RL is not embraced more by ethnic minorities

I think the answer will be found in a much wider aspect than just looking at RL as a sport.

And as my Dad used to say there are some who. if they owned a park, wouldn't let a bird fly in it.

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13 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I think the answer will be found in a much wider aspect than just looking at RL as a sport.

And as my Dad used to say there are some who. if they owned a park, wouldn't let a bird fly in it.

Thats true, Football is all encompassing in the UK, it permeates every aspect of society yet has trouble in finding players of south asian origin yet there are many cricketers. There is a cultural thing in this country where certain things are only for certain people and never the twain shall meet.

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To the OP - which particular "Ethnic minorities" did you have in mind? Given you could produce a definition that put nearly everyone into some sort of "ethnic" or other "minority".

I can comment on one specific, since I recall discussions with the club about it a few years ago, and that is the Muslim community of South Asian descent. When the club had the resources to make a big push into schools, it proved very hard to make significant inroads into that community.  The main reason, apparently, was seemingly because (in the main) there was a cultural resistance to engagement in contact sports. The parents were generally much happier with their kids playing cricket (especially) or soccer, and did not want their kids taking up rugby (or either code). That was how it was explained to me, anyway.

It was not for the want of trying by the club's marketing effort, since there was (and remains) a massive untapped (unavailable?) resource on the doorstep.

 

Edited by Adeybull
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There is big polish and eastern European population in the North that we really should be able to tap in to. We have had a bit of history in getting those communities involved as well.

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10 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

To the OP - which particular "Ethnic minorities" did you have in mind? Given you could produce a definition that put nearly everyone into some sort of "ethnic" or other "minority".

I can comment on one specific, since I recall discussions with the club about it a few years ago, and that is the Muslim community of South Asian descent. When the club had the resources to make a big push into schools, it proved very hard to make significant inroads into that community.  The main reason, apparently, was seemingly because (in the main) there was a cultural resistance to engagement in contact sports. The parents were generally much happier with their kids playing cricket (especially) or soccer, and did not want their kids taking up rugby (or either code). That was how it was explained to me, anyway.

It was not for the want of trying by the club's marketing effort, since there was (and remains) a massive untapped (unavailable?) resource on the doorstep.

 

That seems logical. From what little I see of rugby union there’s very little evidence of players from an Asian background involved.

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I noticed on a certain website the question about when will England have an Asian player.

People with origins from South Asia seem to be fairly well represented when it come's to following the roundball game.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

There is big polish and eastern European population in the North that we really should be able to tap in to. We have had a bit of history in getting those communities involved as well.

Are they Kiwis?

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Just now, Mister Ting said:

People with origins from South Asia seem to be fairly well represented when it come's to following the roundball game.

Genuine question but does spectating lead to participating in large numbers? I appreciate the fact that you may not have a clue.

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats true, Football is all encompassing in the UK, it permeates every aspect of society yet has trouble in finding players of south asian origin yet there are many cricketers. There is a cultural thing in this country where certain things are only for certain people and never the twain shall meet.

This is kinda true, but also things do change at certain levels. There may not be many (any?) professional South Asian soccer players, but certainly in London and Manchester which I'm familiar with, there are loads playing recreationally in 5 a side leagues etc and far more Asians attend matches and watch on TV than their used to. 

When I first started going to Spurs with my dad in the early 80s, we were just about the only brown faces there. Now, it's completely different. 

As we all know, football has changed completely since those days so this is part and parcel of that, and there is no one simple answer or explaination. And of course "communities" are not a homogenous block but differ widely, between each other and even within. 

But as far as tapping these communities in the heartland goes, I wonder if rather than focusing on schools and participation, if there was to be a push, totally go at it as a spectator entertainment thing. Almost no one who attends a Toronto Wolfpack match has ever held a rugby ball, but they do know a good family day out when they see one. Of course this completely applies to the vast number of ethnically English people who don't seem to care for RL in many of our towns as well!

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2 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Genuine question but does spectating lead to participating in large numbers? I appreciate the fact that you may not have a clue.

Oh bitchy!!!

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

There is big polish and eastern European population in the North that we really should be able to tap in to. We have had a bit of history in getting those communities involved as well.

Kris Radlinski's is obviously from Polish roots although born in Wigan. 

It seems those of Asian descent are well represented in Cricket. West Indian players have done well in many sports including RL but are usually found in Soccer. 

I was thinking about the large Asia communities in the north of England. I recall Ikram Butt as an outstanding example of what they could achieve but if parents aren't for it, then that's a real stumbling block. 

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21 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

To the OP - which particular "Ethnic minorities" did you have in mind? Given you could produce a definition that put nearly everyone into some sort of "ethnic" or other "minority".

I can comment on one specific, since I recall discussions with the club about it a few years ago, and that is the Muslim community of South Asian descent. When the club had the resources to make a big push into schools, it proved very hard to make significant inroads into that community.  The main reason, apparently, was seemingly because (in the main) there was a cultural resistance to engagement in contact sports. The parents were generally much happier with their kids playing cricket (especially) or soccer, and did not want their kids taking up rugby (or either code). That was how it was explained to me, anyway.

It was not for the want of trying by the club's marketing effort, since there was (and remains) a massive untapped (unavailable?) resource on the doorstep.

 

Thanks Adey, interesting. I just posted up thread on whether the focus should be spectators, rather than participation.

I'd be interested to know, at the height of Bullmania did the club see any more South Asians through the doors? Who were those extra 8000 fans? 

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1 minute ago, RayCee said:

Kris Radlinski's is obviously from Polish roots although born in Wigan. 

It seems those of Asian descent are well represented in Cricket. West Indian players have done well in many sports including RL but are usually found in Soccer. 

I was thinking about the large Asia communities in the north of England. I recall Ikram Butt as an outstanding example of what they could achieve but if parents aren't for it, then that's a real stumbling block. 

I would say people of African origin (West Indians and West Africans) are probably over represented in certain sports. This seems to be the same in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

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It will start at some point. Obviously Mik Oledski is Polish born and in SL now. Citing Asian as a term does generalise somewhat. At the Bulls we have had Sikh fans for decades following us to most games. In addition it depends what their heritage is with regards to games. As posted earlier Cricket is an obsession for many people of Indian and Pakistani background.

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