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The Future is League

Denver test is dead

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Well the point of the game in Denver was proof of concept, and despite some positives, Moore hasn't delivered on promises, that should be it for him. 

On the US, if we are serious about it, then it doesn't have to be the end. We know that the build up to Denver was appalling, but we had a very decent crowd as a starter for 10. Not big enough to have confidence to stage a world cup there, but this is exactly where the second RLIF tournament should have slotted in. It could be an 8 team tournament even based around one City or State, reducing the risk.

I do worry that the 2025 WC will just be Down Under, may be the final in NZ. I can live with WCs doing that if we then have other tournaments in other nations to drive development.

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59 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

But it’s not just some random bloke in New Zealand he’s the CEO of the NZRL.

I never mentioned random bloke. Reporting involves two sides of the argument or story. Imagine just giving a quick call to Alec Salmond over those recent allegations and then writing an article saying "nothing to see here".

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The crowd for the England Vs NZ game is Denver was the biggest crowd Rugby League has had to date in the USA

Edited by kiwis 13 6

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I never mentioned random bloke. Reporting involves two sides of the argument or story. Imagine just giving a quick call to Alec Salmond over those recent allegations and then writing an article saying "nothing to see here".

Not really, AS isn’t a decision maker in his issues. If the head of the NZRL says ‘no more Denver tests’ you can be sure that no more are happening. 

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The USA is quite a big old place, why does it mean the end of anything? If someone is willing to put on a test elsewhere, then go for it. There's literally loads of potential venues.

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1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

I’m pretty sure they didn’t so why would we send a World Cup to a place that showed no interest in holding or funding it? 

TBF, I don’t think any nation bid for it. 2021 was between Eng and US. When Eng won rights to 21, the RLIF gave the US bid a tentative nod for 2025.

2025 was never carved in stone.

Edited by Sports Prophet

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8 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The USA is quite a big old place, why does it mean the end of anything? If someone is willing to put on a test elsewhere, then go for it. There's literally loads of potential venues.

Very true John but if MS renege on their commitments then any third party proposing a game in the US will have to pay the competing teams upfront. I can’t see any future proposed games happening any other way IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

TBF, I don’t think any nation bid for it. 2021 was between Eng and US. When Eng won rights to 21, the RLIF gave the US bid a tentative nod for 2025.

2025 was never carved in stone.

Well there is one thing for sure, regardless of what happens between now and 2025. The RL loving media over there will continually bag the USA World Cup until they get their wish and it is held in a half full Townsville and Canberra again.

Edited by Scubby
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This is why Ricky Wilby is completely out of his depth trying to start a New York team. Here we had a promoter, who I'm assuming has plenty of experience in the US market, that still struggled to make a success of a one off event. Whereas Wilby is a former PE teacher from Huddersfield with no experience. let alone American experience, who is trying to start a team. Come on now

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Maybe next time the RL authorities will ask for all of the money upfront, if they decide to take part in such a venture.

Have the RFL and NZRL actually lost money, or is it just that they haven't received what they were supposed to? Did we at least cover the cost of playing the match?

 

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3 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

This is why Ricky Wilby is completely out of his depth trying to start a New York team. Here we had a promoter, who I'm assuming has plenty of experience in the US market, that still struggled to make a success of a one off event. Whereas Wilby is a former PE teacher from Huddersfield with no experience. let alone American experience, who is trying to start a team. Come on now

I'm sure those in the know Wilby proven right on this one :ninja:

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41 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Very true John but if MS renege on their commitments then any third party proposing a game in the US will have to pay the competing teams upfront. I can’t see any future proposed games happening any other way IMO.

Yeah, I can't disagree come to think of it.

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9 hours ago, Scubby said:

I am frustrated as you mate but would it be so difficult to get a statement from the RLIF about the 2025 WC or Moore sports themselves? Same as what is happening with UK reporting. It is not as if Rimmer and Elstone are hard to find FFS.

I'd agree with your general points on the hyperbole some (or most) of the Aussie journalists attach to RL related stories. Some of the stuff they write is utter rubbish.

However, according to Martyn Sadler on this week's Backchat, it's very difficult getting Rimmer or anyone at the RFL for a quote on anything at the moment. And if Moore Sports do still owe money, it's likely they'd make themselves as difficult to contact as possible. 

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Just now, thirteenthman said:

I'd agree with your general points on the hyperbole some (or most) of the Aussie journalists attach to RL related stories. Some of the stuff they write is utter rubbish.

However, according to Martyn Sadler on this week's Backchat, it's very difficult getting Rimmer or anyone at the RFL for a quote on anything at the moment. And if Moore Sports do still owe money, it's likely they'd make themselves as difficult to contact as possible. 

I agree. But any journalist knows that putting in "both RLIF and Moore Sports were contacted and refused/declined to comment" is just the basics of the profession. We were taught that on day one.

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10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I agree. But any journalist knows that putting in "both RLIF and Moore Sports were contacted and refused/declined to comment" is just the basics of the profession. We were taught that on day one.

We? The plot thickens.

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Just now, deluded pom? said:

We? The plot thickens.

Lol. Tis' true I was a journalist in my early 20s. Back in the noughties 😄

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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Lol. Tis' true I was a journalist in my early 20s. Back in the noughties 😄

You’re getting younger by the hour Scubster.

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Just now, deluded pom? said:

You’re getting younger by the hour Scubster.

It's all in the (stanley) genes mate.

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11 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The secret to a successful project is to have the difficult conversations at the start.

Something we never seem to learn as a sport.

At any point did nobody figure out the crowd wouldnt reach the break even point?

Or make an effort to ask how many people they thought they would get and had budgeted for.

If you dont want to get burnt in business you have to get "this is too good to be true part" and learn to walk away if people cant answer the difficult questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Dave T said:

On the US, if we are serious about it, then it doesn't have to be the end. We had a very decent crowd as a starter...

And a finisher.  A recurrent theme always appears in your posts where somehow the game grows and grows. It started with your idea we could grow crowds as you felt “marketing works” (actually it doesn’t always work, ask the thousands of businesses who go bust every year). So we could somehow market our way to the stars.

Then you were quick on the bandwagon of North American club growth. One after another they would grow the sport to a transatlantic league (funnily enough, people are now realising the only other real life applicant is dead in the water).   Now it appears that if only the Denver tests had carried on the 20K “starter” would have gone to 30K and then 40K. 

I suggest you replace your penchant for “positive thinking” into some realism and start to look for ideas as to how the game can survive in England and France.

11 hours ago, DavidM said:

Surely it’s perfect timing to further explore the French option

The French option started with ignoring Toulouse's 1996 SL bid and inventing the Paris disaster.  Nothing after that until Toulouse were again ignored for Catalans, and despite pushing for SL by playing Championship 2009-11, Toulouse were told to told to find a TV contract  and develop SL players before their entry would be considered.

So as it stands France have been pretty much held at bay, whilst North America has been courted as the games saviour with the World Cup dangled as a carrot. The Denver test and it's promoter failed, and there are no North American investors only an Aussie with an English/Aussie team that will do zilch to develop a Canadian team capable of competing in that World Cup, and will probably pip Tolouse to promotion (without a paying TV contract or any home grown players). Nothing at all "Perfect" in the timing here David.

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

And a finisher.  A recurrent theme always appears in your posts where somehow the game grows and grows. It started with your idea we could grow crowds as you felt “marketing works” (actually it doesn’t always work, ask the thousands of businesses who go bust every year). So we could somehow market our way to the stars.

Then you were quick on the bandwagon of North American club growth. One after another they would grow the sport to a transatlantic league (funnily enough, people are now realising the only other real life applicant is dead in the water).   Now it appears that if only the Denver tests had carried on the 20K “starter” would have gone to 30K and then 40K. 

I suggest you replace your penchant for “positive thinking” into some realism and start to look for ideas as to how the game can survive in England and France.

The French option started with ignoring Toulouse's 1996 SL bid and inventing the Paris disaster.  Nothing after that until Toulouse were again ignored for Catalans, and despite pushing for SL by playing Championship 2009-11, Toulouse were told to told to find a TV contract  and develop SL players before their entry would be considered.

So as it stands France have been pretty much held at bay, whilst North America has been courted as the games saviour with the World Cup dangled as a carrot. The Denver test and it's promoter failed, and there are no North American investors only an Aussie with an English/Aussie team that will do zilch to develop a Canadian team capable of competing in that World Cup, and will probably pip Tolouse to promotion (without a paying TV contract or any home grown players). Nothing at all "Perfect" in the timing here David.

Cool

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On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, Yorkshire Knight said:

This is why Ricky Wilby is completely out of his depth trying to start a New York team. Here we had a promoter, who I'm assuming has plenty of experience in the US market, that still struggled to make a success of a one off event. Whereas Wilby is a former PE teacher from Huddersfield with no experience. let alone American experience, who is trying to start a team. Come on now

The NYC club has set its sights for 2020. I hope it comes to fruition but I highly doubt it will.

''Wilby, a long-time official with French rugby league outfit Catalans, is also hoping that a New York franchise will join the Super League or the Championship by 2020''.

It's an article that's a month or two old but it's the last update we've heard from Wilby that I know of.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/plans-to-make-new-york-rugby-league-international-a-double-header-20180725-p4ztjb.html

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