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M j M

Dave Furner, new Leeds coach

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9 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

so on that basis Furner is not a good coach then?

 

Why have Leeds employed him?

 

Whichever coach we got next it has to be realised there is a hell of a lot of wok to be done to get the team fighting amongst the top again. Lots of dead wood is now floating about in this squad and players at the fag end of their careers hanging on that are not longer what they were, or liabilities because they are always on the treatment table.

I'm happy enough with Furner, whether he has been a success or not up to now is up for debate but he brings a wealth of experience in the elite competition, knows the club but is not over familiar and will be very keen and hungry to show his worth as head coach again. all the ingredients are there for him to do well, we will see.

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2 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

 

Whichever coach we got next it has to be realised there is a hell of a lot of wok to be done to get the team fighting amongst the top again. Lots of dead wood is now floating about in this squad and players at the fag end of their careers hanging on that are not longer what they were, or liabilities because they are always on the treatment table.

I'm happy enough with Furner, whether he has been a success or not up to now is up for debate but he brings a wealth of experience in the elite competition, knows the club but is not over familiar and will be very keen and hungry to show his worth as head coach again. all the ingredients are there for him to do well, we will see.

Thank you for the reply - it seems some people immediately go on the defensive when a simple quetion is asked

 

I appreciate your reply

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14 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

 

Whichever coach we got next it has to be realised there is a hell of a lot of wok to be done to get the team fighting amongst the top again. Lots of dead wood is now floating about in this squad and players at the fag end of their careers hanging on that are not longer what they were, or liabilities because they are always on the treatment table.

I'm happy enough with Furner, whether he has been a success or not up to now is up for debate but he brings a wealth of experience in the elite competition, knows the club but is not over familiar and will be very keen and hungry to show his worth as head coach again. all the ingredients are there for him to do well, we will see.

If it's a "hell of a lot of wok" you are looking for, can I recommend Ching He Huang, she's very good!

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14 minutes ago, Eleftherios said:

If it's a "hell of a lot of wok" you are looking for, can I recommend Ching He Huang, she's very good!

Ken Hom.   You want to go with someone with a proven track record.   He practically invented the wok...   well he used to sell them anyway.

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It’s interesting the way the coaching trend has reversed and we are now seeing clubs going back to looking overseas for their head coach.   Is this maybe something to do with the lack of natural playing talent over here?

At Warrington, Tony Smith used to stick to the mantra of letting the players work out their own attack and play what’s in front of them.   This was great when we had the likes of Briers, Monaghan and Hodgson and Sandow running the show.   Other teams had similar greats who could really read the game.   These days though we seem to lack those superstars and clubs seem to now be going down the highly structured Aussie style RL.   It’s not as fun to watch, but maybe it’s essential as we don’t have that natural off-the-cuff talent.

What’s even more interesting is that the Warrington CEO went down under in search of a new coach, and of all those interviewed only one impressed with his knowledge of the English game, and his analysis of the club’s playing issues.   Whether that’s because he was the only one genuinely interested in the Warrington job, or whether it’s because Aussie coaches don’t care a jot about English RL I don’t know.   I can’t be sure whether Furner was interviewed for the Warrington job, but I think he was.   I’d have to search the guardian website for news articles at the time.

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47 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

 

Whichever coach we got next it has to be realised there is a hell of a lot of wok to be done to get the team fighting amongst the top again. Lots of dead wood is now floating about in this squad and players at the fag end of their careers hanging on that are not longer what they were, or liabilities because they are always on the treatment table.

I'm happy enough with Furner, whether he has been a success or not up to now is up for debate but he brings a wealth of experience in the elite competition, knows the club but is not over familiar and will be very keen and hungry to show his worth as head coach again. all the ingredients are there for him to do well, we will see.

Agree 100% . Despite how dreadful we are right now, a turn around  could be pretty quick, if the right decisions are made. We'r lucky in that most of the dead wood and old, always injured players are off contract at the end of this season, and we'v got the best crop of juniors we'v had in 15 years waiting to progress. 

The most important decision was the coach, Powell would of been my ideal choice, think he's a brilliant coach, but id of been happy with any of Powell, Furner, Demitriu or Griffin...So good appointment  

Unless theres been extensions that havnt been announced, i make it that...JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Walters, Ormndroyd, Keinhorst, Mullally are all off contract, i wouldnt keep any of them, the first 3 have been good/great players for us but its time to bow out, the rest are average at best but mostly rubbish. We'v got Crosby and Thompson playing for contracts right now, id keep both at the right price, theyr much better options for squad places 20 and below than what we have right now, both are relativly young and neither take up overseas quota places. As much as we need starting quality players, we cant ignore the absolute rubbish we'v got further down the squad either, it needs improved .

With Moon and Hall already announced as leaving, Galloway never being replaced and the 7 above off contract, we would have plenty of cap space to sign 3 or 4 much needed first 13 quality players to add to Lolohea and McClelland, with room to filter some of the very good juniors into the bottom end of the squad, giving them a pathway and showing them theyr progressing, instead of blocking there progress and wasting cap money on the likes of Ormndroyd, Walters and Keinhorst.

Hope the club make the right decisions

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6 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Unless theres been extensions that havnt been announced, i make it that...JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Walters, Ormndroyd, Keinhorst, Mullally are all off contract, i wouldnt keep any of them

 

Agree with all you said, but you hit the nail on the head here and these in the main are the players i was alluding to (Keinhorst has already signed with Hull KR i believe though). It has been said everyone at the club is still in place, but I expect Furner once he has his feet under the table to cast aside a lot of the backroom team and bring in his own people, i certainly don't expect Lowes to be kept on.

Plenty of work to do, but with a new broom and fresh voices and ideas around the place i certainly expect some better rugby on display next season even if we may still be in a re building period. 

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I'd be very surprised if Lowes didn't stay. He has an excellent track record and is very highly thought of at Headingley. 

Of the players I'd keep JJB for his winning DNA as much as anything, he's an important person to still have in around. Of the rest we can't continue to keep Keinhorst as a general utility, great as he's been in the role he needs a first team spot. Mulally is good value for money but very much a McDermott project.

Abbo and Delaney are absolute club legends but the time to part has unfortunately come.

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53 minutes ago, M j M said:

I'd be very surprised if Lowes didn't stay. He has an excellent track record and is very highly thought of at Headingley. 

Really? i like Jimmy, but his record is shaky at best. failed in his short stint at Warrington, then was assistant to McDermott in 2011/12: of course we did win the grand final both seasons but was from 5th and we were dreadful for much of both  during the regular rounds. failed to get the bulls out of the championship 2014-2016 and did little during his union carnegie days.

 

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On 9/8/2018 at 10:05 PM, Kenilworth Tiger said:

I asked a simple question because I genuinely don’t see a great record.

 

youre still upset that I want Widnes to win tomorrow I see. 😂😂😂

Why would I be upset ? It's just the predictability I was alluding to.

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9 minutes ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

of course you were love 😅

I've yet to meet a Cas fan who doesn't want Leeds to lose, and that includes members of my own family. So getting upset doesn't come into it.

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40 minutes ago, SilentAssassin said:

Really? i like Jimmy, but his record is shaky at best. failed in his short stint at Warrington, then was assistant to McDermott in 2011/12: of course we did win the grand final both seasons but was from 5th and we were dreadful for much of both  during the regular rounds. failed to get the bulls out of the championship 2014-2016 and did little during his union carnegie days.

 

I wouldn't have him as head coach, he definitely hasn't got the temperament for it although his first stint with the lodgers was considered good. But an assistant is different entirely. As you point out he was there in 11/12 and has also been a pseudo assistant/consultant for the last year or so, helping turn around the mess of 16 and winning another grand final. 

Obviously Furner may want someone else or something else from his assistant after a while but Lowes's record in the role he's in is very good.

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I wouldnt have lowes anywhere near the club myself. Think his track record is pretty dismal and he's too familiar with the old regime and the old regimes ideas.

Apart from us getting slightly worse since he took over first team coach, which was pretty hard to do, considering how bad we were, we look practically the same side we had become under Mcdermott. No attacking set plays, no structure, stupid penaltys, awful at slowing the other teams PTB down, awful at speeding our PTB up, terrible last tackle options, like passing it 2 off the ruck to our center whos playing half back, so he can swing a pendulum leg at it and hope for the best, was moon now its suttcliffe. Myler should be doing 90% of our kicking as he's our only half, Suttcliffe done most lf it against hull kr, predictably it was rubbish.

Having said all that, Im sure Furner will have his own view, if he's happy with lowes then thats all that counts.

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4 hours ago, rhinos78 said:

Agree 100% . Despite how dreadful we are right now, a turn around  could be pretty quick, if the right decisions are made. We'r lucky in that most of the dead wood and old, always injured players are off contract at the end of this season, and we'v got the best crop of juniors we'v had in 15 years waiting to progress. 

The most important decision was the coach, Powell would of been my ideal choice, think he's a brilliant coach, but id of been happy with any of Powell, Furner, Demitriu or Griffin...So good appointment  

Unless theres been extensions that havnt been announced, i make it that...JJB, Ablett, Delaney, Walters, Ormndroyd, Keinhorst, Mullally are all off contract, i wouldnt keep any of them, the first 3 have been good/great players for us but its time to bow out, the rest are average at best but mostly rubbish. We'v got Crosby and Thompson playing for contracts right now, id keep both at the right price, theyr much better options for squad places 20 and below than what we have right now, both are relativly young and neither take up overseas quota places. As much as we need starting quality players, we cant ignore the absolute rubbish we'v got further down the squad either, it needs improved .

With Moon and Hall already announced as leaving, Galloway never being replaced and the 7 above off contract, we would have plenty of cap space to sign 3 or 4 much needed first 13 quality players to add to Lolohea and McClelland, with room to filter some of the very good juniors into the bottom end of the squad, giving them a pathway and showing them theyr progressing, instead of blocking there progress and wasting cap money on the likes of Ormndroyd, Walters and Keinhorst.

Hope the club make the right decisions

Sounds like Leeds have done well to make the cut in the middle 8s, 'cos  otherwise it sounds like they would have gone straight down to Division 1. !!!

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4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Sounds like Leeds have done well to make the cut in the middle 8s, 'cos  otherwise it sounds like they would have gone straight down to Division 1. !!!

Havnt got a clue what you mean

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17 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Havnt got a clue what you mean

I was only half serious and of course I was not being fair, but it sounds like they are looking for a 90% change in the team. Whether they are aiming for that or not, I do wonder where all these new players are going to come from.

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34 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I was only half serious and of course I was not being fair, but it sounds like they are looking for a 90% change in the team. Whether they are aiming for that or not, I do wonder where all these new players are going to come from.

Not atall. 7 contracts that are expiring, all players that not many Leeds fans would argue too strongly to keep, for some of them that would be putting it politley. 3 or 4 starting quality players to come in, the other 3 or 4 squad places filled by some of our best juniors. 

Nothing out of the ordinary, Warrington brought similar numbers this off-season after a poor season, then added Charnley aswel.

When a club of the stature of Leeds have only beaten 3 championship clubs and widnes since the end of April, these sort of changes should be expected. 

Edited by rhinos78

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Personally I don't think there needs to be there huge sweeping changes some are seeming necessary. 

Some players are looking worse than they are because of the form of the squad as a whole. They will look better in a side that has had a few quality additions/replacements in the right areas. Look how much better Salford look with Jackson Hastings. 

I think Leeds are in need of a couple of second rowers, a hooker if Parcell goes maybe a prop, and depending in what they want to do with Sutcliffe and Lolohea possibly a halfback at most.

In fact I would look to keep the numbers brought in as low as we can get away with. There are a fair few top quality youngsters needing game time next season and being first graders the year after. I don't want to see average players on 3 year deals blocking their path.

Oledzki, Cam Smith, Harry Newman, Mclelland, Alex Sutcliffe will all need game time next year, with more coming up behind them

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Personally I don't think there needs to be there huge sweeping changes some are seeming necessary. 

Some players are looking worse than they are because of the form of the squad as a whole. They will look better in a side that has had a few quality additions/replacements in the right areas. Look how much better Salford look with Jackson Hastings. 

I think Leeds are in need of a couple of second rowers, a hooker if Parcell goes maybe a prop, and depending in what they want to do with Sutcliffe and Lolohea possibly a halfback at most.

In fact I would look to keep the numbers brought in as low as we can get away with. There are a fair few top quality youngsters needing game time next season and being first graders the year after. I don't want to see average players on 3 year deals blocking their path.

Oledzki, Cam Smith, Harry Newman, Mclelland, Alex Sutcliffe will all need game time next year, with more coming up behind them

So 3 or 4

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1 minute ago, rhinos78 said:

So 3 or 4

2 or 3 ideally. Maybe 5 or 6 depending on circumstance.

But definitely only starters. I think our strength is the depth this next generation will provide. 3 absolute quality signings and I will be happy m

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

2 or 3 ideally. Maybe 5 or 6 depending on circumstance.

But definitely only starters. I think our strength is the depth this next generation will provide. 3 absolute quality signings and I will be happy m

This is what im getting at.  Let the past it and average at best players who are off contract leave, use all the cap space from them 7 and Hall and Moon on 3 or 4  more quality players and fill the numbers in the squad with our best juniors.

Oledzki, Smith, Walker, A Suttcliffe and Newman already have first team squad numbers, McClelland will likely take lilleys place in the squad, then at least 3 or 4 more should be getting squad numbers for next season. If we re-sign the off contract lads, there wont be room in the squad for the juniors or room on the cap for the type of signings we need to be looking at.

Ideally, i think we need at least one backrower, a prop and center or Winger, id probably go for a winger because Newman and Broadbent are 2 outstanding talents we'v got coming through at center. The halfs are fine with Myler and Lolohea starting and McClelland backing them up imo.

If we carry a squad of 30 again like this year and releasing only the off contract players (Ferres would be first out the door for me but he's got a year left) id like the squad to be: 

Fullback - Walker , Goulding

Wing - New Signing , T Briscoe , L Briscoe

Center - k Watkins , A Handley , L Suttcliffe , H Newman 

Halfbacks - R Myler , T Lolohea , C McClelland 

Props - New Signing , M Garbutt , B Singleton , N Peteru , D Crosby , M Oledzki , T Dupree

Hooker - M Parcell , B Dwyer , C Johnson 

Backrow - A Cuthbertson (Loose forward) , S Ward , New Signing , New Signing or J Thompson , C Smith , B Ferres , A Suttcliffe , O Trout

We should have plenty of cap to fit 3 really top quality starters in, If we can fit another quality backrower under the cap, ideal, if not, keep Thompson.  

Year after next we should be looking at getting Tom Holroyd, Brad Martin, Louis McConnell and Jack Broadbent into the first team squad picture.

Edited by rhinos78

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4 hours ago, rhinos78 said:

This is what im getting at.  Let the past it and average at best players who are off contract leave, use all the cap space from them 7 and Hall and Moon on 3 or 4  more quality players and fill the numbers in the squad with our best juniors.

Oledzki, Smith, Walker, A Suttcliffe and Newman already have first team squad numbers, McClelland will likely take lilleys place in the squad, then at least 3 or 4 more should be getting squad numbers for next season. If we re-sign the off contract lads, there wont be room in the squad for the juniors or room on the cap for the type of signings we need to be looking at.

Ideally, i think we need at least one backrower, a prop and center or Winger, id probably go for a winger because Newman and Broadbent are 2 outstanding talents we'v got coming through at center. The halfs are fine with Myler and Lolohea starting and McClelland backing them up imo.

If we carry a squad of 30 again like this year and releasing only the off contract players (Ferres would be first out the door for me but he's got a year left) id like the squad to be: 

Fullback - Walker , Goulding

Wing - New Signing , T Briscoe , L Briscoe

Center - k Watkins , A Handley , L Suttcliffe , H Newman 

Halfbacks - R Myler , T Lolohea , C McClelland 

Props - New Signing , M Garbutt , B Singleton , N Peteru , D Crosby , M Oledzki , T Dupree

Hooker - M Parcell , B Dwyer , C Johnson 

Backrow - A Cuthbertson (Loose forward) , S Ward , New Signing , New Signing or J Thompson , C Smith , B Ferres , A Suttcliffe , O Trout

We should have plenty of cap to fit 3 really top quality starters in, If we can fit another quality backrower under the cap, ideal, if not, keep Thompson.  

Year after next we should be looking at getting Tom Holroyd, Brad Martin, Louis McConnell and Jack Broadbent into the first team squad picture.

We should be looking at keeping JJB only from the out of contract list. He was very good in the first half of the season and has important experience around a young side. I’d have liked to have kept Keinhorst but sadly he’s off. I wish we hadn’t got Ferres and L Sutcliffe on contract still. 

I wouldn’t be looking at signing Crosby or Thompson for next season. Both are average, lower SL or Championship players. Crosby has disappointed me actually as I had thought he’d be decent.

 I think Holroyd will get a bit more game time next year but we definitely need 4 signings in my opinion, 5 if Parcell leaves 

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