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Bearman

Electric cars

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I called into Tesco this morning. As I was waiting to cross the carpark into the store a car I didnt recognise crossed my path.

On its side it had the words" Tesla Service Vehicle" it was certainly a nice looking car. It was this one in white

 https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/model-3

It just glided past me but was spookily quiet. I could not help but think of the potential danger to pedestrians who could be unaware of its presence.

 

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They aren’t that quiet! Quieter than a normal car but certainly not a “ghostly whisper”

regardless follow the green cross code and you’ll be fine

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Not a Tesla, but the daughter in laws dad has just bought a Toyota hybrid.  The battery charges when you brake or decelerate.  He brought it round to show me and it was very quiet.  Only sound when driving slowly was the tyres on the road.  The more popular these cars become, the more pedestrians will have to pay attention.

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1 hour ago, Bearman said:

I called into Tesco this morning. As I was waiting to cross the carpark into the store a car I didnt recognise crossed my path.

On its side it had the words" Tesla Service Vehicle" it was certainly a nice looking car. It was this one in white

 https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/model-3

It just glided past me but was spookily quiet. I could not help but think of the potential danger to pedestrians who could be unaware of its presence.

They have been running a race at the TT for electric bikes and they too are 'spookily' quiet. One lap only,39 1/4 miles as that's all the relevant battery size can manage. The race has been won by Mugen which is a offshoot of Honda who have spent millions on development up against entries from such as Queen's University Belfast & Nottingham University, quite a level playing  field I don't think! Tho they did set a lap of 100mph+ this year but it just sounds and seems wierd. Moto GP are having a electric class too at some European rounds next season also. For me scrap the silencers and bring back Castrol 'R', or even the 'stinkwheels' (2 strokes) in the minor classes.

 

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2 hours ago, RidingPie said:

They aren’t that quiet! Quieter than a normal car but certainly not a “ghostly whisper”

regardless follow the green cross code and you’ll be fine

I wear hearing aids and it was definitely quiet to me!

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4 minutes ago, Bearman said:

I wear hearing aids and it was definitely quiet to me!

Pardon?

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32 minutes ago, Bearman said:

I wear hearing aids and it was definitely quiet to me!

Still the first 2 points of the green cross code are stop and look. Doubly so if you wear a hearing aid. 

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3 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Tesla's look great.  Musk is a genius/idiot in varying measures but the cars have great features.

All of that, plus confidence trickster, too.

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12 hours ago, Exiled Townie said:

Not a Tesla, but the daughter in laws dad has just bought a Toyota hybrid.  The battery charges when you brake or decelerate.  He brought it round to show me and it was very quiet.  Only sound when driving slowly was the tyres on the road.  The more popular these cars become, the more pedestrians will have to pay attention.

Shouldn't that be the other way around, why should the vulnerable change their behaviour so that people in big lumps of metal and plastic can go at whatever speed they like, whenever they like and everyone else has to get out the way or be more wary of?

If drivers actually drove at slower speeds everywhere and thought more about and indeed respected other people's right to get where they are going and respect their safety (which you re lawfully bound to) then something like owning a quiet car is never going to be an issue. As it is the tyre noise is usually enough but I hate the fact that so many people make out that it's everyone else that has to change to take into account how those who are in killing machines go about their business.

I've thought about getting one but they are ridiculously heavy and hence do not have a decent range unless you buy something that are inordinately expensive or pay an even larger sum of money for the 'big' battery or even heavier hybrid types. A Nissan Leaf for example is heavier than my '01 Passat Estate, it's not just the batteries either. My old MKII Astra weighed 880kg, even the BMW i3 which is a tiny thing is 1260kg in its 60Kw/h variant. It's the weight (and of course aerodynamics) that kill the range on EVs

 

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Tesla drivers in the US tend to hide in the wind shadow of big trucks to reduce wind resistance and increase range. They also tend, it seems to drive slower than usual  for the same reason. 50% of UK Tesla owners report problems with their inordinately expensive vehicles, way above the figure for any other make.

Edited by JohnM

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I was looking at the Kona EV and the range is up to about 300 miles. Assuming that goes down to 200 on the motorway in the cold thats still more than the longest journey I've driven in over 2 years... Its got to the point where the range isn't a problem for me anymore

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5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Tesla drivers in the US tend to hide in the wind shadow of big trucks to reduce wind resistance and increase range. They also tend, it seems to drive slower than usual  for the same reason. 50% of UK Tesla owners report problems with their inordinately expensive vehicles, way above the figure for any other make.

Thats a fair point, I've heard tesla currently suffer hugely from reliability issues

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25 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Tesla drivers in the US tend to hide in the wind shadow of big trucks to reduce wind resistance and increase range. They also tend, it seems to drive slower than usual  for the same reason. 50% of UK Tesla owners report problems with their inordinately expensive vehicles, way above the figure for any other make.

Early adopters of any new technology always suffer a higher risk of problems, if people want a new gadget then they have to take the rough with the smooth.  Musk's increasing Bond villain tendencies aside, I think it should be thoroughly recommended and supported as every new iteration of a Tesla car is less damaging on the environment in its creation and more efficient in how it uses power. 

The wider scale problem though comes from us simply not having the energy grid in the UK to service more than a small portion of cars converting to some sort of plug in power.  The government, and not just ours it's a worldwide issue, are completely burying their head in the sand over this issue despite it being a genuine hope for reducing emissions, pollution and whole-economy energy use.

The pollution problem alone is worth the effort in encouraging continued investment in electric vehicles but it's also whole-system more efficient as well.  Per kW/h, a mile done on one of the most energy efficient diesel cannot match the worst performing plug-in electric car now for two reasons.  Reason 1 is that the national grid is far more efficient at turning fuel into power than any car and reason 2 is that the electric engines are way more efficient these days than the first mass-production ones we saw.  It's not even close when you look at whole-system energy use and then you also reduce the dependency we have on fossil fuels.

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Musk should really stick to his disruptive approach to big projects, where he has a good record. Yes, there is a place for fat-walleted early adopters and eco-snobs. However, in my view, the macro benefits of electric cars will only be delivered when an all electric car in the  Fiesta and Golf classes with a modest price premium is available.

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31 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Musk should really stick to his disruptive approach to big projects, where he has a good record. Yes, there is a place for fat-walleted early adopters and eco-snobs. However, in my view, the macro benefits of electric cars will only be delivered when an all electric car in the  Fiesta and Golf classes with a modest price premium is available.

I think plug-in hybrids are the future if they can sort out the electric range.  If they can get the range to 100 miles of commuter use, including with all normal stuff in the car activated, then it'll be a massive hit.  The problem of the plug-in hybrids is that the electric range is naff THEN the range of the combustion engine is naff.

My (self-paid) company car in the NHS was a Mitsubishi Outlander.  I couldn't get 250 miles out of fully charged battery and full tank without severe compromise, I never got more than 270 miles.  Compare that to my current 12 year old 5 series petrol BMW that I drove to Scotland (450 miles) and still had a quarter tank of fuel despite normal driving with the aircon on and the rest of the gadgets.  If I had a Tesla (or other fully electric car) then I simply couldn't do a similar journey as I'd be on sparks (fumes?) just north of Newcastle with no place to do a quick pit-stop refuel and no realistic alternative unless I wanted to overnight at one of the very rare places with overnight charging facilities.

If you had a good plug-in hybrid available with good range as a cheaper mass-market option then you could start to make every city centre electric only with the instant improvement in health and mortality rates.  Set it with new cars being forced to electric in the boundaries and a ten year taper for old cars to adjust before they're banned completely.  Motorways and rural roads could still be fossil fuel areas where the hybrid can recharge itself before the next town.

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I too had an outlander PHEV for 3 years

around town and commuting to work (16 miles each way  in current job, 22 in the previous job) I got in excess of 70 mpg, on a long motorway run that dropped to 30-35 depending on how much of a hurry I was in.

100 miles on battery power would make it a much more useable vehicle 

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Lets take the tax payers contribution out of the equation .

Everyone that runs an electric car also run a derv/petrol car .

Until we get a massive improvement range wise for electric cars and the price comes down the working man and women wont be driving around in one for a good while .

Im on a 50/50 blend of veg oil and derv in my T4 at the moment , when the price goes up I will go to 60/40 veg oil , runs well , fuel filter gets changed twice a year .    

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44 minutes ago, ckn said:

I think plug-in hybrids are the future if they can sort out the electric range.  If they can get the range to 100 miles of commuter use, including with all normal stuff in the car activated, then it'll be a massive hit.  The problem of the plug-in hybrids is that the electric range is naff THEN the range of the combustion engine is naff.

My (self-paid) company car in the NHS was a Mitsubishi Outlander.  I couldn't get 250 miles out of fully charged battery and full tank without severe compromise, I never got more than 270 miles.  Compare that to my current 12 year old 5 series petrol BMW that I drove to Scotland (450 miles) and still had a quarter tank of fuel despite normal driving with the aircon on and the rest of the gadgets.  If I had a Tesla (or other fully electric car) then I simply couldn't do a similar journey as I'd be on sparks (fumes?) just north of Newcastle with no place to do a quick pit-stop refuel and no realistic alternative unless I wanted to overnight at one of the very rare places with overnight charging facilities.

If you had a good plug-in hybrid available with good range as a cheaper mass-market option then you could start to make every city centre electric only with the instant improvement in health and mortality rates.  Set it with new cars being forced to electric in the boundaries and a ten year taper for old cars to adjust before they're banned completely.  Motorways and rural roads could still be fossil fuel areas where the hybrid can recharge itself before the next town.

Precisely. With Mitsubishi now being part of Nissault, or is it Rennan,  there is considerable electric and hybrid experience in the group.  The issue though is less one of design but of design-for-manufacture, low cost mass production, lifecycle management plus R and D into non-toxic lightweight mobile energy storage...for starters!

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43 minutes ago, Shadow said:

I too had an outlander PHEV for 3 years

around town and commuting to work (16 miles each way  in current job, 22 in the previous job) I got in excess of 70 mpg, on a long motorway run that dropped to 30-35 depending on how much of a hurry I was in.

100 miles on battery power would make it a much more useable vehicle 

When I had to go to a site in Colchester regularly, a 25 mile journey, this is the economy I'd get, 24 miles on pure battery and then a tiny bit of fuel to get me into the car park and onto their onsite 50kW charger system.  I think that was the best I'd ever get, when I had to go to my usual sites beyond EV range then the fuel economy would drop heavily.

IMG_2722.JPG

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I am in favour is electric rather than gas cars.  But, as a cyclist, I had to be extra aware of Audi's as they were quieter and BMWs because they were driven by BMW drivers.

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5 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I am in favour is electric rather than gas cars.  But, as a cyclist, I had to be extra aware of Audi's as they were quieter and BMWs because they were driven by BMW drivers.

Are you still in CPH.... I didn't think anyone could afford Audi's and BMW's out there because of the tax... everyone out there thought I was mega rich because I had an A4 when I was out there

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33 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

Are you still in CPH.... I didn't think anyone could afford Audi's and BMW's out there because of the tax... everyone out there thought I was mega rich because I had an A4 when I was out there

Haha!  I am right in the centre of Copenhagen.  Just outside my window is a posh new Tesla and a rather old and tatty Renault.

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