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NickWeaver

Should the Wolfpack Pounce on 7's player

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Should Toronto look to pick up a couple of players from the 7's squad as they are boycotting Canada training sessions in protest of the new restructure?

 

 

Rugby Canada's plan to have one centralized pool of men's players rather than having separate 15s and sevens training squads is off to a rocky start.

A source said 13 of the sevens players have boycotted training in suburban Victoria and secured legal representation out of concerns their pay is being reduced and their side of the sport is being minimized.

Co-captains Nate Hirayama and Harry Jones, meanwhile, took to social media to bang the drum for the sevens game — seen as taking a back seat to the 15s game under the reorganization.

"It's 2018. 7s is no longer just a development tool. We have to get with the times or we're going to get left behind," Hirayama tweeted above a picture of the Canadian team celebrating its victory at the 2017 Singapore Sevens.

Jones's tweet contained another photo of Singapore celebrations that showed the players hoisting coach Damian McGrath in the air.

"These players and staff have dedicated their lives and careers for moments like these. All we want is to keep chasing our dreams," Jones said.

In August, Rugby Canada announced it would centralize a group of 40 to 50 men under contract "to maximize the development of Canada's men's national team players."

The two squads essentially have trained apart in Langford, B.C., with separate coaches — with some 17 carded athletes in the sevens squad and up to 30 non-carded players in the 15s — although there has been some movement between the two. Canada's top 15s talent plays professionally overseas.

The reorganization is an admission that Canada does not have the depth to run the two programs separately — and also that Rugby Canada has to focus more on the 15s program to maintain badly needed World Rugby funding.

The reorganization has pitted the 15s against the sevens with a source describing the current situation as "toxic."

A Rugby Canada spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

Those in the sevens camp, whose ultimate goal is Olympic qualification, point to the different demands of the sevens game and say specialized training is needed. They also note the rising popularity of the sevens game.

The 15s stalwarts play down the need for special sevens training and point to the worldwide roots of the traditional version of the game.

Rugby Canada has said it will spread its resources among the blended centralized group. While athletes sign one contract, there is a scale of pay in the group with young prospects getting less.

Canada is currently ranked 23rd in the World Rugby 15s rankings. The Canadian men's sevens squad, meanwhile, finished ninth on the 2017-18 HSBC World Sevens Series.

Rugby Canada said it will continue to pursue Olympic men's sevens qualification, with the sevens program "also serving as a key development program" for the 15s team.

But the focus is clearly back on the 15s game. Lee Douglas, an assistant men's sevens coach, was an early casualty of the reorganization and is no longer with Rugby Canada. 

"Rugby Canada's board of directors has clearly stated that our men's fifteens program is the priority program for the union," Tim Powers, chair of Rugby Canada's board of directors, said in a statement in August. "In the environment in which we live, key core funding for our entire union is driven by our men's fifteens performance."

The Canadian men 15s side, which has never failed to qualify for the World Cup, is headed to a last-chance repechage tournament in November in its third and final attempt to crack the field for the 2019 World Cup.

"It's critically important for Rugby Canada and for Canadian rugby that we continue to have a men's 15s team that qualifies for the Rugby World Cup," CEO Allen Vansen said in August.

 

Follow @NeilMDavidson on Twitter

 

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3 minutes ago, NickWeaver said:

Should Toronto look to pick up a couple of players from the 7's squad as they are boycotting Canada training sessions in protest of the new restructure?

 

 

Rugby Canada's plan to have one centralized pool of men's players rather than having separate 15s and sevens training squads is off to a rocky start.

A source said 13 of the sevens players have boycotted training in suburban Victoria and secured legal representation out of concerns their pay is being reduced and their side of the sport is being minimized.

Co-captains Nate Hirayama and Harry Jones, meanwhile, took to social media to bang the drum for the sevens game — seen as taking a back seat to the 15s game under the reorganization.

"It's 2018. 7s is no longer just a development tool. We have to get with the times or we're going to get left behind," Hirayama tweeted above a picture of the Canadian team celebrating its victory at the 2017 Singapore Sevens.

Jones's tweet contained another photo of Singapore celebrations that showed the players hoisting coach Damian McGrath in the air.

"These players and staff have dedicated their lives and careers for moments like these. All we want is to keep chasing our dreams," Jones said.

In August, Rugby Canada announced it would centralize a group of 40 to 50 men under contract "to maximize the development of Canada's men's national team players."

The two squads essentially have trained apart in Langford, B.C., with separate coaches — with some 17 carded athletes in the sevens squad and up to 30 non-carded players in the 15s — although there has been some movement between the two. Canada's top 15s talent plays professionally overseas.

The reorganization is an admission that Canada does not have the depth to run the two programs separately — and also that Rugby Canada has to focus more on the 15s program to maintain badly needed World Rugby funding.

The reorganization has pitted the 15s against the sevens with a source describing the current situation as "toxic."

A Rugby Canada spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

Those in the sevens camp, whose ultimate goal is Olympic qualification, point to the different demands of the sevens game and say specialized training is needed. They also note the rising popularity of the sevens game.

The 15s stalwarts play down the need for special sevens training and point to the worldwide roots of the traditional version of the game.

Rugby Canada has said it will spread its resources among the blended centralized group. While athletes sign one contract, there is a scale of pay in the group with young prospects getting less.

Canada is currently ranked 23rd in the World Rugby 15s rankings. The Canadian men's sevens squad, meanwhile, finished ninth on the 2017-18 HSBC World Sevens Series.

Rugby Canada said it will continue to pursue Olympic men's sevens qualification, with the sevens program "also serving as a key development program" for the 15s team.

But the focus is clearly back on the 15s game. Lee Douglas, an assistant men's sevens coach, was an early casualty of the reorganization and is no longer with Rugby Canada. 

"Rugby Canada's board of directors has clearly stated that our men's fifteens program is the priority program for the union," Tim Powers, chair of Rugby Canada's board of directors, said in a statement in August. "In the environment in which we live, key core funding for our entire union is driven by our men's fifteens performance."

The Canadian men 15s side, which has never failed to qualify for the World Cup, is headed to a last-chance repechage tournament in November in its third and final attempt to crack the field for the 2019 World Cup.

"It's critically important for Rugby Canada and for Canadian rugby that we continue to have a men's 15s team that qualifies for the Rugby World Cup," CEO Allen Vansen said in August.

 

Follow @NeilMDavidson on Twitter

 

I don't think the international LEAGUE followers on here fully understand JUST how RIPE Vancouver is for Rugby League...its a plum just waiting to be plucked somehow.  YOUR ARTICLE JUST REINFORCES THIS POINT. 

If the test they had in Denver had been played in Vancouver it would have drawn 50 000 with full sponsorship...the city could have been turned to League and a mustard seed planted that would have grown quickly...sadly this is, was, and continues to be, a huge missed opportunity for League expansion.

The only question is how do you get them to play anyone?  Too far away for the English League...too far away for the NRL.   Too bad really because it really is ripe for the picking.

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13 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I don't think the international LEAGUE followers on here fully understand JUST how RIPE Vancouver is for Rugby League...its a plum just waiting to be plucked somehow.  YOUR ARTICLE JUST REINFORCES THIS POINT. 

If the test they had in Denver had been played in Vancouver it would have drawn 50 000 with full sponsorship...the city could have been turned to League and a mustard seed planted that would have grown quickly...sadly this is, was, and continues to be, a huge missed opportunity for League expansion.

The only question is how do you get them to play anyone?  Too far away for the English League...too far away for the NRL.   Too bad really because it really is ripe for the picking.

On top of that they would need assurances they can continue to play the Olympic form of rugby.....I'm sure that's a huge draw to it

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Canada rugby 7s players are no where near good enough for the Wolfpack.

This is change is well overdue from Rugby Canada. The national 15s game has been run into ground at the expense of some pointless 7s tournaments.  The whole focus should be on 15 a side, 7s is just a carnival sideshow.

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Rugby Canada will be knackered full stop if they don't qualify for the next world cup, they will lose significant funding.  It may tempt a few players to try out for the Wolfpack if nothing else is available in lower league pro union in Europe, but I personally think most would struggle at Championship level rugby league.  Some may have potential, however, to go further.

I dare say if any top level Union players did approach the Wolfpack the currently cautious cooperation would quickly go out the window.

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5 hours ago, CanaBull said:

I dare say if any top level Union players did approach the Wolfpack the currently cautious cooperation would quickly go out the window.

Hey Canabull, hope you are feeling well!  I laughed at your statement above....what an understatement!

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Admir Cejanovic and Adam Zaruba are two guys I would definitely pursue.  Zaruba has been taking a crack at the NFL but he has just been cut by the Philadelphia Eagles.  He may land in the CFL though as Saskatchewan owns his rightals.  

Big Athletic Guys that are good footballers and can also play an 80 min game of league.

Rugby Canada has been taking top u20 players for the past 5-6 years and making them play Sevens, wasting tonnes of potential excellent XVs talent.

 

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Admir Cejanovic and Adam Zaruba are two guys I would definitely pursue.  Zaruba has been taking a crack at the NFL but he has just been cut by the Philadelphia Eagles.  He may land in the CFL though as Saskatchewan owns his rightals.  

Big Athletic Guys that are good footballers and can also play an 80 min game of league.

How do you know they could manage 80 mins of league CR? It’s a totally different fitness to union. 

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Just now, deluded pom? said:

How do you know they could manage 80 mins of league CR? It’s a totally different fitness to union. 

If Ashton Sims or Darcy Lussick can play League, so can Zaruba or Cejanovic.  I think both would make excellent League forwards just off build alone.  

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3 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

If Ashton Sims or Darcy Lussick can play League, so can Zaruba or Cejanovic.  I think both would make excellent League forwards just off build alone.  

I didn’t say they couldn’t play league. Do Sims and Lussick do 80 mins?

Edited by deluded pom?
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Just now, deluded pom? said:

Do Sims and Lussick do 80 mins?

Ok take 80 and make it 60 hahahahaha!

 

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3 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Why the laugh at my comment about Sims and Lussick CR?

Because of the semantics arguing about how long a player can stay on the pitch for :) as if that has any bearing on whether they will play professionally or not?  

An elite athlete is an elite athlete.  My point is Zaruba and Cejanovic are as fit and athletic as players on TWP at the Wolfpack.  Zaruba was a class u20 player for Canada but was wasted when Rugby Canada streamed him in to Sevens.  

Edited by CanadianRugger

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16 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Because of the semantics arguing about how long a player can stay on the pitch for :) as if that has any bearing on whether they will play professionally or not?  

An elite athlete is an elite athlete.  My point is Zaruba and Cejanovic are as fit and athletic as players on TWP at the Wolfpack.  Zaruba was a class u20 player for Canada but was wasted when Rugby Canada streamed him in to Sevens.  

But it’s horses for courses. Mo Farah may be an elite athlete but he was never good enough to win a sprint medal. Just because you can play union, a game with far more stoppages than league, for 80 mins it doesn’t mean you can automatically switch to league and easily do 80 mins. It’s a different kind of fitness. It’s why American or Canadian Footballers would struggle with league. They are trained for an explosive ten second stint not 80 mins of aerobic exercise.

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Zaruba especially could probably play NRL. You would have to have a very limited understanding of elite athletes to think otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, westside said:

Zaruba especially could probably play NRL. You would have to have a very limited understanding of elite athletes to think otherwise.

Guy is a beast, unfortunate he was cut by the Eagles but I wonder if he will take a crack at the CFL?  Saskatchewan own his rights and he could still make some decent money playing the CFL, probably better money than League.

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12 minutes ago, westside said:

Zaruba especially could probably play NRL. You would have to have a very limited understanding of elite athletes to think otherwise.

And I think you don’t understand rugby league. This guy has been cut from the NFL, I take it he doesn’t have a professional RU contract yet you seem to think he would play RL at the top level. If he’s that good why hasn’t he tried the NRL? Why hasn’t an NRL club come knocking on his door? It appears no elite professional sports team want this elite athlete. Why is that?

Edited by deluded pom?

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7 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Guy is a beast, unfortunate he was cut by the Eagles but I wonder if he will take a crack at the CFL?  Saskatchewan own his rights and he could still make some decent money playing the CFL, probably better money than League.

Better money than the NRL? Serious question as I don’t know the kind of money CFL players make.

Edited by deluded pom?

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2 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

And I think you don’t understand rugby league.

There are tonnes of players over here who could transition, they don't for various reasons, mostly monetary.  How many people are going to drop everything they are doing, to take a crack at a sport they have never even played, with no guarantee they will achieve any sort of financial security?

Here is a great example of a crossover athlete though, who you may know from this video:

Mike Pyke was a Canadian Rugby Union International and Professional Player for Edinburgh and US Montauban in the Top 14.  At the ripe age of 25, he sent a highlights video to Sydney Swans of the AFL of footage of his rugby career and basketball highlights as he was an outstanding basketball player and was scouted to a number of Canadian Universities before choosing to pursue rugby.

He went over for a tryout having never played a day of Aussie Rules in his life and was signed by Sydney.  He ended up playing a 110 games for them and winning a Grand Final

hqdefault.jpg

 

Rugby League isn't some sport requiring voodoo powers to play or specific skills that need to be developed at a young age (like skating in ice hockey for instance).  If you have excelled in other ball sports and are intelligent enough to understand tactics, you can easily pick up rugby.

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9 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Better money than the NRL? Serious question as I don’t know the kind of money CFL players make.

CFL salaries are comparable to NRL salaries, they are far better than salaries in Super League.  Also CFL players have a wicked Collective Bargaining Agreement, they play less games than Rugby League and have more perks.  

Cost of living in Canada is also far less than Australia.  

Edited by CanadianRugger

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23 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

There are tonnes of players over here who could transition, they don't for various reasons, mostly monetary.  How many people are going to drop everything they are doing, to take a crack at a sport they have never even played, with no guarantee they will achieve any sort of financial security?

Here is a great example of a crossover athlete though, who you may know from this video:

Mike Pyke was a Canadian Rugby Union International and Professional Player for Edinburgh and US Montauban in the Top 14.  At the ripe age of 25, he sent a highlights video to Sydney Swans of the AFL of footage of his rugby career and basketball highlights as he was an outstanding basketball player and was scouted to a number of Canadian Universities before choosing to pursue rugby.

He went over for a tryout having never played a day of Aussie Rules in his life and was signed by Sydney.  He ended up playing a 110 games for them and winning a Grand Final

hqdefault.jpg

 

Rugby League isn't some sport requiring voodoo powers to play or specific skills that need to be developed at a young age (like skating in ice hockey for instance).  If you have excelled in other ball sports and are intelligent enough to understand tactics, you can easily pick up rugby.

Never heard of him. I’m not saying league requires voodoo like powers but you make it seem like something anyone with basic ball skills can switch to. If it’s so easy to pick up why don’t more of these college rejects see it as a career option. Don’t they have agents who know what’s out there in the big wide world? Why aren’t TWP picking any of these players up? It’s because they aren’t worth the effort, money and time to train up once they’re past a certain age. Some of the top union players in the world have struggled when trying League. Ever heard of John Gallagher? A WC winning full back with the All Blacks. I’m sure anyone who can play full back for New Zealand would have the necessaries to play league. He bombed big style after signing for Leeds. He’s not the only example either.

Edited by deluded pom?

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1 minute ago, westside said:

Zaruba was a lot more successful at NFL than Jaryd Hayne was. Without much of a football background.

So? I’m not the one claiming league players can switch to any ball sport they like. I bet Zaruba played more Football than Hayne did before Hayne switched. Has Zaruba even played NFL as I can’t find any record of it if he did? Something Hayne actually did with absolutely no Football background.

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