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East Coast Tiger

“Not good enough for Super League”

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

Realistically, Toronto need 10 new good players. Widnes could provide perhaps 3. Australia has a higher salary cap so that would provide an obstacle to buying top notch Aussies.

Toronto have got where they on the back of signing old heads. Those blokes en bloc won't cut it in Superleague so bite the bullet and scour the Universities for American Football jocks that have failed to make the NFL in this year's Draft.

Was that not the original idea Wooly? Did Mr Perez not suggest that as part of his strategic bigger plan? What about all the auditions the Wolfpack had to source and identify those best suited to make the transition to Rugby League, I seem to remember we had links to videos showcasing the trials that took place and after the initial surge of publicity it all went very quiet.

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On 9/9/2018 at 8:29 AM, Man of Kent said:

I’m not anti-Toronto. I am merely pointing out that they aren’t as good as some thought or hoped.

I include myself in that, as I thought they would beat Hull KR at home.

The present squad - if promoted - is at best bottom two SL standard. They will need to strengthen considerably, particularly in the forwards.

No sh!t, Sherlock.

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17 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I've no doubt that Toronto can put together a decent SL squad. I think Luetele will go really well next year, 

Hooker, a couple of improvements at prop and second row, maybe an upgrade of McCrone or Wallace and they are s solid mid table side. 

Where they will struggle to kick on is depth. The lack of cheap youngsters you can bring in when injuries bite will really test them in a long hard SL season.

Yes. Same with Toulouse and London. Or Halifax.

This accusation by the usual suspects is pathetic. 

Bearing in mind the appaling injury lists from a number clubs this season, there are few teams that have strength in depth. 

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Was that not the original idea Wooly? Did Mr Perez not suggest that as part of his strategic bigger plan? What about all the auditions the Wolfpack had to source and identify those best suited to make the transition to Rugby League, I seem to remember we had links to videos showcasing the trials that took place and after the initial surge of publicity it all went very quiet.

RL is far more aerobic than we often think. 80mins ball in play for 60..Luke Gale is on a rowing machine for his come back. Nfl players are all about explosive power. There's no great need for endurance. 

Then there's tactics. Physical gifts will not alone make a Elite player. If they did surely Dwain Chambers with his superhuman speed would have done well as a wing rather than being a triallist who didn't end up getting a pro deal. 

 

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8 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

RL is far more aerobic than we often think. 80mins ball in play for 60..Luke Gale is on a rowing machine for his come back. Nfl players are all about explosive power. There's no great need for endurance. 

Then there's tactics. Physical gifts will not alone make a Elite player. If they did surely Dwain Chambers with his superhuman speed would have done well as a wing rather than being a triallist who didn't end up getting a pro deal. 

 

 

There is a need for endurance in the NFL.

Especially if you're a Cleveland Browns fan.😉😉

Running backs and wide receivers have proven and instinctive ball handling skills. Probably Dwain Chambers didn't. Berwyn Jones did and Ken Jones did; both became international sprinters and top rugby players.

Lynn Davies was on Cardiff City's books as a junior.

Edited by Wolford6
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Listen, all kinds of people on here are saying Toronto is a lower level SL team right now (they seem to agree bottom two).  If that is the caset hen they are good enough for SL now.  It is like saying a body with an arm is not a body with an arm.  The arm is a functioning part of the body....therefore it is part of the body.

If they are good enough for  the bottom spot in SL then they are, be definition,  good enough for SL.

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On 9/9/2018 at 10:31 AM, East Coast Tiger said:

I have read this so many times, mostly in relation to TWP, in recent weeks. 

If Widnes lose tomorrow it’s pretty much guaranteed one of Toronto, Toulouse or London will be in SL next year. So if Toronto isn’t good enough after winning the championship easily I can only assume the other two aren’t either.

The new structure will have to include an 11 team SL.

So it raise's the question how poor are Widnes? and they won games in Super League this season.

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1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

So it raise's the question how poor are Widnes? and they won games in Super League this season.

Widnes are currently good enough for SL since they are currently in SL and an official part of SL...simple logic dictates that they must therefore indeed be good enough for SL.  It appears Toronto will CERTAINLY beat Widnes in the Qualifiers ON POINTS which would therefore mean that Toronto ARE MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH FOR SL.

Edited by Kayakman
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Just now, The Future is League said:

So it raise's the question how poor are Widnes? and they won games in Super League this season.

only 3

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I remember Dave Woods basically scoffing and in disbelief at the end of an interview with Perez not too long ago, made my blood boil the way he was ridiculing him/TWP and the way he was going about matters.

Where are you now Woods to say you're sorry for being an ###### and wrong? Oh yeah, still haven't forgotten your demeaning words on national TV over Tommy Harris either😬

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15 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

I remember Dave Woods basically scoffing and in disbelief at the end of an interview with Perez not too long ago, made my blood boil the way he was ridiculing him/TWP and the way he was going about matters.

Where are you now Woods to say you're sorry for being an ###### and wrong? Oh yeah, still haven't forgotten your demeaning words on national TV over Tommy Harris either😬

In less than two years Toronto has won two different divisional titles and is now currently in the mix for promotion to SL ....in less than two years...thats really something!  If they make SL this year, in Year 2 of a Five Year Plan, well...like what could anybody want or expect?  The team has shot above all expectations so far in every regard, including home crowd support.  Why are all these people against us?

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9 hours ago, Kayakman said:

In less than two years Toronto has won two different divisional titles and is now currently in the mix for promotion to SL ....in less than two years...thats really something!  If they make SL this year, in Year 2 of a Five Year Plan, well...like what could anybody want or expect?  The team has shot above all expectations so far in every regard, including home crowd support.  Why are all these people against us?

Hi K'man, Firstly to answer your last sentance rest assured I am not against TWP, I am also not in the backslapping, flag waving, drum beating following that your team has adopted over here, TWP is Che Sara Sara for me, whatever will be.

As for the rest of your comment, my analogy:- (True)

I was used to partake in a card school (poker) in a local pub, one night a stranger, actually someone we knew by sight as he frequented the pub but did not know or have any knowledge of him, asked could he join in which he was allowed to, and he subsequently "cleaned up" the reason being was that he was far richer than than anyone else, and no one could afford to back their hands against him, he would just keep raising the stakes.

By comparrison and this is not a critisicm, Paul Rowley is that card player, his collateral (Mr Argyle) and the stash he put on the table made it comparatively easy for him to win two divisional titles, I would not describe it as "thats really something" I would say it was inevitable. Simply put I would not have expected your team to acheive anything less than they have done, I consider that if the playing roster had been failing at any point, it would have been improved to get the right result.

Leigh were the same for a three year period, the owner bankrolled the team to be better than anyone else, in my opinion it really is the clubs with the most clout who will come out on top in the divisional leagues, especially the championship, simply they can afford the better player's.

As a footnote, if Paul Rowley had still been at Leigh I doubt they would be in the predicament they are in now, if nothing else his strength of character would have got more out of those player's than the inadequate coaches that were employed.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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23 hours ago, Southerner80 said:

RL is far more aerobic than we often think. 80mins ball in play for 60..Luke Gale is on a rowing machine for his come back. Nfl players are all about explosive power. There's no great need for endurance. 

Then there's tactics. Physical gifts will not alone make a Elite player. If they did surely Dwain Chambers with his superhuman speed would have done well as a wing rather than being a triallist who didn't end up getting a pro deal. 

 

True but it's easy to take a 1m95 130kg guy, make him lose 15kgs working on stamina and play him 20mins a game as an impact player.

 

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15 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

 

There is a need for endurance in the NFL.

Especially if you're a Cleveland Browns fan.😉😉

Running backs and wide receivers have proven and instinctive ball handling skills. Probably Dwain Chambers didn't. Berwyn Jones did and Ken Jones did; both became international sprinters and top rugby players.

Lynn Davies was on Cardiff City's books as a junior.

That's true, and serves you right ;)

(I can't talk, I'm a Dolphins fan 😢)

I noticed the difference going from playing soccer/rugby/hockey to playing Gridiron...it's easier going from endurance to explosive sport than the other way round, training regimes are pretty different but if you have the endurance sorted anyway, you can then REALLY concentrate on the explosive...after 2-3 years of only playing/training for Gridiron going back the other way would have been very difficult unless you did a fair bit extra on the endurance individually..

Edited by FearNothing

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39 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:

True but it's easy to take a 1m95 130kg guy, make him lose 15kgs working on stamina and play him 20mins a game as an impact player.

 

Agree for a prop or two. Difficult for the rest of positions. The corner backs probably could do a job on the wing? 

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On 9/11/2018 at 12:03 PM, Southerner80 said:

Agree for a prop or two. Difficult for the rest of positions. The corner backs probably could do a job on the wing? 

Probably, along with wide receivers. However if it was a choice I'd go with the Cornerback - they are used to defending and can go forwards (interception scenario), better than a WR more used to going forwards but no defence. Personally I'd be looking at Linebackers for conversion to a RL pack - big, strong and athletic, and more likely to be able to handle the aerobic conversion. 

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13 hours ago, FearNothing said:

Probably, along with wide receivers. However if it was a choice I'd go with the Cornerback - they are used to defending and can go forwards (interception scenario), better than a WR more used to going forwards but no defence. Personally I'd be looking at Linebackers for conversion to a RL pack - big, strong and athletic, and more likely to be able to handle the aerobic conversion. 

Agree. I notice the corner backs are generally the fastest and have great feet and can catch..Linebackers are great athletes too.... . Defence is huge in the NFL. You can win games with a big fast clever defence who give up 14pts a game or less even if your QB is average... 

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3 minutes ago, Southerner80 said:

Agree. I notice the corner backs are generally the fastest and have great feet and can catch..Linebackers are great athletes too.... . Defence is huge in the NFL. You can win games with a big fast clever defence who give up 14pts a game or less even if your QB is average... 

Agreed. To be more specific, I'd look at using inside LB for props, and outside LB for the rest of the forwards except hooker. All the above would be the easier conversions.... Centres should be next, mainly from running backs. Hookers, halves and FB would be the most problematic, however some specialist kick returners could be useful at FB..

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36 minutes ago, FearNothing said:

Agreed. To be more specific, I'd look at using inside LB for props, and outside LB for the rest of the forwards except hooker. All the above would be the easier conversions.... Centres should be next, mainly from running backs. Hookers, halves and FB would be the most problematic, however some specialist kick returners could be useful at FB..

The obvious guys to target for me would be guys from college football who were either a) spread/option QBs or b) special teams aces.

The first group are rarely given a chance in the NFL unless they look like they might genuinely develop into a pocket passer, but they usually have the all-round athletic ability and ball handling skills that would translate  well to RL. The second group again don't often make an NFL roster unless they have the requisite specialist ability to contribute on offense or defense.

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3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

The obvious guys to target for me would be guys from college football who were either a) spread/option QBs or b) special teams aces.

The first group are rarely given a chance in the NFL unless they look like they might genuinely develop into a pocket passer, but they usually have the all-round athletic ability and ball handling skills that would translate  well to RL. The second group again don't often make an NFL roster unless they have the requisite specialist ability to contribute on offense or defense.

..however we may be inundated with forward pass penalties 😁

seriously, some of those guys could transition well, but would need to be the more athletic/more robust QBs...let's face it, probably the most fragile position (except kickers) on the roster... 

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3 minutes ago, FearNothing said:

..however we may be inundated with forward pass penalties 😁

seriously, some of those guys could transition well, but would need to be the more athletic/more robust QBs...let's face it, probably the most fragile position (except kickers) on the roster... 

Every time I saw Tebow I thought if he'd been born in England he'd be packing down in Tests alongside Sam Burgess and James Graham.

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On 9/11/2018 at 11:52 AM, FearNothing said:

That's true, and serves you right ;)

(I can't talk, I'm a Dolphins fan 😢)

I do like the Browns, but they are not my team.

I'm a Chiefs fan and letting Alex Smith go when the team is on fire is an affront to common sense.

Booooo!

It's almost as repetitively disappointing as being a Bulls season ticket holder.

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