yipyee Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Today has debunked the following myths: 1. Expansion into France has failed 2. French players are squad players and not key players for Catalans 3. McNamara is a rubbish coach who won't win anything and doesn't know what he's doing. 4. No one watches Catalans away from home 5. The BBC secretly hate RL and promote union as much as they can. 6. Catalan cant win away from home. 7. The French bottle it in the big games 8. Richard Lewis was wrong to put Catalans into a British SL and protect them with liecensing. 9. Attendances matter and is what should be focussed on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Didn’t realise many of those were myths, but I agree with all but your last point. Crowd figures are critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said: Crowd figures are critical. No they are important but not critical. And I think the myth is they're the be all and end all. Look at the impact in media terms a news worthy story for which most papers don't even have an appropriate Journalist to cover. If you have a favourite paper and they don't have an RL correspondent now might be the time to remind them that's the coverage equivalent of being caught with your trousers down! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, Oxford said: No they are important but not critical. And I think the myth is they're the be all and end all. Look at the impact in media terms a news worthy story for which most papers don't even have an appropriate Journalist to cover. If you have a favourite paper and they don't have an RL correspondent now might be the time to remind them that's the coverage equivalent of being caught with your trousers down! Media coverage is critical too, but don’t fool yourself into thinking crowd numbers aren’t critical. In fact, crowd numbers are the essence of professional sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: In fact, crowd numbers are the essence of professional sport. And created as much by media coverage as good marketing Good media coverage = That's an event I'd like to go to = Londoners turning up to the opening of a sports envelope. Whereas getting TGG fans to turn up to a very special event, the chance of a new name on't cup is a marketing person's nightmare! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopdog Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Media coverage is critical too, but don’t fool yourself into thinking crowd numbers aren’t critical. In fact, crowd numbers are the essence of professional sport. Please explain if crowd numbers are so critical why do so many games in the NRL have poor attendances? I suggest viewing figures is now the essence of sport , that's what brings in the sponsorship , tv deals etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 It's the TV deal with Sky that allows the game to be professional. Soccer makes far more in TV than gate. Union traditionally has poor attendances but gain large sponsorship deals. SO attendances aren't important it's the viewing figures ie armchair fans that is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TboneFromTO Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 13 minutes ago, snoopdog said: Please explain if crowd numbers are so critical why do so many games in the NRL have poor attendances? I suggest viewing figures is now the essence of sport , that's what brings in the sponsorship , tv deals etc. When you look at e-sports (don't laugh) you see over a million people watching tournament streams even when they don't have a live audience. As rubbish as it could be, with technology we could see a move to smaller stadiums with larger viewerships online/broadcast. The dystopian version of this of course has the sport played in an area with no spectators, with just TV feed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markos Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Its no good comparing RL to Football when it comes to TV deals. Football teams in the PL will break even and better on the TV deal alone. Rugby League teams won't do the same over here, therefore at least for the moment, crowd figures are important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markos Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said: When you look at e-sports (don't laugh) you see over a million people watching tournament streams even when they don't have a live audience. As rubbish as it could be, with technology we could see a move to smaller stadiums with larger viewerships online/broadcast. The dystopian version of this of course has the sport played in an area with no spectators, with just TV feed Do the millions of E-sports fans pay for their live streams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TboneFromTO Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Just now, Markos said: Do the millions of E-sports fans pay for their live streams? Nope(well some people can subscribe to a teams channel for a fee - which is I guess the equivalent to being a season ticket holder) Money comes mostly from the advertising. Enough so that they have commentators, stats analysis, reporters and instant replay just like the real deal. When I first stumbled upon it I found it so fascinating.... Oh yeah, the players get paid well too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonfan Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Maybe if the games looked better on tv then eventually more people would actually want to go? i thought the attendance for the Salford v Widnes game on Sky didn’t look great when the Sky pundits were trying so hard to hype it up so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, snoopdog said: Please explain if crowd numbers are so critical why do so many games in the NRL have poor attendances? I suggest viewing figures is now the essence of sport , that's what brings in the sponsorship , tv deals etc. I can’t believe people on this forum are willing to argue that crowd figures are not a critical measure of a spectator sports success. Suggesting otherwise is arguing for arguments sake. Some people better get a real sharp grasp of reality or the world will likely swallow them up. Do you actually think that crowds of sub 10k are considered acceptable in the NRL. All NRL clubs with crowd averages at sub 15k average will consider those figures to be in their top three priorities. Yes, crowd numbers are critical. Wake up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, Oxford said: And created as much by media coverage as good marketing For heaven’s sake, this is not an either or argument. Anyone thinking media coverage is not critical to the success of a professional sport is equally delusional to the person thinking paid spectators (you know, people that are willing to hand over their hard earned to a club directly) are not critical to a professional sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonfan Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: I can’t believe people on this forum are willing to argue that crowd figures are not a critical measure of a spectator sports success. Suggesting otherwise is arguing for arguments sake. Some people better get a real sharp grasp of reality or the world will likely swallow them up. Do you actually think that crowds of sub 10k are considered acceptable in the NRL. All NRL clubs with crowd averages at sub 15k average will consider those figures to be in their top three priorities. Yes, crowd numbers are critical. Wake up! I am not sure. If people are watching on tv and the advertising revenue is good does the attendance matter so much? Attendances and success cannot be pro rata across different sports. The attendance at the Wimbledon final can’t be that much but the tv revenue must be huge. I assume you mean paying attendance and not simple attendance by itself. I really don’t know I am just speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markos Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 TV rights fees, attendances, media coverage, advertising rates, sponsorship. All these things go hand in hand. But I'd suggest attendance is most likely the horse that leads those carts so to speak. Driving strong attendances with vociferous crowds creates a good TV product, stronger chance of better TV rights deals, better ad rates, and so on. Can it succeed in other configurations? (E.g. Low attendances but somehow a good TV and sponsorship deal) Yes. Are they likely to happen anytime soon? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluded pom? Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 51 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: I can’t believe people on this forum are willing to argue that crowd figures are not a critical measure of a spectator sports success. Suggesting otherwise is arguing for arguments sake. Some people better get a real sharp grasp of reality or the world will likely swallow them up. Do you actually think that crowds of sub 10k are considered acceptable in the NRL. All NRL clubs with crowd averages at sub 15k average will consider those figures to be in their top three priorities. Yes, crowd numbers are critical. Wake up! Wasn’t there a time in NRL (or whatever it was called the) in the 80s when attendances in Sydney were really poor because everyone was watching on TV? I think that was what instigated the admittance of Brisbane, Newcastle and the Gold Coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 57 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Anyone thinking media coverage is not critical to the success of a professional sport is equally delusional to the person thinking paid spectators (you know, people that are willing to hand over their hard earned to a club directly) are not critical to a professional sport. Never argued that, just that it is one element and mustn't ever be the only criteria we use, unless the whole point is to depress everyone, which is of course the avowed goal for some. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 Football clubs add more hospitality seats than gross numbers as the attendance figure doesn't matter, it's the income from the fans that do. Attendance figures aren't as crucial as made out. You could fill a stadium with free/cheap tickets and get the same revenue for only selling a tenth of the tickets. 2 examples Saracens playing at Wembley with tickets a fiver a time. But they needed to sell over 60k tickets to break even. Good attendance but irrelevant to producing income. Bradford selling 80 pound season tickets (from memory?) And needing to get the begging buckets out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Oxford said: Never argued that, just that it is one element and mustn't ever be the only criteria we use, unless the whole point is to depress everyone, which is of course the avowed goal for some. Pardon, I misunderstood. I thought you were arguing against the importance of crowd sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 I’m not sure all of those are firmly established myths , more the opinions of some people or just wrong . I’d be interested if ‘ the French ‘ is just in a rugby league context as if by memory serves they did ok in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, DavidM said: I’m not sure all of those are firmly established myths I think enough people have espoused them often enough on here to merit the title Myth. And they were blown away! Mind you they're very resilient so they'll be back! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Funkhouser Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 2 hours ago, westlondonfan said: I am not sure. If people are watching on tv and the advertising revenue is good does the attendance matter so much? Attendances and success cannot be pro rata across different sports. The attendance at the Wimbledon final can’t be that much but the tv revenue must be huge. I assume you mean paying attendance and not simple attendance by itself. I really don’t know I am just speculating. Wimbledon centre court holds jut shy of 15,000, admission for the final day was £210.00 - even allowing for all the complementaries you are looking at around £3 million for 1 day...nearly 2 seasons worth of Sky money for our clubs...spectators over the Wimbledon fortnight contribute over £50 million to Wimbledon...the BBC contribute £60 million in TV rights...so yes paying spectators (live or otherwise) are more than vital for professional sport...just ask Richard Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulga Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 1 hour ago, deluded pom? said: Wasn’t there a time in NRL (or whatever it was called the) in the 80s when attendances in Sydney were really poor because everyone was watching on TV? I think that was what instigated the admittance of Brisbane, Newcastle and the Gold Coast. Even now crowds aren't great but TV viewership is. PS, these figures don't include regional viewers where the NRL does VERY well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Plow Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Crowds for every final at New Wembley. Last 2 are the only ones under 75K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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