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The Future is League

Denver test is dead

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What is/was Wilby’s “long term official” role at Catalans? I can’t ever recall seeing him linked with CD until that article.

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2 hours ago, Omott91 said:

The NYC club has set its sights for 2020. I hope it comes to fruition but I highly doubt it will.

''Wilby, a long-time official with French rugby league outfit Catalans, is also hoping that a New York franchise will join the Super League or the Championship by 2020''.

It's an article that's a month or two old but it's the last update we've heard from Wilby that I know of.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/plans-to-make-new-york-rugby-league-international-a-double-header-20180725-p4ztjb.html

This helps explain why he thought to hold a Catalans match in New York, despite the fact that New Yorkers have never even heard of Perpignan.  What a fool!

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On 9/1/2018 at 6:32 PM, Scubby said:

Perhaps if he did some proper research via the RLIF and Moore Sports themselves then we would get a better story. Same with other stories based in the UK.

How easy would it be to get Moore Sports to answer anything?

http://mooresportsintl.com/

There does not appear to be any contact detail anywhere obvious, an unusual situation for a business to have.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

The phrase con artist springs to mind

He conned a lot of people to get a MLB game on in Sydney then.

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8 hours ago, Allora said:

How easy would it be to get Moore Sports to answer anything?

http://mooresportsintl.com/

There does not appear to be any contact detail anywhere obvious, an unusual situation for a business to have.

That website is down at present and showing a parked domain for GoDaddy.

Danny Lockwood states in this mornings League Weekly that he has emailed Jason Moore (he apparently interviewed him a few years back) but is still waiting for a response. 

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There's a report on the Sydney Morning Herald website suggesting the Kiwis will be playing Tonga mid season next year and, not entirely surprising, the proposed NRL games in the US are off as well. 

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6 hours ago, thirteenthman said:

That website is down at present and showing a parked domain for GoDaddy.

Danny Lockwood states in this mornings League Weekly that he has emailed Jason Moore (he apparently interviewed him a few years back) but is still waiting for a response. 

I am just surprised after the Allen Stanford incident with Cricket people are not more switched on.

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9 hours ago, thirteenthman said:

That website is down at present and showing a parked domain for GoDaddy.

Danny Lockwood states in this mornings League Weekly that he has emailed Jason Moore (he apparently interviewed him a few years back) but is still waiting for a response. 

So it looks like the Aussies got their way in the end, all their bitching ultimately paid off for them.  For the time being they can continue to be the big fish in the small pond which is RL.  With everything relating to more potential American teams entering the RFL structure having gone quiet, it could stay that way too.

What serious investor would come anywhere near the sport now?

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Hopefully this has killed off the ludicrous USA RLWC idea. A failed tournament there would have set the international game back a generation.

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14 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

Be interesting to hear from the RFL on this.. Kiwi's seem to have washed their hands of it.

Good luck with that 

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5 hours ago, eal said:

Hopefully this has killed off the ludicrous USA RLWC idea. A failed tournament there would have set the international game back a generation.

And what if they’d at least matched or bettered the half arsed effort put in by the Aussies last time they hosted?

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22 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

The phrase con artist springs to mind

Steady on there. As DP says Mr. Moore has a good track record as a sports promoter. North America was always a massive risk and Moore's role was to take that risk. That didn't mean he would guarantee any losses promoting the sport and the World cup over the eight years this was supposed to run until the groundwork was laid by Moore for a World Cup that could at least break even.

Moore didn't believe Toronto was the way forward for promoting the sport there, but if clubs had followed in New York, Boston, and Montreal that could have done some sort of good (notwithstanding the bad of them ousting four SL clubs here) in terms of raising awareness of the game over there.

Until Moore or his representatives make a statement we cannot be sure of what has happened, but the obvious conclusion so far is that the interest/income in the Denver test fell so far short of target that the risk of repeating any sort of major promotional event in North America is now too great. This would mean that DaveT's idea this match was a "good start" at 20,000 is another piece of gross wishful thinking, and we really do need to get into the real world as far as our sport is concerned.

7 hours ago, Big Picture said:

What serious investor would come anywhere near the sport now?

Never mind "now" which serious NA investor wished to follow Argyle into the sport? All these big city North American cubs who were supposed to be on their way and two years on nothing except Ricky Wilby still trying to live the dream. There is no doubt that the provisional award of the 2025 World Cup to North America was used as justification for Perez's Transatlantic league.

The prizes Perez offered were the conversion of grid iron players to swell the player pool both for here and ultimately for the World Cups. The riches from the TV deal he spoke of for a Transatlantic league were to benefit clubs here (well only the half dozen SL clubs here not relegated to make way for this league) and in time the implication was the World Cup would attract a massive TV deal too.

You have been brave enough in recent months to be pretty straightforward on North America and Toronto. But despite us being a good number of posts into this thread the Toronto Wolfpack crowd are conspicuous by their absence.

As we glide through the Qualifiers we appear to be looking at a possible Toronto.v.Toulouse game to decide who wins the right to apply for promotion to Superleague. I say apply because as has been confirmed just this week they are guest clubs only and as such won't vote in the EGM.

If Toronto win, the collapse of the World Cup plans for North America, the realisation North American investment and North American TV money is dead, and the realisation there will be no rush for anyone to start playing Rugby League there, pretty much leave's TWP as essentially an English club with an Australian owner 3,000 miles away from Superleague with no academy ever likely. If Toulouse win they offer so much more to Superleague at a time when Les Catalans appear to have come of age. It's no good the TWP mob baying at me, Elstone himself has already commented on how much Toulouse can bring to the game and how although TWP are a great club with great people 3,000 miles is a long way away, and the World Cup looks dead.

A fascinating scenario is possible where the winners of a final may see the prize handed to the losers............

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8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

So it looks like the Aussies got their way in the end, all their bitching ultimately paid off for them.  For the time being they can continue to be the big fish in the small pond which is RL.  With everything relating to more potential American teams entering the RFL structure having gone quiet, it could stay that way too.

What serious investor would come anywhere near the sport now?

Danny Lockwood in the League Weekly blames it all on the Aussies as well. And I don't understand his logic either.

The Denver test went ahead. OK, maybe confirmation came later than was expected, but it went ahead. Staging a RL match in Denver was always going to be a risk, but maybe Moore Sports financial guarantees were unrealistic. There initial hopes crowd wise certainly were.

And the argument I've read elsewhere on these forums that Americans who were largely unaware of RL's existence were put off attending because of newspaper reports in Sydney, is frankly ridiculous. 

Bearing in mind we haven't got official confirmation yet, if Moore Sports are unable to stage the RLWC, it will surely be due to their own financial mismanagement. It was always going to be a huge leap from staging one game in Denver in 2018 to staging a full blown RLWC just 7 years later.

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41 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

And what if they’d at least matched or bettered the half arsed effort put in by the Aussies last time they hosted?

As the RLWC is the RLIF's only money generator, it's one hell of a gamble to take.

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9 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

Danny Lockwood in the League Weekly blames it all on the Aussies as well. And I don't understand his logic either.

The Denver test went ahead. OK, maybe confirmation came later than was expected, but it went ahead. Staging a RL match in Denver was always going to be a risk, but maybe Moore Sports financial guarantees were unrealistic. There initial hopes crowd wise certainly were.

And the argument I've read elsewhere on these forums that Americans who were largely unaware of RL's existence were put off attending because of newspaper reports in Sydney, is frankly ridiculous. 

Bearing in mind we haven't got official confirmation yet, if Moore Sports are unable to stage the RLWC, it will surely be due to their own financial mismanagement. It was always going to be a huge leap from staging one game in Denver in 2018 to staging a full blown RLWC just 7 years later.

The main problem with the Aussies was the fact that it was only confirmed so late and they kept chipping away as the credibility of it and there was a risk of it being called off.

Against that backdrop getting sponsors and corporates and tv deals on board will have been more difficult.

But, I was surprised that Moore didn't manage to get a single sponsor to invest in this. There wasn't a single ad board at the ground, apart from the Denver tourist board. The Aussies actions may have impacted on sponsors in England and Australia/NZ, but surely Moore had some connections in Denver otherwise what was the point.

So they certainly impacted it in my view, but he still performed poorly.

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36 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

The Denver test went ahead. OK, maybe confirmation came later than was expected, but it went ahead. Staging a RL match in Denver was always going to be a risk, but maybe Moore Sports financial guarantees were unrealistic. There initial hopes crowd wise certainly were.

Its hard to sell tickets when people are unsure if the event will even take place. Any American with twitter would have been aware of the actions to stop it.  I wonder how it would have gone if the NRL had gotten behind the idea. On that particular weekend it did outsell the Pacific Tests in Australia (which to be fair was a sell out in a smaller venue) so its not like it was a massive failure. 

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42 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

As the RLWC is the RLIF's only money generator, it's one hell of a gamble to take.

The NRL still haven’t fulfilled their obligation for meeting the return of the last World Cup. They generated far less profit than they should’ve which is now hindering development 

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6 minutes ago, B rad said:

Its hard to sell tickets when people are unsure if the event will even take place. Any American with twitter would have been aware of the actions to stop it.  I wonder how it would have gone if the NRL had gotten behind the idea. On that particular weekend it did outsell the Pacific Tests in Australia (which to be fair was a sell out in a smaller venue) so its not like it was a massive failure. 

Of the small number of RL fans in the US who would even have been aware of the whole saga, those following it on Twitter would also then know the game was confirmed and played. Most of the Americans at that game were doubtless blissfully unaware of what had gone on. 

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6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

The NRL still haven’t fulfilled their obligation for meeting the return of the last World Cup. They generated far less profit than they should’ve which is now hindering development 

And if certain financial guarantees were given they should be met. I wouldn't argue with you. If it does hinder development, all the more reason to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

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12 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

And if certain financial guarantees were given they should be met. I wouldn't argue with you. If it does hinder development, all the more reason to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

To make sure it doesn’t happen again, would mean to not take it back to Australia 

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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Steady on there. As DP says Mr. Moore has a good track record as a sports promoter. North America was always a massive risk and Moore's role was to take that risk. That didn't mean he would guarantee any losses promoting the sport and the World cup over the eight years this was supposed to run until the groundwork was laid by Moore for a World Cup that could at least break even.

Moore didn't believe Toronto was the way forward for promoting the sport there, but if clubs had followed in New York, Boston, and Montreal that could have done some sort of good (notwithstanding the bad of them ousting four SL clubs here) in terms of raising awareness of the game over there.

Until Moore or his representatives make a statement we cannot be sure of what has happened, but the obvious conclusion so far is that the interest/income in the Denver test fell so far short of target that the risk of repeating any sort of major promotional event in North America is now too great.

Moore has reneged on payments and the RFL is reportedly considering legal action, so something is up.

We know that it fell well short of target because Moore said he needed 35-40k to break even and it was 19k. The sad thing is it seemed fairly well promoted in Denver itself but was still a commercial flop. 

Then again, I never thought Mile High Stadium was a good idea. 19k in a soccer ground would have looked and felt much more suitable. And the NRL might not have kicked up such a fuss about altitude etc. 

In the end, it's another Milwaukee, no more no less. A historical curio.   

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2 hours ago, thirteenthman said:

As the RLWC is the RLIF's only money generator, it's one hell of a gamble to take.

Where's the $12 million the Aussies promised?

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