roughyed34

Crowds this season.

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Pinched this off the York site.......

League 1 only (so far) last seasons avg in brackets.

Bradford 3633 (3913) -7%

York 1477 (1088) +36%

Newcastle 1058 (910) +16%

Doncaster 838 (562) +49%

Keighley 815 (808) +1%

Workington 802 (654) +23%

Whitehaven 751 (674) +11%

Hunslet 620 (413) +50%

Oldham 460 (792) -42%

Coventry 416 (366) +14%

North Wales 380 (342) +11%

London 359 (443) -19% W

WestWales 285 (229 as S.Wales) +24%

Hemel 177 (118) +50%  

Nearly a 50% drop for us playing IN Oldham and the biggest drop in attendance in the whole league.

If these figures are correct this proves the fact that playing in Oldham has actually decreased crowds by a huge margin!

Unless something changes dramatically in the close season and Oldham actually do something like proper marketing,ticket deals etc the club is dead and buried. 

We exist on central funding and if that's cut we will struggle even more, is this the right time and the golden opportunity to make the club a supporters owned club ( if indeed there is enough interest in RL at this level)?

Obviously IF Hamilton quits then an interim chairperson could do next season on central funding while a money is raised by a subscription scheme for a fan take over in 2020? Then the club could reconnect with fans and become OUR club, with all members getting a vote etc and still have central funding with more money in the pot from the Supporters trust to make the club solvent for a change.At the minute even the die hard fans are pig sick of the running of the club,the Bradford debacle proves the hierarchy don't give two hoots about the loyal 400 who have been there this season.

I don't blame the stayaways for the poor crowds at Oldham,after all they didn't go to Stalybridge either. 

The club have done nothing to increase crowds or engage with fans,poor Dave must feel like he fights a lonely battle manning the social media and various other things (which is the only shining light in the administration of the club and DN deserves massive credit for all his efforts) with not much to work with from the Club. 

After this season ends unless huge changes are made I sadly can see the end of pro RL in Oldham, I never thought it would happen again, and always try to see positives but the way we are going,the reality is we are pretty close to the life support machine being turned off.

Tragic.

 

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Good post 34, couldn't agree more with your sentiments.

I'm one of the missing -42% I came to a couple of games at the start of the season as you know. However even though Whitebank has been given a facelift the facilities were lacking for someone with my health problems, hence I couldn't continue coming to Whitebank, which I think would also affect some of our older supporters.

Certainly agree that maybe the end is nigh for the pro game in Oldham. As you say perhaps it is time to mobilise fans and be a little proactive in trying to save the club from what I've seen over the last few years from the 'death of a thousand cuts'.

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Good analysis  , people are voting with their feet and staying away, they've had enough of the way the club is run, the owners got no money, so the team is stuck in this division and his approach disengages the fans.

Roughyed34 is spot on it's time it became a supporter run club, the Trust is in place to do this.

Unfortunately  I can't see this happening,   he'll do everything he can to keep hold of it and I expect he's trying to find new partners now.

Let's hope he fails and we can start again !

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2 hours ago, roughyed34 said:

Unless something changes dramatically in the close season and Oldham actually do something like proper marketing,ticket deals etc the club is dead and buried. 

 

After this season ends unless huge changes are made I sadly can see the end of pro RL in Oldham, I never thought it would happen again, and always try to see positives but the way we are going,the reality is we are pretty close to the life support machine being turned off.

The old support is dying off and there's no replacements being targeted. The end is inevitable and seemingly inescapable.

 

 

52 minutes ago, thinboyfat said:

However even though Whitebank has been given a facelift the facilities were lacking for someone with my health problems, hence I couldn't continue coming to Whitebank, which I think would also affect some of our older supporters.

Certainly agree that maybe the end is nigh for the pro game in Oldham.

Unless young people are brought into the marketing equation,all hope is lost.

Expecting older guys with restricted finances and fading health to turn up now and in the future is crazy. That demographic will continue to reduce in number until the grim reality finally hits home that the active supporter base is too insignificant to maintain a professional club.

The writing is on the wall but those who can act are wilfully negligent in doing something about it.

Without the younger generations taking part then it's only a matter of time before the curtain has to come down.

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Very interesting post r34, we've had several discussions on this and the figures speak for themselves. There doesn't seem to be any appetite left for the team in this town. 

The game itself is in dire straits and even if the so called stay aways came back I doubt they'd be in numbers approaching 1000.

I agree that the ground is probably partially to blame, facilities are just alright viewing is terrible though. People with disabilities, poor health would find access difficult. 

I hope I'm wrong and we can rise again a la York but if we don't we're gonners I'm afraid 😨 

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The result of being on the road for many years. The support was quite remarkable for this period but the next generation were not able to attend and engage with the "Home" matches. This probably created a problem for the areas amateur clubs as well hence our poor showings at this level today We are now paying a price for this policy.   

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Not just the result of being "on the road" imho although that contributed to the lack of stability and a home base, brought on though by the chairman allegedly not paying his dues at Boundary Park where we could have had a decent future,the nomadic years could potentially have been avoided,the crowds at Bower and all the other grounds over the years were reasonable and comparable to most other lower end clubs. This season we have lost 300+ fans,granted there were more away fans in the Championship but a fair % of Oldham fans seem to have turned it in on our heralded return to Oldham.

Even when we were nomadic the club never encouraged the younger generation, no real junior supporters club, no tickets for schools etc and to this day that continues, 24 kids went through the turnstiles at the cup game v HKR this season. That's terrible.

As Pigeon Lofter said earlier Oldham's fanbase is an ageing one,average age must be over 50,it can't continue like this if the club is to grow.

The marketing of games and the club has been horrendous for many a year, the club is stuck in the dark ages and does not move forward. How many clubs for instance do not have card payments as an option but you can pay by cheque?

The truth is that we have a club which is stagnant and way behind the times at every level (except social media).

We have fallen to an all time low, both in attendances and club "management" in every area.

York have shown the way in rising from the ashes, not long ago almost extinct, no money,crowds relatively poor. Now buzzing,marketing games so well,offers for fans,season ticket offers,new ground on the horizon,hugely improved crowds.

Meanwhile Oldham plod on in the same vein ,year in year out with no noticeable improvement in the running of the club.

Unless something seismic happens soon, the club and pro game in Oldham is finished.

 

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Attendances falling,the club's inability to engage with the fans and the youth of the town. Coupled with the age of the fan's attending regularly rising,the club is heading only in one direction unless something on a sciesmic scale happens. The stats provided by 34 off the York website is damning evidence the years of isolation that the chairman seems to have adopted may come back and bite us all in the butt. I really do think that the professional game in Oldham will fizzle out if something's not done,pronto.

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Excellent r34. Back in Oldham crowds drop, and this is with a marketing manager. Not very good. 

The interest in rugby league as a whole is dropping. 

Factors as I see it, championship 1 is seen as little better than national conference. The perception of whitebank hinders that despite the excellent improvements of the football team. 

Also what sport would change the structure of the league 2 weeks approx before it ends, I see this as a ploy of the super league clubs to kill championship one teams. 

Also what happens if sky say we like the format of the league and we don't want to see a change. As the piper I doubt if the super league are that daft to stick two fingers up. 

 

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Seeing our average attendance just 44 people greater than Coventry is just awful.  Oldham is a founder member of the RFL and all we can muster is an amount of people fewer than a city centre McDonalds on a Saturday afternoon.

We need to change.  Quickly.

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im sure i am reading the wrong forum here ..........Ive been slagged off for saying ALL the above .......

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10 minutes ago, Roughyedz said:

im sure i am reading the wrong forum here ..........Ive been slagged off for saying ALL the above .......

This forum is for Oldham fans, so you're right.

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9 hours ago, clifford said:

Excellent r34. Back in Oldham crowds drop, and this is with a marketing manager. Not very good. 

The interest in rugby league as a whole is dropping. 

Factors as I see it, championship 1 is seen as little better than national conference. The perception of whitebank hinders that despite the excellent improvements of the football team. 

Also what sport would change the structure of the league 2 weeks approx before it ends, I see this as a ploy of the super league clubs to kill championship one teams. 

Also what happens if sky say we like the format of the league and we don't want to see a change. As the piper I doubt if the super league are that daft to stick two fingers up. 

 

Spot on mate,your right about the timing of the structure change,it stinks. I too think the town has fallen out of love with the game. And yes I watched saddleworth yesterday and it was a cracking game played in a great spirit. So yes you could argue league 1 isn't much more than the amateur game. I really don't know where we go after this season,the crowd's are the poorest I can remember and promotion prospect's are looking a little distant. The isolationism of the past maybe catching up with the club. Sad and worrying.

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I took those crowd stats from the League Express so some may not be 100% accurate but they shouldn't be far off.

Never good too see any club struggling on the attendance front. When I started watching York in 2016 they were getting 450-600 a game so things can turn around.

For me the biggest issue is not doing enough to get juniors on board. 25 years ago my mum said I wasn't sitting around at home all summer and signed me up to Lee Crooks summer training camp. That was my first introduction to the game and I soon realised he was quite a name at Castleford. As part of the course we were given free match tickets and I've been hooked ever since. Kids love that kind of stuff - meeting players even if they don't really know who they are, they like going out on the pitch as mascots etc, being given free things. I've said on the general forum I'd love to see one round every season be assigned as a community round, where local clubs get cheap or free entrance at their pro/semi pro counterparts. Relax the rules on the players lounge/bar to allow kids and their families in, get the players to put their phones away and make them speak to the kids. Because the next generation of fans (and players) might be hooked.

Another thing which has worked wonders here at York is allowing all under 16s in for free. I'd estimate about 1 in 6 attendance this season and last are juniors, on an average of 1400 that's 200+ which has to be good for the game. I wish it was mandatory across the Championship and League 1 to allow U16s in for free.

One of the few things I'd change here at York is to introduce a young persons price for 16-20 year olds because I think we do lose some to the game when they go from getting in free to having to pay £15 a match or £169 for the season. 

Lastly I play a lot of gigs on the working men's club circuit across the North of England and it's the same situation there. Everyone is 60-70, hardly any young uns, within 20 years I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of WMCs in each county. With a few exceptions (some good clubs up in the North East) they make it difficult and unwelcoming for young people - you have to have someone vouch for you and sign you in, half of the clubs in Yorkshire haven't even seen a lick of paint since the 60s (who wants to sit in a manky old club when there's a fancy Yates wine bar up the road) and if you sit in old Jimmy's seat who's been coming here for a pint of mild since 1927 there's uproar. Oh and don't even think of breathing during the bingo, unless you want WW3!

Its not too late but RL clubs really need to act now and help bring through the next generation of followers of this great game.

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17 minutes ago, AB Knight said:

I took those crowd stats from the League Express so some may not be 100% accurate but they shouldn't be far off.

Never good too see any club struggling on the attendance front. When I started watching York in 2016 they were getting 450-600 a game so things can turn around.

For me the biggest issue is not doing enough to get juniors on board. 25 years ago my mum said I wasn't sitting around at home all summer and signed me up to Lee Crooks summer training camp. That was my first introduction to the game and I soon realised he was quite a name at Castleford. As part of the course we were given free match tickets and I've been hooked ever since. Kids love that kind of stuff - meeting players even if they don't really know who they are, they like going out on the pitch as mascots etc, being given free things. I've said on the general forum I'd love to see one round every season be assigned as a community round, where local clubs get cheap or free entrance at their pro/semi pro counterparts. Relax the rules on the players lounge/bar to allow kids and their families in, get the players to put their phones away and make them speak to the kids. Because the next generation of fans (and players) might be hooked.

Another thing which has worked wonders here at York is allowing all under 16s in for free. I'd estimate about 1 in 6 attendance this season and last are juniors, on an average of 1400 that's 200+ which has to be good for the game. I wish it was mandatory across the Championship and League 1 to allow U16s in for free.

One of the few things I'd change here at York is to introduce a young persons price for 16-20 year olds because I think we do lose some to the game when they go from getting in free to having to pay £15 a match or £169 for the season. 

Lastly I play a lot of gigs on the working men's club circuit across the North of England and it's the same situation there. Everyone is 60-70, hardly any young uns, within 20 years I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of WMCs in each county. With a few exceptions (some good clubs up in the North East) they make it difficult and unwelcoming for young people - you have to have someone vouch for you and sign you in, half of the clubs in Yorkshire haven't even seen a lick of paint since the 60s (who wants to sit in a manky old club when there's a fancy Yates wine bar up the road) and if you sit in old Jimmy's seat who's been coming here for a pint of mild since 1927 there's uproar. Oh and don't even think of breathing during the bingo, unless you want WW3!

Its not too late but RL clubs really need to act now and help bring through the next generation of followers of this great game.

Agreed, unfortunately our club hasn't been the most proficient at engagement with the youth or anyone else for that matter. I personally think it's too late,the writings on the wall. I'm pleased that you're having success at York after having a wally for an owner. But the game in general needs to pull it's socks up or it'll be curtain's for rugby league. Your crowds are increasing which is great but I don't think that can be said across the game,half empty stadia everywhere.

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12 hours ago, Dave Naylor said:

This forum is for Oldham fans, so you're right.

You just cant resist can ya Dave , you conctantly try to drive people AWAY, r u sure ur not Chris Hamilton using a non de plume, I never saw you on here when this forum first started ( 10 years was it ) , ??? will you still be around when it finishes i wonder  ?

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1 hour ago, Roughyedz said:

You just cant resist can ya Dave , you conctantly try to drive people AWAY, r u sure ur not Chris Hamilton using a non de plume, I never saw you on here when this forum first started ( 10 years was it ) , ??? will you still be around when it finishes i wonder  ?

Multiple spelling mistakes and grammar issues here.

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Everyone seems to enjoy throwing around the idea of becoming a supporters owned  club , but do is there enough fans to be able to afford to buy it? I doubt it the club must be worth a couple of hundred thousand.

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7 hours ago, Connor mcb said:

Everyone seems to enjoy throwing around the idea of becoming a supporters owned  club , but do is there enough fans to be able to afford to buy it? I doubt it the club must be worth a couple of hundred thousand.

That's a good question mate,who would be willing to put their hard earned money where the mouth is. And yes are there enough of them left.

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9 hours ago, Connor mcb said:

Everyone seems to enjoy throwing around the idea of becoming a supporters owned  club , but do is there enough fans to be able to afford to buy it? I doubt it the club must be worth a couple of hundred thousand.

There are thousands waiting to come back... well thats what we keep getting told...

Not sure if its the same thousand who won't watch if we play at Boundary Park, will only watch if we play at Boundary Park, won't watch until we play in hoops, won't watch if we play outside Oldham, won't watch if we play inside Oldham (whitebank), won't watch until ewe play in blue shorts.... I lose track of the reasons...

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1 hour ago, moorside roughyed said:

That's a good question mate,who would be willing to put their hard earned money where the mouth is. And yes are there enough of them left.

Of course there is. I think HOTTB put a good post on here a year or two ago about how fan ownership could work.

Also it wouldn't just be the financial side that would benefit the club but fans/owners would be more willing (or be allowed) to get involved and use their own individual key skills, like Dave with his social media. When we had the lease on Whitebank it didn't even see a lick of paint, if we were fan owned then we could have done what AVRO have recently done.

I fear the real problem is trying to buy the club off CH and convince him to give up his yearly salary off the RFL. Not to mention lowering  the price he puts on the club (didn't someone say he wanted £400k)? Sadly I can see him taking the club to the grave rather than sell it for less than he thinks it is worth.

Oldham RLFC Mk 3 anyone?

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22 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

Multiple spelling mistakes and grammar issues here.

Oh dear , no wonder gates have fallen if you cant attend an Oldham match if ur illiterate ( that bars most people in Oldham now a days ) :yes::(

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4 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

That's a good question mate,who would be willing to put their hard earned money where the mouth is. And yes are there enough of them left.

I was one of a few thousand that bought shares when the old club was floated , all the lot went down the tubes about 4 weeks later. . . .

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13 hours ago, Connor mcb said:

Everyone seems to enjoy throwing around the idea of becoming a supporters owned  club , but do is there enough fans to be able to afford to buy it? I doubt it the club must be worth a couple of hundred thousand.

The club realistically is worth nothing,nada,zilch.

No assets,no ground of our own.

The majority of debt is owed by the "club" to Mr H for directors loans.

If Mr H decides to quit at some point then he could take the club down totally and Oldham mark 3 would then have to rise from the ashes (again).

If Mr H quits he could attempt to sell the club to recoup the monies owed to himself. (Can't imagine anyone would buy it in the state it is in)

If Mr H decides to write off the debt owed to him and hand the club "debt" free to a supporters trust then nobody has to stump up big money at the start.

All it would mean in that case is a change of ownership to a Supporters Trust and we would start pretty much at a zero balance in the club.

We would still receive central funding,which like I say is what we exist on now. The "club" pot would be raised by subscribing to a members scheme in some form to make the club solvent and in the black for operating costs extra to central funding.

Say for example 400 people pay £100 a year that equates to £40000 a year extra in the club.

Details of levels of subscription/benefits are something for later down the line if this kind of thing ever happens,but even at our current crowd level and everyone bought into the idea then I'm sure you would agree an extra £40000 is not to be sniffed at and would open up massive improvement to the club as a whole.

The first season say for sake of argument 2019, would be funded by central funding while the subscription scheme builds funds over that year for the next season.

In 2020 there would be Central funding and the extra pot from the "club".

Your point around supporters is valid, IS there enough interest around the town to make it viable to have a supporters led club? That's the million dollar question.

Edited by roughyed34

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