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Serena Williams

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8 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I think we would need examples from across men's and women's tennis with a clear difference either way. 

Even if he did go way further than he had before, one incident isn't proof of sexism or racism.

Bad refereeing performances happen all the time in all sports. 

As you know I'm really supportive of women's rights and equality, but as soon as I saw this I said to my wife this is an example of why people need to be really careful with the sexism card. This is the kind of thing that polarises views and will lead people to start questioning claims of sexism. Her selfish, spoilt behaviour actually does more harm to these campaigns IMO.

There were too many quotes saying 'if this was a men's game it wouldn't have happened, it just wouldn't' - that isn't good enough. 

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9 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I think we would need examples from across men's and women's tennis with a clear difference either way. 

Even if he did go way further than he had before, one incident isn't proof of sexism or racism.

Bad refereeing performances happen all the time in all sports. 

I've yet to see evidence that this was bad refereeing (technically umpiring as there is a separate referee). I do wonder if there'd been locker room talk amongst the officials about her coach and that the umpire was watching for it if she started losing.  

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Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

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22 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

Irrespective of the umpires decision I thought her behaviour was totally unacceptable. She was like a petulant child. If she was my daughter I'd be deeply embarrassed and she'd be getting the hard word from me. It's starting to look like Tennis is another sport that is being ruined by big money.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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22 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

This still isn't close to be proof of sexism, yet if you look at the media it is almost exclusively painting Serena as some martyr fighting for justice. 

I've seen many erratic refereeing displays and none of them were down to sexism because they were in a male sport with male referees.

 

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18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Irrespective of the umpires decision I thought her behaviour was totally unacceptable. She was like a petulant child. If she was my daughter I'd be deeply embarrassed and she'd be getting the hard word from me. It's starting to look like Tennis is another sport that is being ruined by big money.

Were she my daughter, I would have suspicions about the wife. 

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1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

A couple of these were the examples I heard, but I found some of their words hollow. These things were relatively common - I'm sure there are many examples of men not being punished the same for coaching, smashing a racquet and for calling the umpire a liar and a thief. 

If they present some evidence then I think this debate can go past her being a sore loser.

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Here is an example of the issue with some of the furore:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45468290

To break down the article - 

"The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women," Simon said in a statement.

"We do not believe that this was done last night."

Well you need to provide some evidence, rather than just saying it was different. It should be very easy to do so.

The head of the United States Tennis Association, which organises the US Open, said men "are badgering the umpire on the changeovers and nothing happens".

"We watch the guys do this all the time," USTA chief Katrina Adams said.

"There's no equality when it comes to what the men are doing to the chair umpires and what the women are doing, and I think there has to be some consistency across the board.

"I'm all about gender equality and I think when you look at that situation these are conversations that will be imposed in the next weeks. We have to treat each other fairly and the same."

Well, quite. And again, I am very interested in examples of where a man has called an umpire a liar and a thief. Because tbh, in many other sports, the player would be sent off and banned. Including men.

Those views were shared by BBC tennis presenter Sue Barker, who said: "I've sat courtside watching the men ranting at umpires and they haven't been given a violation."

Williams herself has ranted at umpires without this level of punishment, however this was a triple whammy, and the 'liar' and 'thief' comments cannot be ignored. If men have done this and got away with a triple whammy, then fair enough, present that.

None of the comments offer anything more than, she was punished, and that is not fair. To ignore the comments of a player calling the umpire a 'liar' and a 'thief' is irresponsible and pretty disgusting tbh. There would be uproar if men did this in most other sports.

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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Here is an example of the issue with some of the furore:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45468290

To break down the article - 

"The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women," Simon said in a statement.

"We do not believe that this was done last night."

Well you need to provide some evidence, rather than just saying it was different. It should be very easy to do so.

The head of the United States Tennis Association, which organises the US Open, said men "are badgering the umpire on the changeovers and nothing happens".

"We watch the guys do this all the time," USTA chief Katrina Adams said.

"There's no equality when it comes to what the men are doing to the chair umpires and what the women are doing, and I think there has to be some consistency across the board.

"I'm all about gender equality and I think when you look at that situation these are conversations that will be imposed in the next weeks. We have to treat each other fairly and the same."

Well, quite. And again, I am very interested in examples of where a man has called an umpire a liar and a thief. Because tbh, in many other sports, the player would be sent off and banned. Including men.

Those views were shared by BBC tennis presenter Sue Barker, who said: "I've sat courtside watching the men ranting at umpires and they haven't been given a violation."

Williams herself has ranted at umpires without this level of punishment, however this was a triple whammy, and the 'liar' and 'thief' comments cannot be ignored. If men have done this and got away with a triple whammy, then fair enough, present that.

None of the comments offer anything more than, she was punished, and that is not fair. To ignore the comments of a player calling the umpire a 'liar' and a 'thief' is irresponsible and pretty disgusting tbh. There would be uproar if men did this in most other sports.

Once you start throwing the officials under the bus to placate the " superstars " in any game you're on a very slippery slope.

Small headline in my " Guardian " today . " Williams, I'm fighting for women's rights "

Do me a favour - She's a bad loser, it's as simple as that.

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1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

Eddie Hemmings watches more rugby league than any of us.

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Quote from the Independent:

the Women’s Tennis Association said that Serena Williams “at all times plays with class and makes us proud”, the tournament stressed that Williams had “made it clear that she did not receive any coaching”, and Katrina Adams, the President of the United States Tennis Association, said the 23-times Grand Slam champion was “a credit to our sport”.

 

What a load of pretentious guff!

Williams said she didn't receive coaching, the coach said he did try and coach her, and others are using the 'coaching should be allowed' argument. Have some consistency!

And at all times playing with class and making them proud, and a credit to the sport - this is a player who has just smashed a racket, then abused an umpire.

If this was football with that kind of abuse, these same commentators would be looking down their nose at it. Tennis has some of the biggest prima donas in the sporting world and for governing bodies to leap to defence instead of condemning this kind of behaviour, they are playing a dangerous game.

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Cynical playing of the gender card by people just waiting to do it  for anything and from her to deflect attention from her behaviour . Just looks like someone not used to and not able to handle losing and so targeted anyone as an outlet for her anger and threw the toys out in a juvenile diva hissy fit . Then camouflages it in a cynical moral argument which is arguably worse . Purely about bad unacceptable behaviour whoever it’s from 

Edited by DavidM
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To much of this I’m the competitor so I can talk to you however I like and you cop it , but you dare as an official say or do anything to me . Started in football and crept out into sport and it needs dealing firmly with 

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2 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Sue Barker, Pat Cash, Billie Jean King, and many others have all suggested they were surprised (or stronger) by the umpiring decision/s.  Now, they watch a lot more tennis than me, so I presume they know what they are talking about.  

To be frank, those last two would do anything to get their name in a paper.

Stevo watched a lot more footy than me and so does Phil Rothfield. Those two are the biggest buffoons in Rugby League.

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57 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Quote from the Independent:

the Women’s Tennis Association said that Serena Williams “at all times plays with class and makes us proud”, the tournament stressed that Williams had “made it clear that she did not receive any coaching”, and Katrina Adams, the President of the United States Tennis Association, said the 23-times Grand Slam champion was “a credit to our sport”.

 

What a load of pretentious guff!

Williams said she didn't receive coaching, the coach said he did try and coach her, and others are using the 'coaching should be allowed' argument. Have some consistency!

And at all times playing with class and making them proud, and a credit to the sport - this is a player who has just smashed a racket, then abused an umpire.

If this was football with that kind of abuse, these same commentators would be looking down their nose at it. Tennis has some of the biggest prima donas in the sporting world and for governing bodies to leap to defence instead of condemning this kind of behaviour, they are playing a dangerous game.

Everybody agrees that it's a bad thing in football when they have a go at the referees. 

Serena should be allowed though because she's a tough competitor and has faced prejudice all her life. 

I can accept the umpire behaved in an inconsistent way. What I can't accept is that this is proof of sexism when so other factors can be at play. 

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11 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Everybody agrees that it's a bad thing in football when they have a go at the referees. 

Serena should be allowed though because she's a tough competitor and has faced prejudice all her life. 

I can accept the umpire behaved in an inconsistent way. What I can't accept is that this is proof of sexism when so other factors can be at play. 

She should be allowed because she’s faced tough circumstances ? Really . So do many others in sport  who behave a lot better and set an example 

Edited by DavidM

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1 hour ago, DavidM said:

She should be allowed because she’s faced tough circumstances ? Really . So do many others in sport  who behave a lot better and set an example 

According to Jonathon Liew it is understandable! 

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Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

According to Jonathon Liew it is understandable! 

That seems a dangerous premise to adhere to which shouldn’t really be encouraged . Most people will say they’ve faced some tough times getting to the top level and it leads to double standards and leeway given if you use it as an excuse 

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Serena Williams is a nut job, just because she lost, she is blaming the Umpire rather than herself. She knew she was losing, therefore she started spreading the blame. Declaring sexism is stupidity, when her opponent is the samevsex, although sexism  because of a temper tantrum, should be punished. "I'm allowed a temper tantrum because I had a baby 12 months ago", should be minus a set, never mind a game.

If you lose shut it. Don't use birth as an excuse.

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8 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I felt sorry for the japanese lass.

She wasn’t thinking about her .Even when she lost ‘ it’s all about me ‘.

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2 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

According to Jonathon Liew it is understandable! 

Liew was on Radio 2 a short time ago saying this. He acknowledged that she was rude, broke the rules, but we are unreasonable expecting her not to behave like this.

Seems a sensible viewpoint Jonathon!

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The Herald Sun, as classy as you'd expect. 

FWIW apart from union I can't think of a sport i give less of a about than tennis so I have no care either way about this issue. But referees in any sport can be inconsistent and contrary. The stats may prove there is some great difference between how men and women are umpired but individual examples of differences are easy to come by so it would need more than that.

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